Rumor mill

[IthacaMatt]

Why would we build a stadium in the inner harbor? It would be repeating the same mistake twice. They built the baseball park on the north side and virtually everyone admits that should of went downtown. There's no way building a stadium on the inner harbor would allow guarantee you more parking for tailgating. Chances are if anything the parking to be developed would be parking garages just like we have at the university now, and because you basically have zero control of a structure you don't own, you lose some of the advantages you get with a home field/court such as the ability to practice there whenever you want. Also we are trying to grow the fan base. Not turn off current and future students for years to come because a bunch of 30-50 year old
men don't want to come to campus.

Because of highway access to the Inner Harbor from both 81 and 690.

The reason nobody goes to Chiefs games is not because of the location, it's because of the major league affiliation they chose. If they were affiliated with the Mets or Yankees, there would be lots and lots more fans at the games. Nobody gives a rat's ass about Washington or Toronto in this town.

 

[xc84]

Students make up almost zero of the attendees at games, and most of them, by a huge margin, leave the area after graduation.

That's why you make it better and keep it on campus.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Destiny did take down one building right next to the liquor store this past spring. There are still at least 2 giant vacant warehouses further down on N. Clinton by Catawba. Since they've put in the new office building on one corner and the new apts. on the other corner across from these vacant buildings something has to be in the works for them. Not sure of the owners

Len Montreal owns some of that property and has been a pioneer, building in that area before others have begun to do so.

 

[xc84]

Because of highway access.

The reason nobody goes to Chiefs games is not because of the location, it's because of the major league affiliation they chose. If they were affiliated with the Mets or Yankees, there would be lots and lots more fans at the games. Nobody gives a rat's ass about Washington or Toronto in this town.

But people like downtown baseball stadiums. That's why they work (after work). The decision to keep it where the old one stood was a bad one on par with the decision to renovate the War Memorial arena instead of replacing it.

 

[IthacaMatt]

My only issue with the fairgrounds is that the area around the Fair is just awful. Apologies to anyone living in or near Solvay..but that area seems to have given up on trying to make their town look nice. Its depressing as hell. I would rather not put a stadium next to Crucible steel...imagine the pictures the broadcasts would show of the smokestacks? Gross.

Crucible Steel looks like a Nazi death camp. Christ, tear the thing down, at least the rolling mills bordering directly on 690. They haven't been in use for years.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Students make up almost zero of the attendees at games, and most of them, by a huge margin, leave the area after graduation.

Zero? Really? I think this year for football they've done a pretty good job, and we should do everything we can to get them to the games. Have you been to a basketball during winter break? It's like a morgue in there without the students. Poor excuse that people move, there's never been more people in Onondaga County. I didn't move and I'm not from here. I have 5 friends I went to school with that live within driving distance and make the games every week. A few of us even go to all the basketball games. Some of you are living in the 1990's still. People aren't leaving Syracuse like they used to. It's not going to happen anyway, and it shouldn't. Building a stadium in the inner harbor satisfies the "old guard" and that is it. Leadership(whoever that may be), needs to take into account everything when planning for the future. Satisfying the "average white guy" is not planning for the future.

 

[IthacaMatt]

That's why you make it better and keep it on campus.

Except that doesn't address the fact that students need JOBS to keep them in this area after graduation, and unless you work in health care, education or government, there aren't any freaking jobs in the town anymore. So screw the concern about the students being our "future fans". They are fans only in the Kaiser UEO sense of moving away to NYC or Washington or Boston and then talking about what a dump Syracuse is all the time, while they seldom if ever come back for games. It's the townies that built these sports programs, not the students. It's been that way since the 1950s.

 

[IthacaMatt]

But people like downtown baseball stadiums. That's why they work (after work). The decision to keep it where the old one stood was a bad one on par with the decision to renovate the War Memorial arena instead of replacing it.

There's no room downtown, unless you move it into the edge of the ghetto on the Southwest Side.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Because of highway access to the Inner Harbor from both 81 and 690.

