Rumor mill

[retro44]

Contamination?

you nailed a lot of it......

 

[KellySyracuse]

That lot has also been talked about with the building trades. This issue has not been settled like some are saying.

which lot, by N. Clinton?

 

[retro44]

which lot, by N. Clinton?

Well a few years ago they were looking hard at where the old wharehouses were near harbor view liquors.

I like the destiny location better just for tailgating in bad weather as there are many good bar choices in the mall.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Well a few years ago they were looking hard at where the old wharehouses were near harbor view liquors.

I like the destiny location better just for tailgating in bad weather as there are many good bar choices in the mall.

Destiny did take down one building right next to the liquor store this past spring. There are still at least 2 giant vacant warehouses further down on N. Clinton by Catawba. Since they've put in the new office building on one corner and the new apts. on the other corner across from these vacant buildings something has to be in the works for them. Not sure of the owners

 

[AZOrange]

the dirt at one time had been contaminated, they had to wait x number of years for bacteria to eat the contamination or something along those lines before they could move it. Pretty sure I read that on Syracuse.com, I'll see if I can find the link.

Yeah moving a lot of dirt for no apparent reason always makes me think about this.

 

[AZOrange]

you nailed a lot of it...

Ugh. Hope it's not too bad.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Yeah moving a lot of dirt for no apparent reason always makes me think about this.

here it is:

http://www.syracuse.com/business-news/index.ssf/2015/05/destiny_usa_moving_dirt_again.html

"Aitken said the fill will help prepare the lot, directly across Solar Street from the inner harbor, for future development. The harbor is being redeveloped by COR Development, of Fayetteville, into a hotel, residential and retail center. Destiny has not said what it plans to do with the land across Solar Street.

Tests supervised by state regulators have shown that the use of bacteria to eat up the petroleum in the soil over the past few years have resulted in the dirt being clean enough to be used as fill, Aitken said."

 

[brandokc]

I'll be shocked if the tunnel goes through. But regardless I think it would be a BS move to relocate an interstate when businesses have located and invested strategically because of its proximity.

State and liberals can spin it all they want - but the bottom line is the state will look for any angle to justify Erie boulevard 2.0.

This is the kind of bassackwards thinking that has relegated Syracuse to a backwater punchline.
I live in a city that has more boulevards than Paris. Erie Boulevard isn't a Boulevard, it's an eyesore.

Look into the future, no one is building viaducts through cities anymore, just like no one other than Congel is trying to build megamalls.

This is a render of what the new Boulevard would look like.

 

[retro44]

Ugh. Hope it's not too bad.

Well you are not going to find bugs living in that dirt. I worked on the mall when they first built it and I can tell you for a fact they used contaminated water from a retaining pond to spray fire ent insulation they were using on the steel beams when they were supposed to be filtering the dirt/groundwater as it was cheaper to pay the fines than to keep changing the filters. Stone Ward from the DEC tried to deal with them and correct the problem,but his own bosses came down hard on him. It made the news also.We use to watch them take trucks full of contaminated dirt that was supposed to be treated and drive out the Hiawatha street gate and drive around to park st. gate and use it s back fill on that side...vice versa. We saw that as we were putting and working on the rooftop units...clear view from the roof. Comical and the state knew it was going on.

Enough of this for now

 

[KellySyracuse]

This is the kind of bassackwards thinking that has relegated Syracuse to a backwater punchline.
I live in a city that has more boulevards than Paris. Erie Boulevard isn't a Boulevard, it's an eyesore.

Look into the future, no one is building viaducts through cities anymore, just like no one other than Congel is trying to build megamalls.

This is a render of what the new Boulevard would look like.

not to mention the buildings that would need to be razed to accommodate a tunnel or new viaduct.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Well that's just crazy. There are at least six and up to eight large parking lots across Bear Street. That set up would absolutely guarantee you better tailgating.

Practice is taken care of with the IPF and Melo.

As for control its something you work out with the operator as the major tenant. You might lose total control but you also shed expenses while keeping revenues.

It would guarantee you better tailgating in the immediate future. The first thing to go when there is new development is parking lots. I started going to SU only 12 years ago. You know how much more parking was on campus at that time? All of it is gone now due to new buildings. The same thing would happen at the inner harbor.

