Shafer Transfers

[bcubs9497]

This thread sounds to me like we need to give everyone a participation trophy! If we really need to feel sorry for every student athlete that something doesn't go their way, we will be here for a long time! Are we going to continue to make excuses for people who aren't good enough and always give them a pass? Sports is just like business, the best succeed and everyone else finds their place down the pecking order. If my manager gets fired or leaves the company and all of a sudden I have a new manager, I work my butt off to impress them and show how I can fit in with their goals. things like this happen at every program and in my opinion, helps teach these young athletes how to overcome adversity.

Say that when it's your kid...

 

[Bambrewer]

Say that when it's your kid...

Or hey how about proving my point... when the guy who hired you leaves and the new guy thinks your not the right fit.. you have the option to go to a place your skill does fit... these kids don't have that.

 

[orangeinjersey]

Or hey how about proving my point... when the guy who hired you leaves and the new guy thinks your not the right fit.. you have the option to go to a place your skill does fit... these kids don't have that.

But they do Bam, they can drop a level or sit out. Those are the rules of the game. Not saying its fair, but its the system in place and these kids sign up for it, correct?

A better analogy would be you get an internship (small commitment). Great company, great project. Your boss is fired, and the new guy doesnt think youre a great fit. But you signed a contract. Do you stay for the experience or do you leave to go somewhere else?

Ive stuck around at a job that i was being underpaid at in order to stay on a really great project for the experience. When the project was done, it went on my resume and i flipped it into a better job with much better pay.

Again, means to an end. it sucks, i get it. These kids (all transfers everywhere) are getting a dose of reality. I get it. But you have to learn from these things.

 

[Antiprodigy]

Or hey how about proving my point... when the guy who hired you leaves and the new guy thinks your not the right fit.. you have the option to go to a place your skill does fit... these kids don't have that.

Bam,

I absolutely agree with your viewpoint. The situation can not be compared to real life, because it really does not match any other real life situation. It would be equivalent to your company telling you that they no longer want your services, but that you were not allowed to work for anyone else.

The real problem is that there are coaches and universities that would use these allowances to their advantage and the universities that would suffer, are the one's who are already suffering through a management change. And everyone knows this. In large part because of the vast amount of monetary incentive the system generates. There is no large monetary incentive in most sports and lower levels of football, so there is no need to limit player movement. Money creates greed, and money corrupts.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I've decided I'm going to deconstruct this as diplomatically as possible.

This thread sounds to me like we need to give everyone a participation trophy! If we really need to feel sorry for every student athlete that something doesn't go their way, we will be here for a long time!

Most guys who have always been the studs on their high school teams don't want to continue their college careers on the bench. They want to play, prove themselves, and go on to the NFL. Realistic or not, everyone wants a fair shake. And why wouldn't we feel bad for guys who didn't get a shot? Don't we all want them to succeed at Syracuse?

Are we going to continue to make excuses for people who aren't good enough and always give them a pass?

Not good enough isn't always the case. There's fit into system, fit into culture, philosophical differences, etc. And so what if a player isn't as good as he was scouted to be? Doesn't mean he should be dead to us. These guys are human, you know.

Sports is just like business, the best succeed and everyone else finds their place down the pecking order. If my manager gets fired or leaves the company and all of a sudden I have a new manager, I work my butt off to impress them and show how I can fit in with their goals.

As others have said, you have the option of switching careers/companies if you're unhappy. Your options in D1 college athletics are to quit or to change schools with penalty. And working as hard as you can isn't going to always be enough. If you do all you can and your manager doesn't think you're of high quality, wouldn't you look to move on?

Things like this happen at every program and in my opinion, helps teach these young athletes how to overcome adversity.

Sticking things out is not always the answer. Patience won't make an unwinnable situation somehow better. These guys are investing time and their bodies into a pretty improbable dream and only have a few years to do it. If a player thinks he can get to the NFL at a different school, so be it. If they possess a commodity that is valued elsewhere, why not take advantage of that?

