starters for this coming season

[shu 49]

That’s an assumption tho

I think it takes way more than a camp to learn a college offense. Now he may know half the book if he has been working with someone on it. I know when a kid is thinking and not playing he doesnt do as well or isnt aggressive enough. we will find out soon though.

 

[shu 49]

I get it, but I don't want linemen diving at each others' knees, if you know what I mean.
There's physical in practice and drills, but then there's all out scrimmages where guys are trying to win starting jobs, and maybe go a little "too" full-on.

Yeah definatly no cutting 100 percent agree.

 

[UpstateSM]

I have only deep dived Clem/FSU/Pack but there is our starting linebackers are no worse than 2nd best in the ACC. Although the only people higher than me on Derek McDonald are his parents so I can comprehend people disagreeing. I think the depth is really solid, too. But I love love love the starters.

Find me in the Dome with a Marlowe jersey on again this fall. (You'll be next season, JRS)

 

[Consigliere]

Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful write-ups. IMO, projecting lineups is going to be VERY difficult, because we don't have a good sense yet of the systems, and what the coaches may value in players manning certain positions. The spring game provided SOME evidence, but not enough to slot guys in with confidence.

Here's what I have to say about the OL. The staff went out and recruited an impressive group of transfers, several of whom come in with experience. Essentially, they went out and pulled in a potential full starting unit of guys.

• Washington started at Colorado [LT]
• Weatherspoon started at Howard at RT
• Hornsby started at Grambling at OG
• Miller redshirted at Georgia -- looks like an OG, but played LT in spring practice

Now, I wouldn't be surprised to see any of them / all four of them in the starting lineup. The coaching staff didn't bring those guys in to sit, and three of them are experienced starters. But is a guy like Weatherspoon too slow to play RT in the ACC? Not suggesting he is, just saying it's a question mark. Does his size help him win out and man RT adequately, or does he kick inside as a massive RG?

But it's important to note that while OL hasn't been a strength of the Syracuse Football Program [understatement], last year's group had better depth / talent than we usually have -- and we needed every bit of it to deal with the injuries that wracked up over the season. Without that depth, we would have been sunk. Which means that even with the players who portalled out, there is still a decent nucleus of returning players:

• J'Onre Reed -- started every game at center
• Enrique Cruz Jr. -- returning starter at LT, who has struggled a bit
• Jakob Bradford -- returning starter at RG who was solid [not great]
• Mark Petry -- emergency starter at RT who filled in due to injury, was at least decent
• David Wohlabaugh Jr. -- initial starter at RT who missed almost entire season due to injury

That's five [5] guys who've started games here during their careers, and at minimum a full season of starting [except for Wohlabaugh, who got injured game 2].

Beyond them, we have four other guys who seem to be squarely in the mix, based upon spring practice:

• Joe Cruz -- valuable reserve who's played quite a bit over his first 2 years, poised for bigger role?
• Josh Ilaoa -- backup C/G
• Lysander Moeleo -- injured last year, played a lot in the spring game, looks like he's in the mix
• Trevion Mack -- high caliber athlete who could be poised for bigger role

I'm going to leave the incoming true frosh out of the discussion for now, as they probably have an uphill climb.

I readily acknowledge that just because guys started in the past, that doesn't mean that they should be penciled in to the starting lineup. New coaching staff, new systems, clean slate. But would anyone really be surprised if someone like Cruz, Jr. hangs onto a starting role? Or if Bradford doesn't surrender a starting spot easily? What if Wohlabaugh bounces back fully [kid began his career as a starter in the SEC]?

I also think that some will dismiss the returnees as "...not good enough," and pencil new faces into roles. But I'm guessing that the starting OL and positions on the two deep will be a mixture of incumbents and new guys.

