Second round pick Thomas Bryant... | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Second round pick Thomas Bryant...

He's an interesting player. Too small to be an NBA C and too raw skills-wise to be a Stretch 4. I always thought he moved sort of funny/awkward laterally. He also played with a bunch of more talented players than him at IU, imo. But, he was exactly what SU was missing. A tough, high-energy/motor guy who would've been solid at C in the zone, I think.
 
I think one of our biggest area's of need the last two seasons was center. Bryant's ability to shoot and pass out of the highpost combined with being a legit lowpost threat would have really helped the FF team. Imagine him with TylerL, Mal, MikeG, Trevor operating around him. That BTW would have been four NBA players on the same team. Hard to think about last years team with Bryant since I believe he would have gone to the NBA after one season.

I know for sure that his decision was a bad one for SU as he would have been a key cog and a great fit coming in as a freshman.

Yeah, I agree although hard to say whether or not he would've bolted or not after a year. Although any SU player who has a chance to be drafted is bolting and getting out of dodge ASAP. Maybe there wouldn't have been enough balls to go around for him to showcase enough offensive stuff. But, for sure, he would've been a good passer like you said out of the post and a solid defensive presence/rebounder. His attitude/toughness maybe would've rubbed off on some of the players. He wouldn't have allowed being dunked on over and over in the post and maybe the teams (especially if he was at SU a second year) woud've gotten off to better starts in games and not looked so lifeless often.
 
Last edited:
Had nothing to do with going to Indiana. His game didn't develop to a point where he'd be a first rounder this year. Instead of banging in the paint like a man his size should, he became a stretch 4/5 and he wasn't that good from deep.
Okay so let me ask you then. What if he came to Syracuse, left this year, and was selected at the exact same spot. Did he screw up and make a bad decision then?
There's some speculation in the OP, of course -- as there is with any discussion about college choice and draft selection. But it's not as off the wall as you make it sound.

As you might remember, TB was class of 15. That year, we were in the "chaos" of the NCAA BS. TB was our bigman to lose, our "all eggs in the basket" center. Having him flip to IU in May of that year was not only a huge loss, it was the start of a difficult recruiting spiral that has persisted for 2 years since.

The point the OP makes is that had TB stuck with the plan and committed to SU, he could have been the featured center on a team that went to the FF. Not only would we have arguably won many more games in the regular season with his strength inside, we could have showcased him in a way he couldn't have dreamed of at IU.

Being on a more successful (and better coached) team would obviously have helped his draft stock - because he would have benefited from a more successful surrounding cast and more wins. Personally, I have no doubt he would have made us better that year. We had NOBODY inside except Coleman, who could barely play 17 minutes (I won't even bother mentioning Chino). By the time the tournament rolled around, DC's PT was down considerably. I think he had 8 points against MTS, but didn't score against Gonzaga and had 3 points against Virginia and went 5/4 against a team he was taylor-made to play against (UNC) in about 20 minutes. Instead, we had Tyler Lydon, a stretch 4, playing out of position. And (no surprise), we got massacred on the glass against UNC. Different result with TB ... I can't say that with certainty. But IMO he would have given us a better chance. Without him, we had none. And either way, he would have had HUGE exposure at the FF in the NCAA tournament.

This past year, even more of the same. We were a doughnut team. Again, TL played center, out of position. We didn't make the tournament. We had no inside scoring and poor rebounding and defense. TT was a disaster inside .. (he's a forward anyway). Would TB have helped us? If you don't think so, you know nothing about college basketball. In all likelihood, we would have done much better ... playing TL at PF with TB at center would have made a night-and- day difference on defense and on the glass. TB would have had another year to showcase himself in the NCAA tournament. That exposure can't be understated .. as Malachai Richardson will tell you.

So maybe you don't agree that TB blew it going to IU -- I've never been a crean fan and they were going nowhere. But anyway you slice it, there's definitely some merit to the argument that TB would have been much better off attending SU and being coached by JB -- and I'm dead sure we would have been a much better team with him BOTH years.
 