The building of a new stadium at the inner harbor would satisfy your 30-60 year old age group, but it's not going to attract younger fans to build the fan base. That was the chief's mistake in the mid 90's. They made their existing fans happy, nobody new was attracted to the stadium. Theres a few of you that want a stadium at the inner harbor, but I don't think its a majority.

Theres been a slight shift away from suburbia in the recent past. I'm not saying the inner harbor is suburbia, but it has that type of feel. Cities(even Syracuse) are seeing increases in population in recent years as the suburban flight has shifted back toward living in cities. Any new construction should be marketed toward getting a younger crowd to build for the future. Anyway I'm done debating this, because it's not going to happen anyway, and it shouldn't. There's a lot better uses for public funds to help the economy than a sports arena. I've got all the confidence in the world the current administration on the hill knows what they are doing.

 

[Macky44]

Why would we build a stadium in the inner harbor? It would be repeating the same mistake twice. They built the baseball park on the north side and virtually everyone admits that should of went downtown. There's no way building a stadium on the inner harbor would allow guarantee you more parking for tailgating. Chances are if anything the parking to be developed would be parking garages just like we have at the university now, and because you basically have zero control of a structure you don't own, you lose some of the advantages you get with a home field/court such as the ability to practice there whenever you want. Also we are trying to grow the fan base. Not turn off current and future students for years to come because a bunch of 30-50 year old
men don't want to come to campus.

The baseball stadium was only a mistake because they stuck it behind the train/bus station. You should know as much as anyone since you jog on the trail daily, that the City has clearly been working towards having every section connect and walkable. Onondaga Lake trail - Destiny - Franklin Square - Armory Square - Everson/War Memorial area - SU Campus. Its a work in progress but its going to be a beautiful thing. The 81-project is a tiny piece of that.

 

[Macky44]

I'll be shocked if the tunnel goes through. But regardless I think it would be a BS move to relocate an interstate when businesses have located and invested strategically because of its proximity.

State and liberals can spin it all they want - but the bottom line is the state will look for any angle to justify Erie boulevard 2.0.

Please tell me that your solution isnt REBUILDING that damn thing. Please be smarter than that.

 

[Macky44]

That lot has also been talked about with the building trades. This issue has not been settled like some are saying.

I know for a fact the Building trades are pushing hard for a new stadium at the Fairgrounds,doesn't mean it will happen,but there is a big push for a new stadium period and the Inner Harbor was also being thrown around.

My only issue with the fairgrounds is that the area around the Fair is just awful. Apologies to anyone living in or near Solvay..but that area seems to have given up on trying to make their town look nice. Its depressing as hell. I would rather not put a stadium next to Crucible steel...imagine the pictures the broadcasts would show of the smokestacks? Gross.

 

[Macky44]

This is the kind of bassackwards thinking that has relegated Syracuse to a backwater punchline.
I live in a city that has more boulevards than Paris. Erie Boulevard isn't a Boulevard, it's an eyesore.

Look into the future, no one is building viaducts through cities anymore, just like no one other than Congel is trying to build megamalls.

This is a render of what the new Boulevard would look like.

This is exactly what im hoping for. I wish we could tear up Erie Blvd and rebuild the Erie Canal...put all the same restaurants and bars / shopping etc that is on the blvd but put some pedestrian bridges over the canal. It obviously would never happen..but a man can dream.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

oh god, when I read that Driscoll was going to be the Rt 81 decider a shot of despair went through me. A tunnel is the worst plan yet, all because Congel's mall when half those stores won't be there in 25 years when a tunnel finally gets completed.

People said the original mall would fail.

 

[Macky44]

Well you are not going to find bugs living in that dirt. I worked on the mall when they first built it and I can tell you for a fact they used contaminated water from a retaining pond to spray fire . . . . . . ent insulation they were using on the steel beams when they were supposed to be filtering the dirt/groundwater as it was cheaper to pay the fines than to keep changing the filters. Stone Ward from the DEC tried to deal with them and correct the problem,but his own bosses came down hard on him. It made the news also.We use to watch them take trucks full of contaminated dirt that was supposed to be treated and drive out the Hiawatha street gate and drive around to park st. gate and use it s back fill on that side...vice versa. We saw that as we were putting and working on the rooftop units...clear view from the roof. Comical and the state knew it was going on.

