Shafer has his built in excuse

[RF2044]

Actually it wasn't.

It was thought that the class was hastily put together so that the staff could focus on the 2016 class on this very board on the recruiting side.

There have been many threads dedicated to our recruiting ranking over the past 15 years. Will look up some posts for you and put them here.

Not trying to be argumentative, but it was. There might be some variation on the different sites that I won't split hairs over, but in general last year's class was the best we've had in a long time [and some tried to claim that it wasn't appreciably better than previous classes in quality, which was obviously false].

 

[Crusty]

A lot of the things being said about Dungey were being said about AJ Long last year after the FSU game.

King Otto said it in another thread he started. Defense and running game will take us as far as we're gonna go.

Many of us pointed out that AJ did not have P5 arm and threw into coverage far too often. Dungey made good decisions and has a strong arm. He really is quite different IMO.

 

[RF2044]

That 1 pass to Erv that he missed by about 5 feet you can tell he rushed the throw just a tad. In 3 weeks he takes his time and drills Erv for a TD. If Hunt had the same throw it's 50/50 if he puts it anywhere near him. I saw a lot to be very encouraged in with Dungey. Another play that stood out was an out to Estime where he threw the ball right when Bris started his break, he turned around and it was in his hands. That's anticipation Hunt just didn't have. I really think we aren't going to miss a beat with Dungey, plus it's huge for the future, where let's face it, that's what we are all looking at with these young guys all over the field.

I agree we handle Wake, CMU, USF, and after watching Pitt, and BC struggle for the most part with FCS programs today I see no reason we shouldn't be able to beat both of them at home.

I'm hoping that Dungey's misses [and there were more than many are acknowledging] were the result of not getting a ton of run with the 1's this past week, not being on the same page timing-wise, etc. He'll have this entire week to work out some of those kinks.

 

[RF2044]

Funny how those recruiting rankings work.

The class was under-rated, and the best class quality-wise we've had in a long time. And the proof's in the pudding.

As I recall, you were one of the ones claiming that it wasn't different qualitatively than previous recent classes [counter to the point you're making].

 

[Crusty]

That 1 pass to Erv that he missed by about 5 feet you can tell he rushed the throw just a tad. In 3 weeks he takes his time and drills Erv for a TD. If Hunt had the same throw it's 50/50 if he puts it anywhere near him. I saw a lot to be very encouraged in with Dungey. Another play that stood out was an out to Estime where he threw the ball right when Bris started his break, he turned around and it was in his hands. That's anticipation Hunt just didn't have. I really think we aren't going to miss a beat with Dungey, plus it's huge for the future, where let's face it, that's what we are all looking at with these young guys all over the field.

I agree we handle Wake, CMU, USF, and after watching Pitt, and BC struggle for the most part with FCS programs today I see no reason we shouldn't be able to beat both of them at home.

Good post. AC also dropped TD that hit him in the hands. Dungey is smart apparently Nassib smart - he should learn quickly. By games 11 and 12 I like our chances.

 

[RF2044]

Many of us pointed out that AJ did not have P5 arm and threw into coverage far too often. Dungey made good decisions and has a strong arm. He really is quite different IMO.

AJ Long never should have been on the field last year. He clearly needed to come in and improve his physique to play at this level. But I wouldn't be so quick to sell him short. He has solid tools.

Point could be moot if Dungey seizes the reins, though. But regardless, between Dungey, Long, Culpepper [and maybe Moore?] -- the cupboards are stocked at QB better than they have been in a LONG time. Factor in the additions at the other skilled positions, and the future looks bright!

 

[RF2044]

Good post. AC also dropped TD that hit him in the hands. Dungey is smart apparently Nassib smart - he should learn quickly. By games 11 and 12 I like our chances.

Love the kid's athletic ability--and he seems to have a lot of the natural tools to excel at QB.

I really don't know what to expect next week, though. I am afraid that he might really struggle against P5 defenses that sell out to blitz him and knock him off stride. Hope he's up to the challenge, because these next two games are must wins.

 

[anomander]

The class was under-rated, and the best class quality-wise we've had in a long time. And the proof's in the pudding.

As I recall, you were one of the ones claiming that it wasn't different qualitatively than previous recent classes [counter to the point you're making].

Hey i'm not afraid to say I was wrong. The skill position guys definitely look like they have made an improvement. OL is TBD. Defense has always been strong.

