"season could start to slip away." | Syracusefan.com

"season could start to slip away."

Fjoinkay

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Those are Rahme's words not mine. I agree with everything else he wrote in the article about the Toledo game, but I'm struggling to wrap my head around that phrase. Sure, if SU loses to Toledo it will feel like a punch in the stomach and it might even be embarrassing even though most people realize that Toledo is a good football team.

SU's 'season could start to slip away'? I thought the team goal was to win the conference? Toledo is in the MAC. Again, sure the way SU is playing right now winning the conference is a long shot, but they haven't played a conference game yet. Heck, a loss to Toledo could be the turning point to a great season. We don't know! I see no need for doom and gloom with a 2-1 record in September.
 

IthacaBarrel

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When you don't recruit above average, you are going to rely on development. Thus, when you lose a lot of seniors a program like Syracuse will not just replace them very easiliy. unless the replacements have a few years in the program. The next 3 games will tell everyone where we are at. I think I have a feeling and it ain't good. Tomorrow is the first test and if the secondary can't figure out a way to plug a few holes we will be 2-4 before you know it. Tulane is playing better than expected as well.

I think many here have or had unrealistice expectations for this season after riding the off season high of the Pinstripe Bowl. Syracuse hasn't recruited well enough to just replace what they lost last year. Like I said, Holmes and Merk were fantastic after the UW game last year
 

Kalima45

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I think this season is the effect of losing those 20-30 players a few years ago. Most of those guys would be juniors and seniors by now. It's tough to have a good season with alot of freshman, redshirt freshman and sophmores out on the field. I really do think we are poised to have a good year next season and be in contention for a championship with the Big East if we are still in it or be in the upper half of the ACC if that were to happen.
 

IthacaBarrel

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I think this season is the effect of losing those 20-30 players a few years ago. Most of those guys would be juniors and seniors by now. It's tough to have a good season with alot of freshman, redshirt freshman and sophmores out on the field. I really do think we are poised to have a good year next season and be in contention for a championship with the Big East if we are still in it or be in the upper half of the ACC if that were to happen.

a lot of truth there
 

GoSU96

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I think this season is the effect of losing those 20-30 players a few years ago. Most of those guys would be juniors and seniors by now. It's tough to have a good season with alot of freshman, redshirt freshman and sophmores out on the field. I really do think we are poised to have a good year next season and be in contention for a championship with the Big East if we are still in it or be in the upper half of the ACC if that were to happen.

Which kids, which units?

And if they are still here the better talent isn't. They aren't here because for the most part they weren't going to see the field.

The ONLY units that are young are DT and LB, and they have done well. There are younger players seeing time in the secondary, but that's a function of injury.
 

OttoinGrotto

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Which kids, which units?

And if they are still here the better talent isn't. They aren't here because for the most part they weren't going to see the field.

The ONLY units that are young are DT and LB, and they have done well. There are younger players seeing time in the secondary, but that's a function of injury.
At RB I would think Averin Collier could be a difference maker.

At OT I think Speller could have been a difference maker. I'd feel much better about Pugh/Speller than Pugh/Hay.

At WR Trey Fairchild would have helped.

Defensive side it's a lot harder to name names because the names don't stick out as much compared to the guys you look for on offense.
 

Fjoinkay

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I agree that the next 3 games will tell us a lot, and I also agree that the loss of all those kids a few years ago hurt. I thought about that last night when I saw an ESPN highlight of David Legree-not that Legree would see the field here but that the kid had talent and so did several of those other players who left the program. But that sort of thing happens with coaching changes. And next year is the year where higher expectations are reasonable, and I think next year at some point SU will have a chance to crack the top 25.

But right now even though I think a loss to Toledo could be a huge blow to this team, I think it's premature in the pre-game analysis to say that a loss means the season could start to slip away. It's also true that a lot of good things could happen in the final 8 games including a healthy Chandler Jones, the offense scoring more points, the secondary growing into it's potential... And if SU ends up going 6-6 instead of 7-5 or better and goes to a bowl game does that mean the season slipped away?
 

Jerry Fairchild

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At RB I would think Averin Collier could be a difference maker.

At OT I think Speller could have been a difference maker. I'd feel much better about Pugh/Speller than Pugh/Hay.

At WR Trey Fairchild would have helped.

Defensive side it's a lot harder to name names because the names don't stick out as much compared to the guys you look for on offense.

Now that he is healthy, I really do think Trey would have helped. He would be a reshirt junior this year. We miss it...