Enough of this for now

Makes me wonder what the trucks were truly spraying on the Destiny lots throughout the summer..i would constantly see white tanker trucks labeled WATER on the side and they would just be spraying everyday on top of the empty parking lot...all i could think was " there is no way thats just water, and if it is..why are they doing that?"

 

[CuseLegacy]

Please tell me that your solution isnt REBUILDING that damn thing. Please be smarter than that.

 

[Macky44]

I was referring to 81 being rebuilt, sorry for the confusion.

 

[KellySyracuse]

People said the original mall would fail.

yes they did, I wasn't one of them.

I just don't think it's a smart move to use Destiny advertising as the basis of how Rt 81 gets built. Congel's contention that his tenants moved into Destiny because their signage can be seen by Rt 81 traffic should not be the reason for keeping the highway. I'm saying I don't think it's a good plan to base the city's future for the next 100 years on what Congel or his tenants want considering most probably won't be around that long. If anything the city should be looking to SU and weaving that institution more into the city considering they are the largest employer and will likely still be around 100 years from now.

 

[Cusefan0307]

yes they did, I wasn't one of them.

I just don't think it's a smart move to use Destiny advertising as the basis of how Rt 81 gets built. Congel's contention that his tenants moved into Destiny because their signage can be seen by Rt 81 traffic should not be the reason for keeping the highway. I'm saying I don't think it's a good plan to base the city's future for the next 100 years on what Congel or his tenants want considering most probably won't be around that long. If anything the city should be looking to SU and weaving that institution more into the city considering they are the largest employer and will likely still be around 100 years from now.

The mall still could fail, but it could succeed also. It's one of the very few of it's kind left in the country. Congel's mall is only part of the equation for 81 (i hope, although he originally made his bed with Driscoll). The decision on what to do with 81 should be made with the city/university development in mind first. With that in mind, I don't think 81 is going away, but I don't think we will end up with another elevated highway again.

 

[xc84]

The mall still could fail, but it could succeed also. It's one of the very few of it's kind left in the country. Congel's mall is only part of the equation for 81 (i hope, although he originally made his bed with Driscoll). The decision on what to do with 81 should be made with the city/university development in mind first. With that in mind, I don't think 81 is going away, but I don't think we will end up with another elevated highway again.

Even if 81 is re-routed, the road that is now 81 in front of the mall will remain a highway and not be an "at-grade" boulevard until closer to downtown.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Not sure how to read the Driscoll appointment. "Pretty likely" to go with the tunnel may be an overreaction unless you have some inside information. My impression is the DOT will do everything they can to justify the cheapest option.

Regardless of what happens with 81 I think destiny needs to worry about leasing the expansion first before they entertain other ideas. Maybe they have to scale back the outlet strategy or something because it's been 3-4 years and they still have about 200k sq feet of empty space in the addition.

But put a new stadium down the street and you'd see a who's who of A list tenants fighting for a spot in the mall. The harbor area/lakefront would reach critical mass that would sustain continued development.

Driscoll was Congel's lap dog with the tax credit for the expansion and its approval over fierce opposition by the Common Council and some in County Gov't. Driscoll and Mahoney were supportive, Miner and DeFrancisco were staunchly against any more tax giveaways.

With Driscoll saying in the newspaper the other day that basically he gets to make the decision on Route 81's future, coupled with his history, it sounds to me like he's going to make sure that 81 North extends to the Mall and continues to bisect the City.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Why would we build a stadium in the inner harbor? It would be repeating the same mistake twice. They built the baseball park on the north side and virtually everyone admits that should of went downtown. There's no way building a stadium on the inner harbor would allow guarantee you more parking for tailgating. Chances are if anything the parking to be developed would be parking garages just like we have at the university now, and because you basically have zero control of a structure you don't own, you lose some of the advantages you get with a home field/court such as the ability to practice there whenever you want. Also we are trying to grow the fan base. Not turn off current and future students for years to come because a bunch of 30-50 year old
men don't want to come to campus.

Students make up almost zero of the attendees at games, and most of them, by a huge margin, leave the area after graduation.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Contamination?

The mall has been there for 25 years already. They cleaned up the oil city site years ago.