I also think that our depth is going to be VERY solid at OL, even moreso than last year, with even better quality. And depth / competition is a good thing for performance. If I had to guess -- and I fully qualify this by acknowledging that we won't know until we have a better sense of what the new OL coach / OC are looking for, here's what I'd predict:

LT -- Washington -- 6-8 and massive
LG -- Bradford for now, he'll have to fight off Miller
C -- Reed -- better in his second year now that he's experienced and has better personnel around him?
RG -- Hornsby, an experienced transfer
RT -- Wohlabaugh, unless he's impaired -- if so, then Weatherspoon or Cruz

Second unit:

LT -- Cruz Jr.
LG -- Miller
C -- Ilaoa
RG -- Moeleo
RT -- Watherspoon

Third unit:
OT -- Petry
G / T -- Cruz
T / G -- Mack

That's just my opinion, of course, I could be wrong. But it is EXCITING to think that we'll field a competent, huge, powerful OL for the first time in... damn, 2012 -- then back to the late 90s?

And we have the depth / positional versatility to not have the entire unit sunk by a key injury or three.

I expect some FIERCE camp battles. And they'll have a good DL to square off against in practice to get ready, which is also good.

I am admittedly heavily biased, but wonder what the perception that Enrique Cruz struggled last year is based on other than amorphous PFF grades. I am a data driven guy and when I read that a LT in his first year as a starter gave up zero sacks and only 3 hits on the QB on a team that gave up 29 sacks in total I have to wonder how much better a different LT could be? Thrilled by the additional depth we have going into 2024, just legitimately confused by the perceived need to upgrade the position.

 

[sutomcat]

I am admittedly heavily biased, but wonder what the perception that Enrique Cruz struggled last year is based on other than amorphous PFF grades. I am a data driven guy and when I read that a LT in his first year as a starter gave up zero sacks and only 3 hits on the QB on a team that gave up 29 sacks in total I have to wonder how much better a different LT could be? Thrilled by the additional depth we have going into 2024, just legitimately confused by the perceived need to upgrade the position.

First off, I am a big fan of Enrique and am rooting for him to have a big year and help lead Syracuse to national prominence this season. There is no one on the team I would rather see blow up and become a star that our very likeable Cubs fan.

That said, I saw that interview where someone talking to Enrique told him he had given up zero sacks and only 3 hits on the QB during 2023. I think it was Sam Holland interviewing Enrique in his No Destination podcast. TNIAAM also included this in their writeup on Enrique for the 2024 season.

I was really surprised because that did not match what I saw during the 2023 season. There is no way this is accurate.

Take a look at these highlights from the 2023 SU-Virginia Tech game. It is the only game I looked at and frankly, it was enough. It brought back some very bad memories.


Let's hope those days are gone. Even with some bad plays here and there, I thought Enrique was easily our best OT last season and I hope he will be our best again this season.

 

[money3189]

First off, I am a big fan of Enrique and am rooting for him to have a big year and help lead Syracuse to national prominence this season. There is no one on the team I would rather see blow up and become a star that our very likeable Cubs fan.

That said, I saw that interview where someone talking to Enrique told him he had given up zero sacks and only 3 hits on the QB during 2023. I think it was Sam Holland interviewing Enrique in his No Destination podcast. TNIAAM also included this in their writeup on Enrique for the 2024 season.

I was really surprised because that did not match what I saw during the 2023 season. There is no way this is accurate.

Take a look at these highlights from the 2023 SU-Virginia Tech game. It is the only game I looked at and frankly, it was enough. It brought back some very bad memories.


Let's hope those days are gone. Even with some bad plays here and there, I thought Enrique was easily our best OT last season and I hope he will be our best again this season.

Yup. Capable starter. He will improve but he struggled at times. His skill set looks better suited for guard.

 

[RF2044]

I am admittedly heavily biased, but wonder what the perception that Enrique Cruz struggled last year is based on other than amorphous PFF grades. I am a data driven guy and when I read that a LT in his first year as a starter gave up zero sacks and only 3 hits on the QB on a team that gave up 29 sacks in total I have to wonder how much better a different LT could be? Thrilled by the additional depth we have going into 2024, just legitimately confused by the perceived need to upgrade the position.