I think you're implying that these guys are just spoiled, entitled millennials, when it's really guys trying to maximize their small, rapidly closing opportunity to play college ball.

 

[javadoc]

Or hey how about proving my point... when the guy who hired you leaves and the new guy thinks your not the right fit.. you have the option to go to a place your skill does fit... these kids don't have that.

If kids could transfer out it might also give the admin pause to dump coaches prematurely.

 

[orangeinjersey]

If kids could transfer out it might also give the admin pause to dump coaches prematurely.

i doubt it. For every Schiano and the guy from Colorado, there are a million Greg Robinsons. If after 3 years, you have less than 10 wins total, the deck is stacked against you. You wont get the recruits becuase you will have shown that in 3 years you cant "coach up". It becomes a self fulfilling circle.

 

[Nick44]

This is a great thread, tons of great insight. Let's switch it up and talk about uniforms for 2017. Sound good?

 

[orangefog]

there is no good way to deliver bad news. Like a gf breaking up with you, or your boss telling you you are being laid off. It sucks, but life is full of these scenarios. Learn from it and move on.

I always thought that those barbershop quartet singing messages really got the point across in a delightfully disarming way on even the most unwelcome news.

 

[Bambrewer]

I've decided I'm going to deconstruct this as diplomatically as possible.
Most guys who have always been the studs on their high school teams don't want to continue their college careers on the bench. They want to play, prove themselves, and go on to the NFL. Realistic or not, everyone wants a fair shake. And why wouldn't we feel bad for guys who didn't get a shot? Don't we all want them to succeed at Syracuse?

Not good enough isn't always the case. There's fit into system, fit into culture, philosophical differences, etc. And so what if a player isn't as good as he was scouted to be? Doesn't mean he should be dead to us. These guys are human, you know.

As others have said, you have the option of switching careers/companies if you're unhappy. Your options in D1 college athletics are to quit or to change schools with penalty. And working as hard as you can isn't going to always be enough. If you do all you can and your manager doesn't think you're of high quality, wouldn't you look to move on?

Sticking things out is not always the answer. Patience won't make an unwinnable situation somehow better. These guys are investing time and their bodies into a pretty improbable dream and only have a few years to do it. If a player thinks he can get to the NFL at a different school, so be it. If they possess a commodity that is valued elsewhere, why not take advantage of that?

I think you're implying that these guys are just spoiled, entitled millennials, when it's really guys trying to maximize their small, rapidly closing opportunity to play college ball.

This for the win leymoynecuse drops the mic

 

[rocklloyd]

This is a great thread, tons of great insight. Let's switch it up and talk about uniforms for 2017. Sound good?

How about scheduling

 

[djorange1989]

Say that when it's your kid...

Yep, empathy seems to be a tough thing for some people. Neither of my daughters will ever play sports in college(they don't play now, so never happening), but it's plain to me that the system is a mess and it screws kids over. The "hey, just transfer" line is easy to say when it's not your son or daughter.

 

[TheCusian]

How about a waiver-wire? Will never happen, but:

- Player decides to join waiver wire. Player must leave school they are currently attending OR continue on as a student, but no sports during this period.
- Players on waiver wire can be contacted by other coaches, but not inside of the same conference OR if the other team is on the schedule for the next year (this helps with paranoia coaches have).
- A kid's clock has 12 months from when they are joined the waiver wire until they are able to be in any team activities (practice, film study, etc.). This shortens the penalty somewhat, especially when a player makes a decision early.
- Player can rejoin current team during the wire period with no penalty, but can only enter the waiver wire once.

 

[PhatOrange]

If kids aren't in good academic standing then transferring out hurts the schools APR.