The reason for Trey was not talent. Coach wanted him to stay..Trey left and although enjoys where he is now...has many regrets concerning this decision.
 

Moontan

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Jermaine Pierce would most likely be starting at LB.
 

MattyL

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Now that he is healthy, I really do think Trey would have helped. He would be a reshirt junior this year. We miss it...

The reason for Trey was not talent. Coach wanted him to stay..Trey left and although enjoys where he is now...has many regrets concerning this decision.

I remember being very excited when Trey committed. He was a playmaker in HS and I believed he'd be a solid contributor his last two years in the program. Wish he was still here running routes from the slot. Still a fan no matter where he is.
 

BlackKnight76

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At RB I would think Averin Collier could be a difference maker.

At OT I think Speller could have been a difference maker. I'd feel much better about Pugh/Speller than Pugh/Hay.

At WR Trey Fairchild would have helped.

Defensive side it's a lot harder to name names because the names don't stick out as much compared to the guys you look for on offense.

I definitely think Collier'd be a nice fit right now. He and Ant would compliment each other well.

I don't think Hay's been a huge issue. The tackles have been solid, it's the interior linemen that are struggling, and I'm way more down on Chibane's play than Macky (although Macky has had issues). I was expect him to make the step up to Pugh's level as a guy getting All-BE talk, instead he's been brutal.
 

jekelish

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Agreed on Trey Fairchild being a guy who could help us out. His speed is something we're really lacking at the WR position. Dorian Graham has speed to burn, but his hands just haven't really developed. He needs to work with Shane Falco and Jimmy McGinty to improve them.
 

Kalima45

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Which kids, which units?

And if they are still here the better talent isn't. They aren't here because for the most part they weren't going to see the field.

The ONLY units that are young are DT and LB, and they have done well. There are younger players seeing time in the secondary, but that's a function of injury.

I am not saying that the kids that are here now are not more talented, just that having a kid that would have been in marrone's system for 3 years as opposed to one would be a big help. Kids like Romale Tucker, Zary Stewart, Lamar Middleton and Parker Cantey would have definately helped out a young defense right now even if thier ceiling isn't as high as the current players on the team.
Doesn't really change the fact that they left and I am seeing a much brighter future with who we have, but it really does make this season more of a challenge.
 

fanfanclubclub

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I'm way more down on Chibane's play than Macky (although Macky has had issues). I was expect him to make the step up to Pugh's level as a guy getting All-BE talk, instead he's been brutal.

Macky has been way worse than Chibane. Macky has been insanely vulnerable to A gap blitzes. Wake Forest basically ran a Jim Johnson double-A Gap blitz defense at us, and we have abandoned the pocket ever since. We had to change our zone blocking schemes to lighten Macky's plate: requiring our Gs to pull more often as we wheel Nassib out of the pocket. Chibane hasn't been very good, but we are asking a lot of him. Macky has been lousy and we have asked very little of him.
 

690West

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Rahme is the man, but that is a ridiculous and borderline irresponsible statement
 

Fjoinkay

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Rahme is the man, but that is a ridiculous and borderline irresponsible statement

I agree with everything you just said.

As far as the Oline goes last week was a good sign, and I'm hopeful that they will live up to their expectations the rest of the way. I wonder how much Adkins being sick during camp affected that unit's cohesiveness and development not to mention all of the injuries early on. Don't get me wrong, I think HCDM is probably one of the best Oline coaches in college football or at any level, but as the head coach in camp his mind was in a million different places, and he had to deal with a rash of injuries. I guess I'll go out on a limb and say that I'm cautiously optimistic that the Oline play will continue to improve.
 

tep624

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I am not saying that the kids that are here now are not more talented, just that having a kid that would have been in marrone's system for 3 years as opposed to one would be a big help. Kids like Romale Tucker, Zary Stewart, Lamar Middleton and Parker Cantey would have definately helped out a young defense right now even if thier ceiling isn't as high as the current players on the team.
Doesn't really change the fact that they left and I am seeing a much brighter future with who we have, but it really does make this season more of a challenge.

I wouldn't say I disagree completely on the Defensive players you mention - definitely think Stewart would have been on the 2 deep this season based on how he's done at Morgan St. - he looks like he may have a shot at playing at the next level. I really don't see Tucker or Middleton cracking the 2 deep on this team at DE, even with Chandler injured. Cantey - what has he even done since he left? Is he even playing anymore? I'd lean towards Malcom Cater and EJ Carter helping out more - had they kept their heads on straight - than Middleton, Tucker, or Cantey just from a talent perspective alone.