I don't think those numbers are accurate.

I also don't think that PFF is "amorphous" -- quite the opposite, it is an objective measurement. Now, I also don't have an issue if people want to critique PFF's calculation / formula, the criteria it weighs, weights assigned, etc. But it is a quantitative measure of performance.

So, all that said, I don't buy the numbers listed above. That level of performance would be what you might expect from high caliber NFL prospects. I'm not giving up on Cruz -- hope he builds upon the starting experience he gained last season -- but his performance was up and down, and not nearly as solid as what you list above.

 

[Consigliere]

I don't think those numbers are accurate.

I also don't think that PFF is "amorphous" -- quite the opposite, it is an objective measurement. Now, I also don't have an issue if people want to critique PFF's calculation / formula, the criteria it weighs, weights assigned, etc. But it is a quantitative measure of performance.

So, all that said, I don't buy the numbers listed above. That level of performance would be what you might expect from high caliber NFL prospects. I'm not giving up on Cruz -- hope he builds upon the starting experience he gained last season -- but his performance was up and down, and not nearly as solid as what you list above.

I say amorphoue because PFF methodology states that it reviews every play for every player and grades the outcome. It's difficult to fathom that volume of analysis and the grades don't always seem to match the outcome which to me is more important.

 

[Consigliere]

First off, I am a big fan of Enrique and am rooting for him to have a big year and help lead Syracuse to national prominence this season. There is no one on the team I would rather see blow up and become a star that our very likeable Cubs fan.

That said, I saw that interview where someone talking to Enrique told him he had given up zero sacks and only 3 hits on the QB during 2023. I think it was Sam Holland interviewing Enrique in his No Destination podcast. TNIAAM also included this in their writeup on Enrique for the 2024 season.

I was really surprised because that did not match what I saw during the 2023 season. There is no way this is accurate.

Take a look at these highlights from the 2023 SU-Virginia Tech game. It is the only game I looked at and frankly, it was enough. It brought back some very bad memories.


Let's hope those days are gone. Even with some bad plays here and there, I thought Enrique was easily our best OT last season and I hope he will be our best again this season.

I wouldn't base anything solely on one source. I'm actually quoting the performance noted on his bio on cuse.com. I suppose they may have posted without verifying as well though.

"Redshirt Sophomore Year (2023): Started every game at left tackle ... Played 803 snaps on the season, not allowing a single sack and was responsible for just three hits on the quarterback ... Helped pave the way for LeQuint Allen to reach the 1,000 yard threshold, marking the third-straight season Syracuse had a back cross the threshold ... When Syracuse turned to a run-focused attack late in the season, he helped pave the way for an offense that finished with over 172 yards per game on the ground"

 

[sutomcat]

I wouldn't base anything solely on one source. I'm actually quoting the performance noted on his bio on cuse.com. I suppose they may have posted without verifying as well though.

"Redshirt Sophomore Year (2023): Started every game at left tackle ... Played 803 snaps on the season, not allowing a single sack and was responsible for just three hits on the quarterback ... Helped pave the way for LeQuint Allen to reach the 1,000 yard threshold, marking the third-straight season Syracuse had a back cross the threshold ... When Syracuse turned to a run-focused attack late in the season, he helped pave the way for an offense that finished with over 172 yards per game on the ground"

It would be interesting to track where this nugget of info came from. I assume it wasn't from PFF given their assessment of Enrique.

In any event, the past is the past. Let's hope iron sharpens iron and the enhanced depth and competition leads to a major improvement in the performance of the OL. No more 8 sack games, please!

 

[cusefan88]

It would be interesting to track where this nugget of info came from. I assume it wasn't from PFF given their assessment of Enrique.

In any event, the past is the past. Let's hope iron sharpens iron and the enhanced depth and competition led to a major improvement in the performance of the OL. No more 8 sack games, please!

I'm wondering how they will split OL during summer camp. Will the first half be finding the best positions and then second half sharpening the specifics? Nice part is that Cruz and Wohlabaugh (assuming healthy) can play guard or tackle. Really nice versatility and competition for this group.