 

[Bambrewer]

How about a waiver-wire? Will never happen, but:

- Player decides to join waiver wire. Player must leave school they are currently attending OR continue on as a student, but no sports during this period.
- Players on waiver wire can be contacted by other coaches, but not inside of the same conference OR if the other team is on the schedule for the next year (this helps with paranoia coaches have).
- A kid's clock has 12 months from when they are joined the waiver wire until they are able to be in any team activities (practice, film study, etc.). This shortens the penalty somewhat, especially when a player makes a decision early.
- Player can rejoin current team during the wire period with no penalty, but can only enter the waiver wire once.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[dasher]

The NCAA?

Looking out for the best interests of a student athlete?

Maybe in the Fringe Alternate Universe.

Think of the NCAA as a pep band..

 

[dasher]

But they do Bam, they can drop a level or sit out. Those are the rules of the game. Not saying its fair, but its the system in place and these kids sign up for it, correct?

A better analogy would be you get an internship (small commitment). Great company, great project. Your boss is fired, and the new guy doesnt think youre a great fit. But you signed a contract. Do you stay for the experience or do you leave to go somewhere else?

Ive stuck around at a job that i was being underpaid at in order to stay on a really great project for the experience. When the project was done, it went on my resume and i flipped it into a better job with much better pay.

Again, means to an end. it sucks, i get it. These kids (all transfers everywhere) are getting a dose of reality. I get it. But you have to learn from these things.

Really not a good analogy. These kids get one shot. An intern can get another shot and if they don't, it's not the end of the line. These kids get one shot. Maybe two. and then it's the real world. You really can't compare the two examples.

 

[Kelly029x]

I find the NCAA rules to blame. The way it is set up kids have little choice in their future. This situation is an extreme case. This is taking an offense and a defense of existing players recruited for one system and then putting in a totally opposite system. A lot of kids are staying because they can't talk with other coaches to see if they would have a home. Some kids stay and play in a system that doesn't showcase their skills. Some kids stay because they don't want to sit a year. And some kids leave. I can tell you from talking with a lot of the players at the Bc game there is a lot of kids who are in this situation. Their is some kids who won't play here but are going to stay and get their education. It is very unfair a coach can pack up and switch schools to improve their future but kids have little choice. Then throw in when a conference says you can switch schools but you can't go to another school in conference. Kids are trapped. Many kids who at no fault of their own will not have a chance to show they are a great player. All these kids came here to play football. They all had dreams of making the league. Many are seeing that dream disappear this year and I'm crushed for them. I will tell you I am happy to say at year end meetings Shy was told they want him here for this system. They told Shy he is a good fit for their system and his shoulder injury over last summer held him back this year but they are exploring a lot of different ideas with Shy this spring... so this isn't a rant about my son being screwed. I'm feel very blessed Shy is wanted here. I am sad for the other kids and families who got different talks and are dealing with the reality of college ball.

Well said There is so much fans don't know, will never know, and we won't/can't say. That is what is called moving on, and getting over it. This is a dream that these kids have worked for, and us parents have paid a lot of money to help them stand out and excel. I know Trey has taken nothing for granted and has learned to adapt and keep his eyes on the prize. Wish the BEST for Steve and Shy GREAT kids and great parents!

 

[money3189]

Well said There is so much fans don't know, will never know, and we won't/can't say. That is what is called moving on, and getting over it. This is a dream that these kids have worked for, and us parents have paid a lot of money to help them stand out and excel. I know Trey has taken nothing for granted and has learned to adapt and keep his eyes on the prize. Wish the BEST for Steve and Shy GREAT kids and great parents!

I sat behind you at the spring game. Not sure if you remember. I wish Trey and your family well.

 

[Kelly029x]

I sat behind you at the spring game. Not sure if you remember. I wish Trey and your family well.

I do!!

 

[nzm136]

If Coyle had handled things a LOT more diplomatically, it wouldn't have been as dicey as it was. We've got roughly 5ish now transferring out, right? I know for a fact the count could've been MUCH higher.

