Shafer has his built in excuse

[Alsacs]

He didn't have good QB play at all, but that doesn't change the fact that he was a decent receiver.

A #3 WR would imply in a standard offensive package(2 WR, 1 TE 1 RB, 1 FB/TE) he wouldn't be a starter.
Jarrod West wouldn't start? The guy was a lot better than people gave him credit for. I see little difference between West and Lemon.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

A #3 WR would imply in a standard offensive package(2 WR, 1 TE 1 RB, 1 FB/TE) he wouldn't be a starter.
Jarrod West wouldn't start? The guy was a lot better than people gave him credit for. I see little difference between West and Lemon.

For one, Lemon had much better hands. I can remember West dropping 3 TD passes in Nassib's senior year alone. Besides, SU doesn't use that package. 2 TEs or a fullback are not common. They'd frequently use a 3rd WR which would get him on the field quite often.

 

[tipphill]

its going to be all on the OL as to how successful our offense is . Dungey is capable and better than wilson and aj by a lot saw that the first time i saw him at fanfest and last night was no different. This is not a last yr situation where were done without hunt we can still compete in and win the majority of our games especially with how our defense played and our stout LB core

i agree---and they were not very good against a very bad team

 

[Chip]

A lot of the things being said about Dungey were being said about AJ Long last year after the FSU game.

King Otto said it in another thread he started. Defense and running game will take us as far as we're gonna go.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

In 2009 with a harder schedule and a QB who hadn't played the game in 4 years Marrone was able to go 4-8 and was a few plays away from 6-6. IMO anything less than a competitive 4-8 and Shafer should be shown the door.

 

[dasher]

Solid #3 WR wow. I am sorry to Doug Marrone for how I treated him. Please tell me the QB play West had his Junior and Senior years?
We deserve the luck we have gotten with stuff like this.
What would you call Alec Lemon? a#2 WR possession WR masquerading as more.

Yes That is exactly what Alec Lemon is. What do you think Lemon would be with a upper division ACC team? What would he have been when we were good. Kane and Moore? Moore and Carpenter? Johnson and Spotwood. We have typically had better wide outs than Lemon (when we were good). Alec was very good for us. And we didn't have good qb's throwing him the ball. But Lemon and West were not top college wide outs. It's been so long since we had them that we forget whet they look like.

 

[dasher]

In 2009 with a harder schedule and a QB who hadn't played the game in 4 years Marrone was able to go 4-8 and was a few plays away from 6-6. IMO anything less than a competitive 4-8 and Shafer should be shown the door.

Marrone didn't play in a league like the ACC. We play LSU, FSU, Clemson, Those are 3 better programs than we played back then. Let's face it, we have a 1-4 season before we start the season. We have 7 winnable games. 4 of them are at home. Oh, and this year we have a true freshman playing qb. Not a 22 year old.

 

[TheCusian]

A lot of the things being said about Dungey were being said about AJ Long last year after the FSU game. King Otto said it in another thread he started. Defense and running game will take us as far as we're gonna go.

Dungey has things physically that AJ doesn't. He's got a better arm.

There were and still are a lot of questions about AJ's ability to throw deep, run, and he's not getting taller.

 

[Scooch]

A lot of the things being said about Dungey were being said about AJ Long last year after the FSU game. King Otto said it in another thread he started. Defense and running game will take us as far as we're gonna go.

We're also grading Dungey on a curve. There were some throws he really sailed last night where we'd be unmerciful if it was another QB who wasn't a true frosh.

I do think that with the run game, some emerging playmakers at XB and WR, and the front 7, that we should still be able to beat Wake, CMU and USF. After that we may need to hope we run into a team that beats itself (Pitt, UVA) or that the true frosh is playing at least like an experienced redshirt frosh by games 11 and 12.

The path to 6 wins may still be there, but it just got a lot thornier.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Marrone didn't play in a league like the ACC. We play LSU, FSU, Clemson, Those are 3 better programs than we played back then. Let's face it, we have a 1-4 season before we start the season. We have 7 winnable games. 4 of them are at home. Oh, and this year we have a true freshman playing qb. Not a 22 year old.