Speller - agree completely
Fairchild - agree completely
Collier - agree completely
And I'll add Sales as well to that list.

These 4 plus Stewart, Carter, and Cater would have really helped with depth and/or challenged to start this season.

The thing is though, the biggest area of need for depth right now is the secondary. There weren't really any defections from there other than Cervino and Matt Reid, the former was never going to play anyway and the latter did nothing at Hampton.
 

tep624

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Macky has been way worse than Chibane. Macky has been insanely vulnerable to A gap blitzes. Wake Forest basically ran a Jim Johnson double-A Gap blitz defense at us, and we have abandoned the pocket ever since. We had to change our zone blocking schemes to lighten Macky's plate: requiring our Gs to pull more often as we wheel Nassib out of the pocket. Chibane hasn't been very good, but we are asking a lot of him. Macky has been lousy and we have asked very little of him.
Agree completely. I think you put a experienced, physically imposing center next to Chibane and he will quickly become servicable. Chibane may not have an All Conference ceiling but he should be at least a solid starter and I still think that his issues have more to do with Macky than anything.
 

PhatOrange

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I am not saying that the kids that are here now are not more talented, just that having a kid that would have been in marrone's system for 3 years as opposed to one would be a big help. Kids like Romale Tucker, Zary Stewart, Lamar Middleton and Parker Cantey would have definately helped out a young defense right now even if thier ceiling isn't as high as the current players on the team.
Doesn't really change the fact that they left and I am seeing a much brighter future with who we have, but it really does make this season more of a challenge.

nah, those players didn't want to work hard so no, I don't beleive they would've helped and may in fact have hurt - chemistry. David Legree didn't want to wait and/or work hard. He wanted to play immediately. He was never good enough to unseat Nassib. He's put up a few numbers recently against 1AA and some of you guys are wetting yourselves. Gimme a break.

Losing bodies has put a strain on the program and we do need to recruit better but overall we're not a worse team because of it.
 

CPark Orange

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We'll see... I have preached my concern for Toledo... they are explosive and talented! However, I was encouraged by the USC game. The score wasn't the whole story... The All 22 talent gap was NOT as expansive as I would have anticipated on both sides of the ball... Now, depth is not the same. But, the compete level was close! Very encouraging.

Now, we need to bring it at noon in the Dome
 

Fjoinkay

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nah, those players didn't want to work hard so no, I don't beleive they would've helped and may in fact have hurt - chemistry. David Legree didn't want to wait and/or work hard. He wanted to play immediately. He was never good enough to unseat Nassib. He's put up a few numbers recently against 1AA and some of you guys are wetting yourselves. Gimme a break.

Losing bodies has put a strain on the program and we do need to recruit better but overall we're not a worse team because of it.

Nassib would start over Legree for sure. It's fun to see Legree show his talents elsewhere.
 

mantonio

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Here is the central question for this season:

What teams on our remaining schedule have significantly more talent than Syracuse?

AND, what teams have a more established & better coaching staff than Syracuse?
 

DaveR52

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In my defense, I must submit the entire paragraph and offer some background on the original poster, who accused me repeatedly in the past of having "an agenda" against Greg Robinson, a claim he continued to make even though the charge got no traction on the old board (in fact, most posters there went the other way in response and believed I bent over backward to be fair and took the emotion out of my analyses and let the numbers and results speak for themselves; among those thanking me for being fair were GRob's son, Dominic). Anyway, here is the graph:

The feeling here is the Orange is at an early crossroads. It has endured a ton of adversity injury-wise, nearly all of it in the one area it can least afford to take a hit – its young defense. That group will face another severe challenge in Toledo’s potent offense. SU must find a way to gut out a victory or its season could start to slip away. Here are five things it must do to prevail:

To pull that phrase out of the entire context of that paragraph, isolate it and make it a topic for discussion here is in my opinion yet another attempt by this poster to twist what I write out of context. As he is anonymous and thus nameless I have no idea who he is or what his grudge against me is, but I want the board to know he clearly has one when it comes to me and my reporting. The intent of the sentence was to show the importance of the game and to inform an audience that otherwise may have believed a game against a MAC team was no big deal that it in fact is a big deal. In a 12-game season any loss, especially one at home to an underdog (however slight) COULD (note the word could, not WILL) start a season going in the wrong direction. I was shocked to see this phrase isolated thus but not surprised when I saw the author but am disappointed in one response calling it "borderline irresponsible."
 

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