Last edited:
Again, you are interjecting your bias by trying to guess my perspective on the draft issue. So let me course correct -- I'm of the opinion that kids should go pro as early as they can, given their limited window to earn. I BELIEVE Bryant made mistakes on numerous levels by not jumping last year, when his stock was probably higher. On that basis alone, he made a bad decision returning [again, my opinion only]. Had he come to Syracuse, he would have had the opportunity to be a part of better teams, possibly a contributor on a final four squad, and maybe a better team last year than what he experienced at Indiana, in a year where the team was barely over .500 and the coach got fired. But who knows--given that the scenario you are outlining is totally hypothetical.

I don't begrudge the kid his decision, but I'm allowed to respectfully question it -- that's the point you're missing.

We agree there. I'm all for them jumping as soon as the iron is hot.

I just think you needed more to your original post and I really wouldn't have cared. If your opinion in the OP was that he screwed up returning for another year, say that.

When you're on a syracuse fan message board saying a kid who was almost coming here "screwed up going to Indiana. Bad decision on his part." It makes it sound like you bash him for not coming here.

Everyone has their right to debate whether a player should stay or go - but no reason to rip a kid for his choice in university.
 
I don't particularly care for Crean, but he's certainly coached his share of players that have went on to succeed in the NBA.
Wade, Zeller, Oladipo? Go on...

A major reason Bryant chose Indiana over Syracuse was his misconception that Tom Crean and IU were superior to Syracuse at developing NBA talent. It actually is a bit ironic that he didn't develop into a first rounder while at IU, and Crean ended up fired.
 
Wade, Zeller, Oladipo? Go on...

Wesley Matthews has been a double-digit scorer in the NBA for the past 8 years. Yogi Farrell was a double-digit scorer in his rookie season this past year.
 
We agree there. I'm all for them jumping as soon as the iron is hot.

I just think you needed more to your original post and I really wouldn't have cared. If your opinion in the OP was that he screwed up returning for another year, say that.

When you're on a syracuse fan message board saying a kid who was almost coming here "screwed up going to Indiana. Bad decision on his part." It makes it sound like you bash him for not coming here.

Everyone has their right to debate whether a player should stay or go - but no reason to rip a kid for his choice in university.

Fair enough. I don't think we're that far off, but not worth bogging down on semantics at this point.

Have a good weekend.
 
Sounds like this thread is going to have a Family Matters-esque happy ending.

And roll the closing credits...

hqdefault.jpg
 
Rakeem Christmas - 20th rated recruit out of High School.

Thomas Bryant - 20th rated recruit out of High School.

Christmas 32nd pick in the NBA draft after 4 college years.

Bryant 42nd pick in the NBA draft after 2 college years.



Don't think either guy planned on it going the way it did, but there's zero evidence that Bryant would've done any better had he came here.
 
We agree there. I'm all for them jumping as soon as the iron is hot.

I just think you needed more to your original post and I really wouldn't have cared. If your opinion in the OP was that he screwed up returning for another year, say that.

When you're on a syracuse fan message board saying a kid who was almost coming here "screwed up going to Indiana. Bad decision on his part." It makes it sound like you bash him for not coming here.

Everyone has their right to debate whether a player should stay or go - but no reason to rip a kid for his choice in university.
I'll bash him for not coming here. Read my post above to see why. It was a dumb decision -- his right
Rakeem Christmas - 20th rated recruit out of High School.

Thomas Bryant - 20th rated recruit out of High School.

Christmas 32nd pick in the NBA draft after 4 college years.

Bryant 42nd pick in the NBA draft after 2 college years.



Don't think either guy planned on it going the way it did, but there's zero evidence that Bryant would've done any better had he came here.
I disagree. IU sucked [by edit - at least this year per SoBe]. At SU, TB could have made us better and gotten MUCH more post-season exposure (and better coaching). Post-season exposure helps your draft stock.

Signed,

MR.
 
Last edited:
I'll bash him for not coming here. Read my post above to see why. It was a dumb decision -- his right

I disagree. IU sucked. At SU, TB could have made us better and gotten MUCH more post-season exposure (and better coaching). Post-season exposure helps your draft stock.

Signed,

MR.

