Shafer has his built in excuse

[anomander]

I've never been a Foy fan.

I think Foy would be much better as a Guard. He was pretty good there as a Freshman. Then again so is Palmer. Problem is we don't have any true OT's on the team that can play that aren't true Freshman. Missing on Lasker hurt, and the McGolster, and Burton projects don't look like they panned out. X-Factor is Denzel Ward, but he just can't seem to get himself in playing shape, which could have something to do with his chronic LBI.

 

[AZOrange]

I think Foy would be much better as a Guard. He was pretty good there as a Freshman. Then again so is Palmer. Problem is we don't have any true OT's on the team that can play that aren't true Freshman. Missing on Lasker hurt, and the McGolster, and Burton projects don't look like they panned out. X-Factor is Denzel Ward, but he just can't seem to get himself in playing shape, which could have something to do with his chronic LBI.

Agreed

 

[Alsacs]

I will post what I damn please. If I want to ignore your signature for sake of emphasis I will. You are simply wrong. Who we played in 2009 or any other year has no bearing on evaluating the performance of a freshman QB in a completely different conference.

Congrats sir you are making a straw man argument. I don't care what the heck you post. However when somebody tells me I am doing something I am not doing I will not have it. You were attacking me because its safe. I don't care what opinion anybody has as long is not trolling and discourse.
If you think 2015 is tougher fine I honestly at this point will let your opinion go with no more response because your attack on me killed any chance for discourse between us.
My opinion may have been something you disagreed with and I can accept as everyone should people disagreeing with me because I am not always right.
Instead when you said my conclusion was my opinion you damn right it was and guess what you said nothing to disprove it.

 

[CuseOnly]

It's not like he was off by a wide margin. I think the point still stands.

Best RANKED recruiting class in 15+ years = false. Not only was it not the best ranked in 15+ years, every service had several higher rated classes over even a shorter period of time.

You can't lean on rankings then when they prove you wrong, then still say the point still stands. I posted the rankings, not sure if you saw.

My original point was that this class was not supposed to be as highly rated as others because everyone committed pretty early. People including you if I remember correctly said that this class was filled really fast so the staff could focus on 2016.

I am not a fan of recruiting rankings for this exact reason, I think they are a sham to generate money for the services and cater to the larger fan bases. The freshman class on campus right now is a great class and should have been rated a lot higher IMO.

 

[CIL]

In 2009 with a harder schedule and a QB who hadn't played the game in 4 years Marrone was able to go 4-8 and was a few plays away from 6-6. IMO anything less than a competitive 4-8 and Shafer should be shown the door.

Sorry don't know how I quotes you Otto.

imo the most disappointing part of it was that Trudo, and Foy were a part of the 2012 and 2013 OL's that were the best OL's we had in a long while, and Robinson was a starter on the 2013 OL, and Palmer was a partial contributor. That's 4 guys who have proven they are capable of being very good while an underclassmen. I'm just not buying that they got worse as their careers progressed.

I also have to go back and watch the game online, but the few times I focused on Shanley I saw guys run by him without him even touching a defender. Could have just been a coincidence those were the times I focused on him, but I think having Roberts in there gives us our best chance to win. I liked what i saw when he was in there, and I thought he looked in the couple scrimmages I saw. I can't see how a move isn't made and he's the starter sooner rather than later.

Huh? I watched the game live and then a good chunk of the replay. His block on the LB was responsible to Fredeticks long run. He looked every bit the part and I only saw him get beat once. He does a great job of reaching the second level in the run game. I have no problem with him starting right now.

 

[VaSaltine]

His point, dim bulb, was that we could have scored a bunch more on O but took our foot off the gas in the 2nd half.

We gave a true freshman walkon the bulk of the 2nd half carries.

Dim bulb, HA!! Thanks awesome. Gotta remember that one.

 

[PhatOrange]

The 2015 class was seriously under rated and many of us new it.

Nobody should get to high or low on dungey right now. He over threw a sure td by a mile that other qbs would be getting crushed for and his screen TD to Erv was luck - Erv bailed him out out with the circus catch.

He did some good and he made some mistakes. Let's hope the d stands tall and the line opens up the running game. If we can run it'll take pressure off. Dungey just needs to play within himself, manage the game and avoid crushing mistakes. I'm putting must of the responsibility on the line. They have to open up holes and protect him.

 

[anglerman]

Funny how those recruiting rankings work.

Omg you e

Funny how those recruiting rankings work.

you criticized the players in this class possibly more than any other person on earth. I don't want to hear about recruiting rankings.