The reason nobody goes to Chiefs games is not because of the location, it's because of the major league affiliation they chose. If they were affiliated with the Mets or Yankees, there would be lots and lots more fans at the games. Nobody gives a rat's ass about Washington or Toronto in this town.

I disagree, affiliate is only a small part of it. I'd be more apt to walk to go to games if the stadium is somewhere in Armory Square, than drive out of my way to go to the North Side where there literally is nothing else to do.

 

[GoSU96]

It would guarantee you better tailgating in the immediate future. The first thing to go when there is new development is parking lots. I started going to SU only 12 years ago. You know how much more parking was on campus at that time? All of it is gone now due to new buildings. The same thing would happen at the inner harbor.

The building of a new stadium at the inner harbor would satisfy your 30-60 year old age group, but it's not going to attract younger fans to build the fan base. That was the chief's mistake in the mid 90's. They made their existing fans happy, nobody new was attracted to the stadium. Theres a few of you that want a stadium at the inner harbor, but I don't think its a majority.

Theres been a slight shift away from suburbia in the recent past. I'm not saying the inner harbor is suburbia, but it has that type of feel. Cities(even Syracuse) are seeing increases in population in recent years as the suburban flight has shifted back toward living in cities. Any new construction should be marketed toward getting a younger crowd to build for the future. Anyway I'm done debating this, because it's not going to happen anyway, and it shouldn't. There's a lot better uses for public funds to help the economy than a sports arena. I've got all the confidence in the world the current administration on the hill knows what they are doing.

The last thing that would go in the area are those big surface lots.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Zero? Really? I think this year for football they've done a pretty good job, and we should do everything we can to get them to the games. Have you been to a basketball during winter break? It's like a morgue in there without the students. Poor excuse that people move, there's never been more people in Onondaga County. I didn't move and I'm not from here. I have 5 friends I went to school with that live within driving distance and make the games every week. A few of us even go to all the basketball games. Some of you are living in the 1990's still. People aren't leaving Syracuse like they used to. It's not going to happen anyway, and it shouldn't. Building a stadium in the inner harbor satisfies the "old guard" and that is it. Leadership(whoever that may be), needs to take into account everything when planning for the future. Satisfying the "average white guy" is not planning for the future.

I work with student start-up businesses at the Tech Garden, which is the area's main initiative to keep students from leaving the region after graduation. While some students do stay, it's a very small percentage. There just aren't enough good paying jobs here for them to be able to see a future, pay off their student debt, etc. Poverty is spreading, not declining. It used to be that the South Side was the ghetto. Then the West Side, and now the North Side. The City is in terrible shape and getting worse. It is hard for the hospitals to recruit doctors to this area because there are so few decent job opportunities for their spouses. I appreciate your optimism, but it is at odds with the facts. Syracuse has more people living in poverty than Detroit; it's the worst in the entire nation. Get your head around that for a minute.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I disagree, affiliate is only a small part of it. I'd be more apt to walk to go to games if the stadium is somewhere in Armory Square, than drive out of my way to go to the North Side where there literally is nothing else to do.

If you go to a baseball game, what else is it you are looking to do afterwards? If you want to go to bars, they are right across the highway at Destiny. If they built a stadium downtown, they would either try to cram it into a couple square blocks where the Kennedy Projects used to be, or they would put it on the other side of the overhead railroad tracks where Onondaga Street leaves downtown. I suppose they could also look at the property on the North/East side of Fayette St where they park the police vehicles, but there are railroad tracks on the other side of that lot. Not sure if they are still in use. In either event, these are not necessarily neighborhoods where you are going to want to be walking at 11 PM after a game lets out.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I disagree, affiliate is only a small part of it. I'd be more apt to walk to go to games if the stadium is somewhere in Armory Square, than drive out of my way to go to the North Side where there literally is nothing else to do.

I used to live here and remember when the Chiefs were the Yankees' triple A affiliate. In that old dump of a stadium, we would draw 10,000 people, and people used to talk about the Chiefs all the time. You might think it's a small deal, but that's probably because you are too young to remember when the Chiefs were part of an organization that nearly everyone was a fan of.