Coyle is an unmitigated moron, and I am beyond glad that he's the B1G's problem now. His only saving grace is that his name isn't "Oliver Luck."

Have fun Minnesota.

 

[Bambrewer]

Well said There is so much fans don't know, will never know, and we won't/can't say. That is what is called moving on, and getting over it. This is a dream that these kids have worked for, and us parents have paid a lot of money to help them stand out and excel. I know Trey has taken nothing for granted and has learned to adapt and keep his eyes on the prize. Wish the BEST for Steve and Shy GREAT kids and great parents!

Absolutly. I love reading fans ideas about what they think is going on and how the staff is handling things. Truth is most have no clue. I guess having no idea what it's like to have a dream and be this close to that dream will never be comprehended by them. When these kids played pop warner you were always told they will never play d1. It's one in a million. Then high school came and these kids were told they won't play d1 but as years went on and people started noticing they were different than the 100s of other kids from their state who didn't get a chance to play in college they began to dream. Then colleges coaches came along and told them they were the greatest. They could play on the d1 level. That they believed in them. That they would be the guy who goes on to the NFL. And those kids bought in. They came out and worked. And the coaches worked and told them to get on the field or next year you will be the guy. But then that coach has to leave. And then new coach changes stuff. And suddenly the guy who last year was the star of campus or was waiting to be the guy is now sitting on the bench wondering what the hell happened to his dream. These fans have no idea what it would be like to have a coach call you into his office and tell you that even though you have been told you were great you won't play here... you can sit here and watch or you can get penalized and try somewhere else. You can drop a level. You can sit a year. You can roll the dice and see if someone will take you. I guess to people who have never been close to their dreams it's easy to say get over it move on. I guess they haven't had a chance. But I do know these kids who fans are so quick to cast off. I sat at the hotel talking with many of these kids who had their talks and I saw their confusion about how this happened. I saw them choke up telling me what the coach said. They told me how they didn't know what to do. Fans don't see that but I guess that is what makes being a fan fun. You don't have to deal with the reality of behind the scenes. I wish trey nothing but the best. I hope he kills it at the next school. I will be watching and hoping for him.

 

[kcsu]

Absolutly. I love reading fans ideas about what they think is going on and how the staff is handling things. Truth is most have no clue. I guess having no idea what it's like to have a dream and be this close to that dream will never be comprehended by them. When these kids played pop warner you were always told they will never play d1. It's one in a million. Then high school came and these kids were told they won't play d1 but as years went on and people started noticing they were different than the 100s of other kids from their state who didn't get a chance to play in college they began to dream. Then colleges coaches came along and told them they were the greatest. They could play on the d1 level. That they believed in them. That they would be the guy who goes on to the NFL. And those kids bought in. They came out and worked. And the coaches worked and told them to get on the field or next year you will be the guy. But then that coach has to leave. And then new coach changes stuff. And suddenly the guy who last year was the star of campus or was waiting to be the guy is now sitting on the bench wondering what the hell happened to his dream. These fans have no idea what it would be like to have a coach call you into his office and tell you that even though you have been told you were great you won't play here... you can sit here and watch or you can get penalized and try somewhere else. You can drop a level. You can sit a year. You can roll the dice and see if someone will take you. I guess to people who have never been close to their dreams it's easy to say get over it move on. I guess they haven't had a chance. But I do know these kids who fans are so quick to cast off. I sat at the hotel talking with many of these kids who had their talks and I saw their confusion about how this happened. I saw them choke up telling me what the coach said. They told me how they didn't know what to do. Fans don't see that but I guess that is what makes being a fan fun. You don't have to deal with the reality of behind the scenes. I wish trey nothing but the best. I hope he kills it at the next school. I will be watching and hoping for him.

Great post.