 

[Crusty]

View attachment 50559
According to Skoot, there have been 4 classes in the previous 13 years that were equal to or better than this class.
According to 2.4.7 last years class was better than this one.
According to Rovals there have been 8 classes in the previous 13 years that were better than this one.

Actual class ranks above, not relying on what you think was the better class.

Aren't those influenced by class size?

 

[dasher]

Aren't those influenced by class size?

Yes of course they are.

 

[Crusty]

Yes of course they are.

Which pretty much makes those type of tables meaningless with respect to year-to -year relative ranking.

 

[anomander]

Sorry don't know how I quotes you Otto.



Huh? I watched the game live and then a good chunk of the replay. His block on the LB was responsible to Fredeticks long run. He looked every bit the part and I only saw him get beat once. He does a great job of reaching the second level in the run game. I have no problem with him starting right now.

Like I said I focused on him a FEW times.

Omg you e

you criticized the players in this class possibly more than any other person on earth. I don't want to hear about recruiting rankings.

What are you talking about. Just because I don't go ga-ga over every single recruit we bring in doesn't mean I critical of the entire class. In fact I guarantee you there weren't more than 4 players in a 26 man recruiting class that I was negative about. I'm so positive in that fact that if you can go and prove that I was critical with more then 4 recruits I won't ever post again. Plus add to the fact 2 of the guys I WAS critical about Shafer ended up dropping from the class for the same damn reason I was critical (despite everyone's praise for uncovering those diamonds in the rough). You're so far up Shafer's a$$s any small criticism of him you take as a personal assault. So i'll talk about my recruiting rankings just as much as I damn well please, unless of course you can go back and prove your usual over the top claim about my criticism of last years recruiting class.

Go ahead, i'll be waiting. 4 recruits.

 

[CuseOnly]

Which pretty much makes those type of tables meaningless with respect to year-to -year relative ranking.

They all use a points system that take into account the class size. I don't like the ranking system, think the whole thing is useless. But someone used it as a point to say that this freshman class was the best in 15+ years.

All I was doing was illustrating that by the rankings, he was wrong.

 

[RMH44]

But there are differences too. It was clear right away with Long that he didn't have the arm to play at this level yet. His great strength was escapability, making something out of nothing. Dungey showed last night at least that he's got enough zip on the ball to make completions against higher level competition. His release is quick and fluid. He also showed that he's got enough wheels to extend a play if necessary. He looks to be a mix of Wilson and Long.

ED is a far better athlete than either kid...not even close. It also appears that his has the poise and pocket presence well beyond his years. Hopefully he can build on last night's performance and get us past WF next week.

 

[Crusty]

They all use a points system that take into account the class size. I don't like the ranking system, think the whole thing is useless. But someone used it as a point to say that this freshman class was the best in 15+ years.

All I was doing was illustrating that by the rankings, he was wrong.

I understand. I just think it is a poor yardstick for that particular point. I happen to agree with it, bu no real way to prove or disprove the point. I happen t

 

[dasher]

They all use a points system that take into account the class size. I don't like the ranking system, think the whole thing is useless. But someone used it as a point to say that this freshman class was the best in 15+ years.

All I was doing was illustrating that by the rankings, he was wrong.

I think and could be wrong, but that poster was saying that the average star rating of all of the players in last years class was the highest in 15 years. I might be wrong. I believe if that is what he meant, he would be correct. Someone had posted that very recently.

 

[Crusty]

I think and could be wrong, but that poster was saying that the average star rating of all of the players in last years class was the highest in 15 years. I might be wrong. I believe if that is what he meant, he would be correct. Someone had posted that very recently.

Could be.

 

[CuseOnly]

I think and could be wrong, but that poster was saying that the average star rating of all of the players in last years class was the highest in 15 years. I might be wrong. I believe if that is what he meant, he would be correct. Someone had posted that very recently.

Isn't what he said, words used were highest ranked class in 15+ years. Not highest average recruit rating in 15+ years which is an entirely different argument altogether.

Again, I hate the rating systems and think they are fundamentally flawed. It's great for perception when you are doing well but not good when you aren't. It's all cannon fodder.

 

[dasher]

Isn't what he said, words used were highest ranked class in 15+ years. Not highest average recruit rating in 15+ years which is an entirely different argument altogether.

Again, I hate the rating systems and think they are fundamentally flawed. It's great for perception when you are doing well but not good when you aren't. It's all cannon fodder.

The reason I say this is because we had a thread not long ago which showed exactly what I just said. I'm sure the poster saw that. It's funny because my thought was that this is the best we have recruited in a long time. I don't care about class ratings. I don't care about stars. I care about offers. having said that, if your average guy has the highest star rating in say 15 years, i would say that is your best recruiting class. Unless of course, you only have 2 or 3 recruits. All in all, it seems like much ado about nothing.