ACC is top heavy. BC, Louisville, NC St, Pitt, UVA, Wake are not a step up from the Big East. Our OOC this year is much easier than in 2009. I rather have a kid go from playing QB in HS than have a kid who hadn't played a game in 4 years.

 

[dasher]

ACC is top heavy. BC, Louisville, NC St, Pitt, UVA, Wake are not a step up from the Big East. Our OOC this year is much easier than in 2009. I rather have a kid go from playing QB in HS than have a kid who hadn't played a game in 4 years.

Louisville is a big step up from the Big East. We disagree

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Louisville is a big step up from the Big East. We disagree

2009 Cincy, Pitt, and WV were all better than 2015 Louisville.

Their O wasn't very good last year. They are replacing their 2 best WRs and 4 starting OL. Their D was good last year but they replace 4 of their top 5 DBs.

They are well below FSU and Clemson but well above NC St, BC, and Wake. I expect them to beat the teams worse than them but also to lose to the teams better than them. Although they did lose to UVA last year. The Pitt game and the Bowl game will determine whether or not they end the year ranked. I don't think they do.

If we were at home and Hunt were healthy we could beat them.

 

[dasher]

2009 Cincy, Pitt, and WV were all better than 2015 Louisville.

Their O wasn't very good last year. They are replacing their 2 best WRs and 4 starting OL. Their D was good last year but they replace 4 of their top 5 DBs.

They are well below FSU and Clemson but well above NC St, BC, and Wake. I expect them to beat the teams worse than them but also to lose to the teams better than them. Although they did lose to UVA last year. The Pitt game and the Bowl game will determine whether or not they end the year ranked. I don't think they do.

If we were at home and Hunt were healthy we could beat them.

We'll see. I hope they aren't as good as I think they are. That Syracuse team also gave up 56 pts to UConn. UConn coached by Randy .

 

[RF2044]

The speed and wiggle I saw from Estime, Erv, And power/ wiggle/balance from Fredericks haven't been here in years. Strickland literally coasted in on his TD.

Those players showed skills that translate against better competition. Especially the first three.

Still not sold in the OL and wish we had a burner to stretch the D.

Speaking of D...i think our front 7 will be fine. There is size and speed to compete with our peers. Biggest issue to me are the corners.

I really think this coaching staff can recruit. We're already seeing the upgraded talent, and how it makes a difference [after all these years of lackluster play]. I really hope that we get to a bowl, so that Shafer and his staff can continue to upgrade the talent. They're on the right track.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

I really think this coaching staff can recruit. We're already seeing the upgraded talent, and how it makes a difference [after all these years of lackluster play]. I really hope that we get to a bowl, so that Shafer and his staff can continue to upgrade the talent. They're on the right track.

What is hard to determine is how much of the recruiting is due to moving to the ACC, 3 Bowls in 4 years, the new IPF vs Shafer? I do think Shafer has committed more to recruiting than Marrone. One guy had a staff with a bunch of Xs and Os guys, while the other filled his staff with a bunch of recruiters. Would Marrone have adjusted his staff?

 

[RF2044]

What is hard to determine is how much of the recruiting is due to moving to the ACC, 3 Bowls in 4 years, the new IPF vs Shafer? I do think Shafer has committed more to recruiting than Marrone. One guy had a staff with a bunch of Xs and Os guys, while the other filled his staff with a bunch of recruiters. Would Marrone have adjusted his staff?

My post wasn't Marrone versus Shafer. I also am not suggesting that the recruiting is all about HCSS -- clearly, the ACC, IPF, etc. are all factors.

BUT, it also seems pretty clear that Shafer and his staff can be effective on the recruiting trail, and that they are upgrading the size / speed / athleticism / playmaking on this team. The improvement of the offensive skilled talent is already starting to become evident. Coaching on game day is still a legitimate question mark, IMO, but I strongly believe that Shafer can start pulling in top 40 or better classes, especially if we can start getting on the positive side of the W/L column.