Hindsight is 20/20
 
Hindsight is 20/20
True. But I posted some very good reasons why TB would have been better showcased at SU. He languished at IU -- not only did the team suck, his coaching sucked as well. Had he come to SU, he would have been in the FF (at LEAST) and probably gotten us into the tourny this last year. Two years in post-season play as the featured center. I mean, if you don't think that matters, look at SU"s list of draft picks the last 6 years. It makes a difference. MR is a perfect example.
 
Lydon was ranked 72nd in the final RSCI rankings in 2015. That makes him the equivalent of a low 4 star (I think most sites give 5 stars to the top 25 and 4 stars to positions 26-100).
Two years later, he was the 24th pick in the draft. Here are some 5 star kids from his High School class who were drafted behind him:
#5 Ivan Rabb -35th pick
#16(tie) Caleb Swanigan - 26th pick
#16(tie) Dwayne Bacon - 40th pick
#23 Tyler Dorsey - 41st pick
#25 Thomas Bryant - 42nd pick

I don't know that there is really any substantial talent difference between the 24th and the 42nd pick. Really, it just shows that the star ratings coming out of high school shouldn't be obsessed over. Boeheim has demonstrated that his eye for talent is at least as good and probably better than the guys writing for various recruiting sites. If him and his staff targets a 3 star or a low 4 star guy, we should give him the benefit of the doubt rather than worrying about the 5 star who once mentioned us but we decided not to pursue.
 
I disagree. His team sucked. And he could have made it better and gotten MUCH more post-season exposure (and better coaching) at SU.

Signed,

MR.

Rak didn't go to the post season his final year. McCullough didn't play in the post season. Lydon didn't make the post season this past season and if you'd listen to some around here he was awful this year.

The last two #1 overall picks didn't play in the post season. Plenty of lottery picks don't play in the tourney. And what about all of the Euros who come over?

The tournament is a handful a games if not less for most guys, if a NBA GM is dumb enough to draft based on the tournament alone I can't imagine he'll have a job for very long. 10 minutes of a game didn't get Mali drafted.
 
True. But I posted some very good reasons why TB would have been better showcased at SU. He languished at IU -- not only did the team suck, his coaching sucked as well. Had he come to SU, he would have been in the FF (at LEAST) and probably gotten us into the tourny this last year. Two years in post-season play as the featured center. I mean, if you don't think that matters, look at SU"s list of draft picks the last 6 years. It makes a difference. MR is a perfect example.

You're using hindsight points lol. A month before TB committed we got hit with our sanctions. I just will not bash a 17 year old kid for going to a university that he thought would be the best fit. Could he have come here and benefited himself & SU? Sure. But maybe not himself so much coming here. So many factors. Happy that he got drafted.
 
Lydon was ranked 72nd in the final RSCI rankings in 2015. That makes him the equivalent of a low 4 star (I think most sites give 5 stars to the top 25 and 4 stars to positions 26-100).
Two years later, he was the 24th pick in the draft. Here are some 5 star kids from his High School class who were drafted behind him:
#5 Ivan Rabb -35th pick
#16(tie) Caleb Swanigan - 26th pick
#16(tie) Dwayne Bacon - 40th pick
#23 Tyler Dorsey - 41st pick
#25 Thomas Bryant - 42nd pick

I don't know that there is really any substantial talent difference between the 24th and the 42nd pick. Really, it just shows that the star ratings coming out of high school shouldn't be obsessed over. Boeheim has demonstrated that his eye for talent is at least as good and probably better than the guys writing for various recruiting sites. If him and his staff targets a 3 star or a low 4 star guy, we should give him the benefit of the doubt rather than worrying about the 5 star who once mentioned us but we decided not to pursue.
Huge difference between 24th (First Round) and 42 (middle of second), starting with guaranteed money, the compensation rate, the spread (usually 1st round is over 4 years with steady increases) .. and really the expectations are vastly different. Mid-second rounders sometimes break into the rotation. But they're considered risks, and roster spots are not guaranteed. First rounders they make room for. I'm not saying TL will never go to the development league. But at least he won't have to worry about not making the team.
 