 

[anomander]

Thanks KC. That two deep was from Sportskeeda. They did a decent job but they didn't use the new scheme for defense, so that part is screwed up, and I disagree with a few other things.

They didn't mention some important players at all. Off the top of my head, there isn't even a mention of Justus Ross-Simmons, Savion Washington, Codie Hornsby and Clarence Lewis, and all have a good chance of being starters (they certainly will all at least be in the two deep).

Kalan Ellis is listed as a starter and he is no longer with the team.

It doesn't even mention Trebor Pena as the PR and he is one of the best PR specialists in the country.

I will try and put out another two deep guess sometime soon. I think I put one out shortly after the spring game but there have been some announcements that change things.

OL is going to be a challenge to pick. I am not sure even the OL on the team know for sure who is going to start (and where they are going to play) right now.

You got me fired up though so I am going to do this right now off the top of my head. I am sure I will miss some players but here goes...

WR-X Justus-Simmons/Meeks
WR-Z Haynes/Gill Jr
Slot Pena/Brown
OT E Cruz or Washington/Wohlabaugh
OG Miller/Moeolo
C Reed/Ilaoa
OG Hornby/Bradford
OT Weatherspoon/Petry
TE Gadsden II/Villari
QB McCord/CDRW
RB Allen/Willis

DE Diggs/Jaquez Jr
DT Wilson Jr/Ingraham
DT Perry/Hastings
DE Jobity/Simmons
LB Wax/Sparrow
LB McDonald/Bailey
Star Barron/Martin
BS Clark/Gould
FS Chestnut/Perry
CB Grant/DeLaine
CB Lewis or Bellamy/Barnes

Punter Stonehouse/Oh
Placekicker Denaburg/Oh
Kickoffs Denaburg/Oh
Long Snap Callahan/Zuhr
Holder Stonehouse/Barron
Punt Returns Pena/Brown
KO Returns James/Gill Jr

Really don't know who the backup to Barron is. I would guess Grant would move in there even if he was starting at CB. Maybe Gould, who seems like a terrific athlete who we need to find a way to get on the field ASAP.

That right there is easily the deepest offense and defense in a very long time. If Ross and ERob can put them in the positions to be successful we are in store for a fun year…. unless (knock on wood) McCord goes down and then we’re in trouble. Just looking back at the talent we brought in when Fran came aboard last year is amazing. Talented and deep. McCord should easily be the best QB since Sr. Nassib. Just please don’t get hurt walking off the bus.

 

[anomander]

Maybe OG in the slot to get both him and Villari on the field at the same time. Throw in Haynes and JRS and you have all playmakers.

 

[CbusCuse]

Strange. Zero sacks from him is certainly not how I remember last season. I also remember E Cruz getting beat badly 1 or 2 times in the spring game. I think he'll improve some more before the season starts, especially going up against Diggs in all the fall practices.
I really like that we are adding Washington to the mix at OT. I think he adds some pretty good pass blocking skills. I think he wins an OT spot and probably RT makes the most sense as that is what he played at Colorado.

 

[FrancoPizza]

First off, I am a big fan of Enrique and am rooting for him to have a big year and help lead Syracuse to national prominence this season. There is no one on the team I would rather see blow up and become a star that our very likeable Cubs fan.

That said, I saw that interview where someone talking to Enrique told him he had given up zero sacks and only 3 hits on the QB during 2023. I think it was Sam Holland interviewing Enrique in his No Destination podcast. TNIAAM also included this in their writeup on Enrique for the 2024 season.

I was really surprised because that did not match what I saw during the 2023 season. There is no way this is accurate.

Take a look at these highlights from the 2023 SU-Virginia Tech game. It is the only game I looked at and frankly, it was enough. It brought back some very bad memories.


Let's hope those days are gone. Even with some bad plays here and there, I thought Enrique was easily our best OT last season and I hope he will be our best again this season.