 

[Millhouse]

If you go to a baseball game, what else is it you are looking to do afterwards? If you want to go to bars, they are right across the highway at Destiny. If they built a stadium downtown, they would either try to cram it into a couple square blocks where the Kennedy Projects used to be, or they would put it on the other side of the overhead railroad tracks where Onondaga Street leaves downtown. I suppose they could also look at the property on the North/East side of Fayette St where they park the police vehicles, but there are railroad tracks on the other side of that lot. Not sure if they are still in use. In either event, these are not necessarily neighborhoods where you are going to want to be walking at 11 PM after a game lets out.

people go to games and go home. there are a million examples of stadiums hoping that people will go to a game and go patronize a bunch of businesses and somehow magically have more money so that they won't have to cut back on other entertainment some other day

 

[xc84]

Except that doesn't address the fact that students need JOBS to keep them in this area after graduation, and unless you work in health care, education or government, there aren't any freaking jobs in the town anymore. So screw the concern about the students being our "future fans". They are fans only in the Kaiser UEO sense of moving away to NYC or Washington or Boston and then talking about what a dump Syracuse is all the time, while they seldom if ever come back for games. It's the townies that built these sports programs, not the students. It's been that way since the 1950s.

I agree. The placement of the stadium does not address the need for more jobs in Syracuse/CNY.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I work with student start-up businesses at the Tech Garden, which is the area's main initiative to keep students from leaving the region after graduation. While some students do stay, it's a very small percentage. There just aren't enough good paying jobs here for them to be able to see a future, pay off their student debt, etc. Poverty is spreading, not declining. It used to be that the South Side was the ghetto. Then the West Side, and now the North Side. The City is in terrible shape and getting worse. It is hard for the hospitals to recruit doctors to this area because there are so few decent job opportunities for their spouses. I appreciate your optimism, but it is at odds with the facts. Syracuse has more people living in poverty than Detroit; it's the worst in the entire nation. Get your head around that for a minute.

I get it man you hate downtown. You're spitting the same story out from the 1990's. I work downtown and my company employs 800 people in the city, and I'm not in healthcare, education, or government. The people moving is false. There have never been MORE people living in Onondaga County than at this time. Your right on the poverty front in those specific areas, but you're leaving out the areas Syracuse is doing well in. Maybe you should have a conversation with Bob Doucette and ask him how he's surviving downtown, and while were at it they could of built a stadium where they put the stupid waste water treatment plant near the trolley lot.

 

[xc84]

There's no room downtown, unless you move it into the edge of the ghetto on the Southwest Side.

there was a site planned and it was large enough. That ship has sailed. The opportunity has vanished.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I used to live here and remember when the Chiefs were the Yankees' triple A affiliate. In that old dump of a stadium, we would draw 10,000 people, and people used to talk about the Chiefs all the time. You might think it's a small deal, but that's probably because you are too young to remember when the Chiefs were part of an organization that nearly everyone was a fan of.

You're right I am young(30), but I don't like 50 year olds making decisions that only benefit said 50 year olds, like it we always do in this country. I also know that when the Chiefs were the yankees affiliate the North Side was actually a good place to live, now it is not. You all are leaving a big part of this out when you say you don't care about the students. They are your future donors.

 

[shandeezy7]

I work with student start-up businesses at the Tech Garden, which is the area's main initiative to keep students from leaving the region after graduation. While some students do stay, it's a very small percentage. There just aren't enough good paying jobs here for them to be able to see a future, pay off their student debt, etc. Poverty is spreading, not declining. It used to be that the South Side was the ghetto. Then the West Side, and now the North Side. The City is in terrible shape and getting worse. It is hard for the hospitals to recruit doctors to this area because there are so few decent job opportunities for their spouses. I appreciate your optimism, but it is at odds with the facts. Syracuse has more people living in poverty than Detroit; it's the worst in the entire nation. Get your head around that for a minute.