 

[Crusty]

Marrone doesn't coach here anymore so I could care less about hypotheticals. Shafer does coach here and he is doing a good job re recruiting. If we start winning recruiting will get even better. Next case.

 

[Alsacs]

Marrone didn't play in a league like the ACC. We play LSU, FSU, Clemson, Those are 3 better programs than we played back then. Let's face it, we have a 1-4 season before we start the season. We have 7 winnable games. 4 of them are at home. Oh, and this year we have a true freshman playing qb. Not a 22 year old.

Our 2009 schedule was just as hard as this one.
We played 3 Big Ten teams all three of those teams made bowl games. Cincinnati went undefeated that season. Pitt and West Virginia were top 25 teams that year and Rutgers, South Florida, and UConn all won 8 games that year.

Our 2009 team had less talent than this year and as KOIII said we were a competitive 4-8. With Greg Paulus and rFr Ryan Nassib spliting the QB play. This season has to be 5-7 or a good offense. If the offense isn't good I am sorry we need a new staff.

 

[supp]

A lot of the things being said about Dungey were being said about AJ Long last year after the FSU game.

King Otto said it in another thread he started. Defense and running game will take us as far as we're gonna go.

But there are differences too. It was clear right away with Long that he didn't have the arm to play at this level yet. His great strength was escapability, making something out of nothing. Dungey showed last night at least that he's got enough zip on the ball to make completions against higher level competition. His release is quick and fluid. He also showed that he's got enough wheels to extend a play if necessary. He looks to be a mix of Wilson and Long.

 

[CuseOnly]

I really think this coaching staff can recruit. We're already seeing the upgraded talent, and how it makes a difference [after all these years of lackluster play]. I really hope that we get to a bowl, so that Shafer and his staff can continue to upgrade the talent. They're on the right track.

Wasn't the class that is playing now as freshmen, the class that was supposedly "rushed" to put together so they could focus on some high priority kids for 2016?

See how mistaken we all were.

 

[RF2044]

Wasn't the class that is playing now as freshmen, the class that was supposedly "rushed" to put together so they could focus on some high priority kids for 2016?

See how mistaken we all were.

The class of 2015 was the highest rated group we've landed in about 15+ years.

 

[CuseOnly]

The class of 2015 was the highest rated group we've landed in about 15+ years.

Actually it wasn't.

It was thought that the class was hastily put together so that the staff could focus on the 2016 class on this very board on the recruiting side.

There have been many threads dedicated to our recruiting ranking over the past 15 years. Will look up some posts for you and put them here.

 

[anomander]

The class of 2015 was the highest rated group we've landed in about 15+ years.

Funny how those recruiting rankings work.

 

[Alsacs]

I will give SS credit in that he has recruited above average. I just don't think his recruiting is good enough to save him unless we have an improved offense.

 

[anomander]

We're also grading Dungey on a curve. There were some throws he really sailed last night where we'd be unmerciful if it was another QB who wasn't a true frosh.

I do think that with the run game, some emerging playmakers at XB and WR, and the front 7, that we should still be able to beat Wake, CMU and USF. After that we may need to hope we run into a team that beats itself (Pitt, UVA) or that the true frosh is playing at least like an experienced redshirt frosh by games 11 and 12.

The path to 6 wins may still be there, but it just got a lot thornier.

That 1 pass to Erv that he missed by about 5 feet you can tell he rushed the throw just a tad. In 3 weeks he takes his time and drills Erv for a TD. If Hunt had the same throw it's 50/50 if he puts it anywhere near him. I saw a lot to be very encouraged in with Dungey. Another play that stood out was an out to Estime where he threw the ball right when Bris started his break, he turned around and it was in his hands. That's anticipation Hunt just didn't have. I really think we aren't going to miss a beat with Dungey, plus it's huge for the future, where let's face it, that's what we are all looking at with these young guys all over the field.

I agree we handle Wake, CMU, USF, and after watching Pitt, and BC struggle for the most part with FCS programs today I see no reason we shouldn't be able to beat both of them at home.