Huge difference between 24th (First Round) and 42 (middle of second), starting with guaranteed money, the compensation rate, the spread (usually 1st round is over 4 years with steady increases) .. and really the expectations are vastly different. Mid-second rounders sometimes break into the rotation. But they're considered risks, and roster spots are not guaranteed. First rounders they make room for. I'm not saying TL will never go to the development league. But at least he won't have to worry about not making the team.
reading comprehension:
I don't know that there is really any substantial talent difference between the 24th and the 42nd pick
 
Rak didn't go to the post season his final year. McCullough didn't play in the post season. Lydon didn't make the post season this past season and if you'd listen to some around here he was awful this year.

The last two #1 overall picks didn't play in the post season. Plenty of lottery picks don't play in the tourney. And what about all of the Euros who come over?

The tournament is a handful a games if not less for most guys, if a NBA GM is dumb enough to draft based on the tournament alone I can't imagine he'll have a job for very long. 10 minutes of a game didn't get Mali drafted.
Well, it does little good to recite all these players who got drafted and didn't make the tournament. Obviously, that happens. TL is an example (speaking of just this season).

However, his potential was on display at the FF and having him step up and make major plays in crunch time -- um if you don't think that matters to NBA G managers, I think you're out to lunch.

More to the point .. a BORDERLINE player (Like TB and malachai) can definitely benefit from post-season exposure. Of course, they have to play well, at the right times. If they do, the difference is dramatic -- without a couple plays against UVA, many (I'm included) think MR was headed for mid second round also. Yet he went at 22. Lydon didn't make the post season, but SU's run last year put him in the NBA's sights and all he had to do this year was play decently (out of position) and showcase his jumper (he did that).
 
reading comprehension:
I don't know that there is really any substantial talent difference between the 24th and the 42nd pick
Ok fair point. I read a little too fast and missed that. Let's not get snippy. I agree with you mostly about stars (which was your point, not draft position), just pointing out some benefits of the 1st round.
 
Indiana did NOT suck Bryant's frosh year. Let's get that straight. 27-8. Big 10 winner. Beat Kentucky in the tourney then lost to runner up UNC in the S16. They were a very good team with very good players. This past year they were pretty bad just like SU. Some key injuries as well, fyi.
 
I'll bash him for not coming here. Read my post above to see why. It was a dumb decision -- his right

I disagree. IU sucked. At SU, TB could have made us better and gotten MUCH more post-season exposure (and better coaching). Post-season exposure helps your draft stock.

Signed,

MR.

It's tough to paint it with a big broad brush though. 15 months ago Bryant was a star in the NCAAT win against UK on a huge stage and projected as a no brainer first round pick. If he leaves after his freshman year like he should've this conversation is flipped upside down. He's another example of why it rarely is the right decision to come back.

Bryant is who he is whether he went to Syracuse or Indiana. He's an offensively skilled but heavy footed big who will have some challenges defensively in the NBA, which I think ultimately is what impacted his situation more than what school he went to.
 
It's tough to paint it with a big broad brush though. 15 months ago Bryant was a star in the NCAAT win against UK on a huge stage and projected as a no brainer first round pick. If he leaves after his freshman year like he should've this conversation is flipped upside down. He's another example of why it rarely is the right decision to come back.

Bryant is who he is whether he went to Syracuse or Indiana. He's an offensively skilled but heavy footed big who will have some challenges defensively in the NBA, which I think ultimately is what impacted his situation more than what school he went to.
No doubt, those limitations were there regardless. I still think that JB/SU would have helped TB in the draft: 1) by developing him better; 2) by providing a better surrounding cast (IU made the post season but nowhere near the FF 2 seasons ago); and 3) SU players, even arguable second rounders, tend to get a very favorable look from NBA gm's The last 6 years in a row are no accident.
 
Last edited:
Indiana did NOT suck Bryant's frosh year. Let's get that straight. 27-8. Big 10 winner. Beat Kentucky in the tourney then lost to runner up UNC in the S16. They were a very good team with very good players. This past year they were pretty bad just like SU. Some key injuries as well, fyi.

And he shouldn't have allowed Crean to talk him into coming back! That was the real poor decision Thomas Bryant made. He would have been drafted much higher after his freshman season than he was in this draft.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
167,139
Messages
4,682,201
Members
5,900
Latest member
DizzyNY

Online statistics

Members online
316
Guests online
2,197
Total visitors
2,513


Top Bottom