I get what you are saying, but your wording and facts are slightly inaccurate. Syracuse does not have the highest poverty rate in the nation. It has the highest rate of poverty among blacks and hispanics. Certainly nothing to hang your hat on, and something that needs to be remedied immediately.

Also, your statement that Syrause has more people living in poverty than Detroit is also inaccurate. This study says that 57.6% of the black population in the Detroit metro area lives in poverty. The 2010 Census estimated over 700,000 black people living in the Detroit Metro, meaning over 400,000 of them live in poverty. While the rate of poverty for blacks is higher in Syracuse, the actual numbers are nowhere close to Detroit.

 

[xc84]

I used to live here and remember when the Chiefs were the Yankees' triple A affiliate. In that old dump of a stadium, we would draw 10,000 people, and people used to talk about the Chiefs all the time. You might think it's a small deal, but that's probably because you are too young to remember when the Chiefs were part of an organization that nearly everyone was a fan of.

While I agree the Yankee affiliation was better, the Chiefs also had some good teams themselves and there always seemed to be a name player down there for a bit. In addition, I recall the games they had where they actually played the Yankees. Those days are gone now..and more competition for attendees ...and baseball itself is not what it once was. Downtown would have been a captive audience after work.

 

[OttoMets]

I'm pretty sure Congel owns the land at that spot on N. Clinton. It's his crew that moving the dirt piles from the Destiny overflow parking lots. I've got to say they've done a ton of work over the summer and they are putting in drainage and what looks to me to be sewers along the street. It's been closed for about the past month and not even close to being done. It certainly will be interesting to see . what gets announced for that plot of land. I can't imagine that it sits empty.

Shells affiliated with Pyramid do own all five parcels on that block, but all the earthwork is just relocation of dirt from the original mall construction site that may or may not still be contaminated. That's why they're putting in all that drainage tile and the retention basins. Pretty much aesthetic work, with the bonus that it'll improve visibility of the mall for those driving from the harbor hotels.

As for the stadium, it'd be a neat location but a tight fit - that block is only a little wider (from Solar to Clinton) than the current Dome site.

 

[OttoMets]

...The City is in terrible shape and getting worse. It is hard for the hospitals to recruit doctors to this area because there are so few decent job opportunities for their spouses. I appreciate your optimism, but it is at odds with the facts. Syracuse has more people living in poverty than Detroit; it's the worst in the entire nation. Get your head around that for a minute.

I get it man you hate downtown. Your spitting the same story out from the 1990's. I work downtown and my company employs 800 people in the city, and I'm not in healthcare, education, or government. The people moving is false. There have never been MORE people living in Onondaga County than at this time. Your right on the poverty front in those specific areas, but you're leaving out the areas Syracuse is doing well in. Maybe you should have a conversation with Bob Doucette and ask him how he's surviving downtown, and while were at it they could of built a stadium where they put the stupid waste water treatment plant near the trolley lot.

The difficulty in recruiting white-collar workers is very real, but the common rationale is something that jibes with what 0307 has been saying, and what I think Matt is missing.

When friends and colleagues struggle to get talented attorneys, doctors, and architects, they tell me that they hear the same thing: Syracuse is a backward place with a lower quality of life than peer cities. Why come to Syracuse with its small walkable downtown and auto-oriented periphery and suburbs when Pittsburgh, Columbus, or (yikes) Richmond are choices (to say nothing of New York, Chicago, Boston, D.C., et al.)?

I like Syracuse quite a bit (as you all can surely tell) and will defend it, but it's taken baby steps while other mid-sized cities have made real strides in the things that matter to millennials. And we've got intelligent people with good values on here waving the flag for building a stadium in a totally car-dependent area and not understanding that many of us would like to walk from a baseball game to a bar?

You two are good posters, but I think you're two ships in the night on this matter. 0307's worth listening to on this one: Syracuse and Central New York are held back by locals' (and leaders') unwillingness to embrace change.

 

[Millhouse]

The difficulty in recruiting white-collar workers is very real, but the common rationale is something that jibes with what 0307 has been saying, and what I think Matt is missing.