 

[Crusty]

Love the kid's athletic ability--and he seems to have a lot of the natural tools to excel at QB.

I really don't know what to expect next week, though. I am afraid that he might really struggle against P5 defenses that sell out to blitz him and knock him off stride. Hope he's up to the challenge, because these next two games are must wins.

Always a concern with a true freshman,but I am betting that Lester will anticipate that and have plays to counter an aggressive blitzing defense. With that double wing formation there are a lot of blockers and potential safety valves.
If AJ could beat WF with McDonald's offense, I am thinking Dungey should be OK with Lester's. That gives us a month before we play UVA (Forget LSU). Kid will learn a lot in that time.

 

[RF2044]

Hey i'm not afraid to say I was wrong. The skill position guys definitely look like they have made an improvement. OL is TBD. Defense has always been strong.

Yeah, and thinking back, I think you were making the point more about HCSS perhaps not deserving being labeled as a strong recruiter and less about the class itself. Wasn't looking to call you out, just poking a little fun based upon your post above.

But in the main--your point above is solid. Quality classes = quality players, all else being equal. We're trending in the right direction.

 

[Jeepers]

Shafer getting us back into NJ tells me all I need to know about his recruiting vision. If they can win some games, watch out.

 

[anomander]

Yeah, and thinking back, I think you were making the point more about HCSS perhaps not deserving being labeled as a strong recruiter and less about the class itself. Wasn't looking to call you out, just poking a little fun based upon your post above.

But in the main--your point above is solid. Quality classes = quality players, all else being equal. We're trending in the right direction.

I think the point you are referring to that I have said quite a bit is the kids HCSS used to bring in from South Florida were just as good as the ones McFit brought in.

 

[CuseOnly]

The class of 2015 was the highest rated group we've landed in about 15+ years.

According to Skoot, there have been 4 classes in the previous 13 years that were equal to or better than this class.
According to 2.4.7 last years class was better than this one.
According to Rovals there have been 8 classes in the previous 13 years that were better than this one.

Actual class ranks above, not relying on what you think was the better class.

 

[CuseOnly]

Funny how those recruiting rankings work.

Funny how he's wrong.

 

[AZOrange]

agree that OL did not impress me

They were literally in the way every play. Seem so unathletic. Really the only disappointing part of the night. Because you can already see our fatal flaw.

 

[AZOrange]

I'm sorry but I agree with very little in your post.

To think that this staff has very little "win now" pressure is grossly underestimating competitive nature of the game. Another 3-9 season firmly puts Shafer's rear in the hot seat. It hurts recruiting, it hurts fan support, and it places his job security firmly into dicey territory. I'd say that's a hell of a lot of pressure.

Totally agree. Plus you have a brand new AD who I'm sure is chomping to stamp his program and given that he doesn't get a choice in hoops...

 

[Crusty]

Our 2009 schedule was just as hard as this one.
We played 3 Big Ten teams all three of those teams made bowl games. Cincinnati went undefeated that season. Pitt and West Virginia were top 25 teams that year and Rutgers, South Florida, and UConn all won 8 games that year.

Our 2009 team had less talent than this year and as KOIII said we were a competitive 4-8. With Greg Paulus and rFr Ryan Nassib spliting the QB play. This season has to be 5-7 or a good offense. If the offense isn't good I am sorry we need a new staff.

Your conclusion is only your opinion. A true freshman at the helm means nothing to you? Could not disagree more.

 

[anomander]

Funny how he's wrong.

It's not like he was off by a wide margin. I think the point still stands.

 

[Alsacs]

Your conclusion is only your opinion. A true freshman at the helm means nothing to you? Could not disagree more.

Please read my signature my god. Where the hell do I say people can't disagree. Jeez I get frustrated with messages like yours. The only thing that doesn't anger me is your last 4 words which are your opinion.
A true Freshman MEANS NOTHING WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE TEAMS WE PLAYED.
In 2009 we played 3 Big Ten teams and 7 Big East teams 1 MAC team, and 1 FCS team.
In 2015 we are playing 1 SEC team, 8 ACC teams, 1 American team, 1 MAC team, 1 FCS team.
Jeez, if you think this year is harder fine but please read my signature before you tell me I am talking in absolutes.