 

[RF2044]

View attachment 50559
According to Skoot, there have been 4 classes in the previous 13 years that were equal to or better than this class.
According to 2.4.7 last years class was better than this one.
According to Rovals there have been 8 classes in the previous 13 years that were better than this one.

Actual class ranks above, not relying on what you think was the better class.

I'll admit that based upon the ratings only, I was wrong [even if those ratings are patently goofy, in historical retrospect]. But I think it was pretty clear what I was implying, so allow me to rebut:

#1, you moved the goal posts to incorporate "on or about" logic. Based upon raw rankings alone, Skout only had three times when classes were ranked higher. One was the vastly overrated class of 2007, spearheaded by 4-star Andrey Baskin and Romale Tucker. So that rating is bunk. If you subtract them from the equation, since neither came close to playing a down, that rating drops precipitously. Another was at 49--BFD--and the other one was 13 years ago and a total outlier to the rest of the data.

#2, Rivals is the equivalent of Lindey's magazine in terms of credibility. So while it is not surprising that their rating for the class of 2015 was out of whack, it actually undermines your credibility to point to their ratings as a source of "truth."

I'm actually very surprised that 2.4.7 rated the class of 2014 higher than our class of 2015, because in general they tend to be better than the other recruiting services. But make no mistake: the offer lists of our prospects is an even better barometer, and at no time since the Coach P era have we begun to garner prospects with the same level of national caliber offers as in the class of 2015 [and 2016], and the overall rating of each prospect in the class relative to other classes is better. Anomander's point above is when you land good classes, good results follow. And he is 100% right. The class of 2015 was our best class in more than 15 years, bar none. They began demonstrating that last night, and they will continue to prove it throughout the year.

Classes like that help you turn the corner. Classes like 2007, 2005, etc. do not. The results on the field bear that out.

 

[RF2044]

Isn't what he said, words used were highest ranked class in 15+ years. Not highest average recruit rating in 15+ years which is an entirely different argument altogether.

Again, I hate the rating systems and think they are fundamentally flawed. It's great for perception when you are doing well but not good when you aren't. It's all cannon fodder.

Oy vey. Okay, captain pedantic.

You can continue to beat the drum that the class of 2015 isn't our best class since the Coach P era. You can keep Andrey Baskin and Averin Collier--I'll take the class of 2015.

 

[RF2044]

The reason I say this is because we had a thread not long ago which showed exactly what I just said. I'm sure the poster saw that. It's funny because my thought was that this is the best we have recruited in a long time. I don't care about class ratings. I don't care about stars. I care about offers. having said that, if your average guy has the highest star rating in say 15 years, i would say that is your best recruiting class. Unless of course, you only have 2 or 3 recruits. All in all, it seems like much ado about nothing.

Spot on. And it isn't even close.

 

[CuseOnly]

Oy vey. Okay, captain pedantic.

You can continue to beat the drum that the class of 2015 isn't our best class since the Coach P era. You can keep Andrey Baskin and Averin Collier--I'll take the class of 2015.

I will keep the class of 2015 as well, thank you! As I said in an earlier post, they should have been ranked much higher than they were but with recruiting service bias and the general bullshlit of recruiting and rankings by employees of the services that have never played a down, they are what they are.

I am not a rankings believer, just don't use them to prove a point when they don't. You can dig into the granular tidbits of it but those are the posted rankings.

 

[RF2044]

I will keep the class of 2015 as well, thank you! As I said in an earlier post, they should have been ranked much higher than they were but with recruiting service bias and the general bullshlit of recruiting and rankings by employees of the services that have never played a down, they are what they are.

I am not a rankings believer, just don't use them to prove a point when they don't. You can dig into the granular tidbits of it but those are the posted rankings.

Okay, I don't think we're actually that far off. Not worth fighting over [let's go orange!].

But I do have to insist that qualitatively, there are several other data points which baseline the difference between the class of 2015 and the pond we were swimming in the previous decade plus. But I do acknowledge your point.

 

[Delmar]

I think Foy would be much better as a Guard. He was pretty good there as a Freshman. Then again so is Palmer. Problem is we don't have any true OT's on the team that can play that aren't true Freshman. Missing on Lasker hurt, and the McGolster, and Burton projects don't look like they panned out. X-Factor is Denzel Ward, but he just can't seem to get himself in playing shape, which could have something to do with his chronic LBI.

I had to look up LBI. Where I come from LBI is Long Beach Island. I could use some chronic Long Beach Island.