When friends and colleagues struggle to get talented attorneys, doctors, and architects, they tell me that they hear the same thing: Syracuse is a backward place with a lower quality of life than peer cities. Why come to Syracuse with its small walkable downtown and auto-oriented periphery and suburbs when Pittsburgh, Columbus, or (yikes) Richmond are choices (to say nothing of New York, Chicago, Boston, D.C., et al.)?

I like Syracuse quite a bit (as you all can surely tell) and will defend it, but it's taken baby steps while other mid-sized cities have made real strides in the things that matter to millennials. And we've got intelligent people with good values on here waving the flag for building a stadium in a totally car-dependent area and not understanding that many of us would like to walk from a baseball game to a bar?

You two are good posters, but I think you're two ships in the night on this matter. 0307's worth listening to on this one: Syracuse and Central New York are held back by locals' (and leaders') unwillingness to embrace change.

you have a unique set of friends and collegues.

normal people don't talk about auto-oriented peripheries

 

[Cusefan0307]

The difficulty in recruiting white-collar workers is very real, but the common rationale is something that jibes with what 0307 has been saying, and what I think Matt is missing.

When friends and colleagues struggle to get talented attorneys, doctors, and architects, they tell me that they hear the same thing: Syracuse is a backward place with a lower quality of life than peer cities. Why come to Syracuse with its small walkable downtown and auto-oriented periphery and suburbs when Pittsburgh, Columbus, or (yikes) Richmond are choices (to say nothing of New York, Chicago, Boston, D.C., et al.)?

I like Syracuse quite a bit (as you all can surely tell) and will defend it, but it's taken baby steps while other mid-sized cities have made real strides in the things that matter to millennials. And we've got intelligent people with good values on here waving the flag for building a stadium in a totally car-dependent area and not understanding that many of us would like to walk from a baseball game to a bar?

You two are good posters, but I think you're two ships in the night on this matter. 0307's worth listening to on this one: Syracuse and Central New York are held back by locals' (and leaders') unwillingness to embrace change.

Thank's man. Great post. I'm trying to get more involved in the city, one of the reasons I'm looking to buy a house in Strathmore. And not to call out IthacaMatt, because he is a good poster, but alot of what he is saying, I get the same speaking to older locals when introducing new ideas. Alot of the pushback we deal with here is internally. I think some people have been beaten down, they don't think Syracuse can turn around, but I already see it happening in my area, and it can happen if we have the proper planning moving forward. I wish leaders in Syracuse focused on the City more instead of making things easier for people commuting to and from the Northern Suburbs.

 

[OttoMets]

Thank's man. Great post. I'm trying to get more involved in the city, one of the reasons I'm looking to buy a house in Strathmore. And not to call out IthacaMatt, because he is a good poster, but alot of what he is saying, I get the same speaking to older locals when introducing new ideas. Alot of the pushback we deal with here is internally. I think some people have been beaten down, they don't think Syracuse can turn around, but I already see it happening in my area, and it can happen if we have the proper planning moving forward. I wish leaders in Syracuse focused on the City more instead of making things easier for people commuting to and from the Northern Suburbs.

Thanks. Strathmore's nice, very involved neighborhood association - good choice. Putting aside the city/suburb thing for a minute (which is sad, because the city's a very nice place to live -- and it'd be a better place to live with a larger tax base and a couple thousand more middle-class families with children in the schools -- with a ridiculous perception problem), the resistance to change is frustrating.

Believe me, I hate change in most areas of my life. But good urban planning and transportation policy both matter. A lot. There's a reason D.C. and New York have gone from hellholes (ok, hyperbole in the case of New York) to paragons in terms of quality of life in the course of a generation. And it's not that nebulous "jobs" problem (though, again, Central New York could stand to improve employment opportunities for locals). We can't set policy based on ideas from the 1950s and scratch our heads and wonder why we've fallen behind our peers. Need to open our eyes and recognize what's spurred revitalization elsewhere.