 

[anomander]

They were literally in the way every play. Seem so unathletic. Really the only disappointing part of the night. Because you can already see our fatal flaw.

imo the most disappointing part of it was that Trudo, and Foy were a part of the 2012 and 2013 OL's that were the best OL's we had in a long while, and Robinson was a starter on the 2013 OL, and Palmer was a partial contributor. That's 4 guys who have proven they are capable of being very good while an underclassmen. I'm just not buying that they got worse as their careers progressed.

I also have to go back and watch the game online, but the few times I focused on Shanley I saw guys run by him without him even touching a defender. Could have just been a coincidence those were the times I focused on him, but I think having Roberts in there gives us our best chance to win. I liked what i saw when he was in there, and I thought he looked in the couple scrimmages I saw. I can't see how a move isn't made and he's the starter sooner rather than later.

 

[Alsacs]

imo the most disappointing part of it was that Trudo, and Foy were a part of the 2012 and 2013 OL's that were the best OL's we had in a long while, and Robinson was a starter on the 2013 OL, and Palmer was a partial contributor. That's 4 guys who have proven they are capable of being very good while an underclassmen. I'm just not buying that they got worse as their careers progressed.

I also have to go back and watch the game online, but the few times I focused on Shanley I saw guys run by him without him even touching a defender. Could have just been a coincidence those were the times I focused on him, but I think having Roberts in there gives us our best chance to win. I liked what i saw when he was in there, and I thought he looked in the couple scrimmages I saw. I can't see how a move isn't made and he's the starter sooner rather than later.

Shanley played better than Trudo and Foy IMO. I watched the replay. Obviously we were very manilla in the 2nd half but LG/C were the weakest parts of that OL yesterday IMO. Overall they did well in run blocking as a unit but they need to improve the pass blocking now with a true Freshman QB.

 

[AZOrange]

imo the most disappointing part of it was that Trudo, and Foy were a part of the 2012 and 2013 OL's that were the best OL's we had in a long while, and Robinson was a starter on the 2013 OL, and Palmer was a partial contributor. That's 4 guys who have proven they are capable of being very good while an underclassmen. I'm just not buying that they got worse as their careers progressed.

I also have to go back and watch the game online, but the few times I focused on Shanley I saw guys run by him without him even touching a defender. Could have just been a coincidence those were the times I focused on him, but I think having Roberts in there gives us our best chance to win. I liked what i saw when he was in there, and I thought he looked in the couple scrimmages I saw. I can't see how a move isn't made and he's the starter sooner rather than later.

Yeah the experience is killer. The coaching and technique is bad IMO. Like you said, how can they be getting worse?

 

[Crusty]

Please read my signature my god. Where the hell do I say people can't disagree. Jeez I get frustrated with messages like yours. The only thing that doesn't anger me is your last 4 words which are your opinion.
A true Freshman MEANS NOTHING WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE TEAMS WE PLAYED.
In 2009 we played 3 Big Ten teams ad 7 Big East teams 1 MAC team, and 1 FCS team.
In 2015 we are playing 1 SEC team, 8 ACC teams, 1 American team, 1 MAC team, 1 FCS team.
Jeez, if you think this year is harder fine but please read my signature before you tell me I am talking in absolutes.

I will post what I damn please. If I want to ignore your signature for sake of emphasis I will. You are simply wrong. Who we played in 2009 or any other year has no bearing on evaluating the performance of a freshman QB in a completely different conference.

 

[AZOrange]

Shanley played better than Trudo and Foy IMO. I watched the replay. Obviously we were very manilla in the 2nd half but LG/C were the weakest parts of that OL yesterday IMO. Overall they did well in run blocking as a unit but they need to improve the pass blocking now with a true Freshman QB.

I've never been a Foy fan.

 

[anomander]

Shanley played better than Trudo and Foy IMO. I watched the replay. Obviously we were very manilla in the 2nd half but LG/C were the weakest parts of that OL yesterday IMO. Overall they did well in run blocking as a unit but they need to improve the pass blocking now with a true Freshman QB.

If that's the case then that's a huge problem. After Trudo's first 2 years I thought he had potential to play in the NFL at Center. He had a noticeable drop off last year, but I contributed some of it to injuries. Just really frustrating because there is just so much damn experience, and a track record of proven success with the core of the group.

Last year I thought our pass blocking was above average, but our run blocking was subpar. Next weekend will be very interesting to see how everything holds up.