 

[crales44]

Absolutly. I love reading fans ideas about what they think is going on and how the staff is handling things. Truth is most have no clue. I guess having no idea what it's like to have a dream and be this close to that dream will never be comprehended by them. When these kids played pop warner you were always told they will never play d1. It's one in a million. Then high school came and these kids were told they won't play d1 but as years went on and people started noticing they were different than the 100s of other kids from their state who didn't get a chance to play in college they began to dream. Then colleges coaches came along and told them they were the greatest. They could play on the d1 level. That they believed in them. That they would be the guy who goes on to the NFL. And those kids bought in. They came out and worked. And the coaches worked and told them to get on the field or next year you will be the guy. But then that coach has to leave. And then new coach changes stuff. And suddenly the guy who last year was the star of campus or was waiting to be the guy is now sitting on the bench wondering what the hell happened to his dream. These fans have no idea what it would be like to have a coach call you into his office and tell you that even though you have been told you were great you won't play here... you can sit here and watch or you can get penalized and try somewhere else. You can drop a level. You can sit a year. You can roll the dice and see if someone will take you. I guess to people who have never been close to their dreams it's easy to say get over it move on. I guess they haven't had a chance. But I do know these kids who fans are so quick to cast off. I sat at the hotel talking with many of these kids who had their talks and I saw their confusion about how this happened. I saw them choke up telling me what the coach said. They told me how they didn't know what to do. Fans don't see that but I guess that is what makes being a fan fun. You don't have to deal with the reality of behind the scenes. I wish trey nothing but the best. I hope he kills it at the next school. I will be watching and hoping for him.

Thanks for posting this. Your message isn't going to get through to everyone on here, but I, for one, really appreciate the perspective.

 

[richard levy]

Absolutly. I love reading fans ideas about what they think is going on and how the staff is handling things. Truth is most have no clue. I guess having no idea what it's like to have a dream and be this close to that dream will never be comprehended by them. When these kids played pop warner you were always told they will never play d1. It's one in a million. Then high school came and these kids were told they won't play d1 but as years went on and people started noticing they were different than the 100s of other kids from their state who didn't get a chance to play in college they began to dream. Then colleges coaches came along and told them they were the greatest. They could play on the d1 level. That they believed in them. That they would be the guy who goes on to the NFL. And those kids bought in. They came out and worked. And the coaches worked and told them to get on the field or next year you will be the guy. But then that coach has to leave. And then new coach changes stuff. And suddenly the guy who last year was the star of campus or was waiting to be the guy is now sitting on the bench wondering what the hell happened to his dream. These fans have no idea what it would be like to have a coach call you into his office and tell you that even though you have been told you were great you won't play here... you can sit here and watch or you can get penalized and try somewhere else. You can drop a level. You can sit a year. You can roll the dice and see if someone will take you. I guess to people who have never been close to their dreams it's easy to say get over it move on. I guess they haven't had a chance. But I do know these kids who fans are so quick to cast off. I sat at the hotel talking with many of these kids who had their talks and I saw their confusion about how this happened. I saw them choke up telling me what the coach said. They told me how they didn't know what to do. Fans don't see that but I guess that is what makes being a fan fun. You don't have to deal with the reality of behind the scenes. I wish trey nothing but the best. I hope he kills it at the next school. I will be watching and hoping for him.

I respect what you are saying. I see it differently. I had two daughters excel in sports in sports where there really is no professional league, both recruited to play D1 and had coaches calling to recruit them. They loved to play, spent their summers training, traveling and in summer camps. But my daughters saw it as a way to get into a better school, recognizing that sports has a short shelf-life, and wanted to go to a school that would prepare them for the rest of their lives, the next 40 years, not the next four years. One daughter did not continue her sport. The other did, but at a D3 school , Amherst, a school that she might not have gotten into if not for her sport. That coach left, but my daughter liked the school, continued to compete, loved the school, had friends, and still was able to compete. In her freshman year, she went to practice, the same afternoon before a 7PM Chem test. I gave her grief over that, but she continued to do that. Her odds of getting into grad school were infinitely better than getting to the highest levels of her sport