That VT game was embarrassing. It was like the whole team played hungover.

 

[JuiceMeUp]

I have only deep dived Clem/FSU/Pack but there is our starting linebackers are no worse than 2nd best in the ACC. Although the only people higher than me on Derek McDonald are his parents so I can comprehend people disagreeing. I think the depth is really solid, too. But I love love love the starters.

Find me in the Dome with a Marlowe jersey on again this fall. (You'll be next season, JRS)

My concern isn't the talent, we have plenty, but more so the scheme. It's hard to expect to be lights out from the jump when the entire team is implementing a brand-new scheme from a brand-new DC and with a lot of new players and zero game reps to fall back on.

 

[money3189]

My concern isn't the talent, we have plenty, but more so the scheme. It's hard to expect to be lights out from the jump when the entire team is implementing a brand-new scheme from a brand-new DC and with a lot of new players and zero game reps to fall back on.

Thats a good point. It could take a while to adjust to the new scheme. The backers won't be attacking the LOS as much. They also have to gel with the new transfers.

 

[CbusCuse]

My concern isn't the talent, we have plenty, but more so the scheme. It's hard to expect to be lights out from the jump when the entire team is implementing a brand-new scheme from a brand-new DC and with a lot of new players and zero game reps to fall back on.

Yes that’s a valid concern. Luckily our schedule is pretty soft to start out the season. I think we should be able to work out some kinks and still get a lot of W’s during that span.

 

[kcsu]

Yes that’s a valid concern. Luckily our schedule is pretty soft to start out the season. I think we should be able to work out some kinks and still get a lot of W’s during that span.

GT and Ohio are not soft.

 

[721Comstock]

GT and Ohio are not soft.

Concur about GT.

Ohio is (relatively) soft.
Not Charmin soft, but soft.

We’re gonna be 2+ TD faves for that game, and I’ll be shocked if we don’t end up winning by like 30.

The incredible upgrades across the board in our athletes skill, size, speed, and strength will be overwhelming.

And I doubt Fran is gonna stand for many/any stupid penalties, nor make head-scratching coaching decisions, or butcher clock and game management like Dino routinely did.

 

[kcsu]

Concur about GT.

Ohio is (relatively) soft.
Not Charmin soft, but soft.

We’re gonna be 2+ TD faves for that game, and I’ll be shocked if we don’t end up winning by like 30.

The incredible upgrades across the board in our athletes skill, size, speed, and strength will be overwhelming.

And I doubt Fran is gonna stand for many/any stupid penalties, nor make head-scratching coaching decisions, or butcher clock and game management like Dino routinely did.

GT is loaded and will be a very tough out.

I think that our biggest improvement is going to be on O.
On paper we are loaded. The WR room is the best we have had in I don't know how long. Ross Simmons is a beast and then you throw in OG Dan Pena and the transfers, and we are really good.
LA and Willis might be the best one two punch since the 90s and Nixons kid is no slouch.
The Oline will be significantly improved and is two deep and of course McCord is the best we have had in decades. Keep him healthy and we can hang with anyone this year.

 

[All4SU]

I don’t see how anyone could possibly predict the starting OL or DL for the upcoming season. Too many new faces. Too many variables. Virtually every other position in the team, perhaps. But not the lines.

 

[shu 49]

Yup. Capable starter. He will improve but he struggled at times. His skill set looks better suited for guard.

Didnt his ft look a bit slow and he extends himself to far out instead of sitting back.

 

[kcsu]

I don’t see how anyone could possibly predict the starting OL or DL for the upcoming season. Too many new faces. Too many variables. Virtually every other position in the team, perhaps. But not the lines.

If Wolly is healthy he will start same with the big General at Center. Other than that i think its up for grabs

 

[CbusCuse]

GT and Ohio are not soft.

GT will be very tough. OU will be down a bit and not as good as recent seasons. They lost a lot to grad and portal. They are projected to finish about 6th in the MAC. Overall it’s a nice soft starting schedule to get our feet wet.