Should we brag about it?

[SWC75]

In a thread on the basketball recruiting board, (about Donnie Freeman), a poster playfully speculated that, based on previous recruiting success, maybe Red Autry “will go to USC with Dino”. Suddenly, the realization that both our major revenue sports had African American coaches popped into may head. I asked if that was true at any other power 5 school and someone responded that it used to be true at Penn State but they fired their basketball coach and hired a ‘Euro-American’ but Notre Dame has hired an ‘AA’ to replace Mike Brey, so they just joined the group of two, (I haven’t attempted to verify that). At a point where I thought we were the only one, I felt that was both “cool and uncool”. Another poster wondered “Why does it even matter?” I suggested that “if it didn’t matter, we wouldn’t be the only one.”

One of our board firefights broke out.
A poster labeled it “progressive” to have two AA coaches in the most important positions. Another said “whether we like it or not...race and representation IS an issue.”
A responder said “It’s only an issue because many groups in this country continually want to make it an issue…Dino and Red are the coaches of our programs because they earned the coaching job, not because they are black. Why don’t we try not making race (or gender for that matter) an issue for once.”
That produced this volley: “I see it this way. If the AA community finds it important to celebrate then it's asinine to ridicule them for it. Let it be the choice of those it truly matters to. Otherwise just ignore it like we would a million other factoids.”
Another: “You mean it's only an issue because some groups want to complain about the lack of opportunity that is given to a group that I don't belong to. The nerve of those groups. Other AA have earned it and haven't got the jobs they should have got. It's easy to think it isn't important when you belong to the group that has always got the jobs.”
And: “It's not just about many groups " continually wanting to make it an issue", it's mentioned and brought up precisely because it IS an issue. If your point is we should ignore it, or not mention it, or act like it doesn't exist, that's a personal perspective, born of your own personal experience. The opposite of that is whether those in other groups have the same privilege, the same luxury, to offer their perspective, based on their own life experiences. And let's be clear, this is not a right or privilege that was always historically available for those same groups in the past. If it matters to them to bring it up, then it shouldn't be a problem for anyone else.”

At this point is was suggested that a separate thread be set to discuss this as it had nothing directly to do with Donnie Freeman. I decided to post it to both the football and basketball boards as it’s relevant to both.

Do you think we should ignore the fact that we’ve got African Americans in the two most important coaching positions because that’s the way it should be?

Should we ignore that we are one of only two power five schools that have that situation? Why is it so uncommon? Should an issue be made of it?

Should we be bragging about it? (I feel strongly that both men would be uncomfortable with that.) Would that imply that they didn’t get the positions based on merit?

 

[baggerbob]

In a thread on the basketball recruiting board, (about Donnie Freeman), a poster playfully speculated that, based on previous recruiting success, maybe Red Autry “will go to USC with Dino”. Suddenly, the realization that both our major revenue sports had African American coaches popped into may head. I asked if that was true at any other power 5 school and someone responded that it used to be true at Penn State but they fired their basketball coach and hired a ‘Euro-American’ but Notre Dame has hired an ‘AA’ to replace Mike Brey, so they just joined the group of two, (I haven’t attempted to verify that). At a point where I thought we were the only one, I felt that was both “cool and uncool”. Another poster wondered “Why does it even matter?” I suggested that “if it didn’t matter, we wouldn’t be the only one.”

One of our board firefights broke out.
A poster labeled it “progressive” to have two AA coaches in the most important positions. Another said “whether we like it or not...race and representation IS an issue.”
A responder said “It’s only an issue because many groups in this country continually want to make it an issue…Dino and Red are the coaches of our programs because they earned the coaching job, not because they are black. Why don’t we try not making race (or gender for that matter) an issue for once.”
That produced this volley: “I see it this way. If the AA community finds it important to celebrate then it's asinine to ridicule them for it. Let it be the choice of those it truly matters to. Otherwise just ignore it like we would a million other factoids.”
Another: “You mean it's only an issue because some groups want to complain about the lack of opportunity that is given to a group that I don't belong to. The nerve of those groups. Other AA have earned it and haven't got the jobs they should have got. It's easy to think it isn't important when you belong to the group that has always got the jobs.”
And: “It's not just about many groups " continually wanting to make it an issue", it's mentioned and brought up precisely because it IS an issue. If your point is we should ignore it, or not mention it, or act like it doesn't exist, that's a personal perspective, born of your own personal experience. The opposite of that is whether those in other groups have the same privilege, the same luxury, to offer their perspective, based on their own life experiences. And let's be clear, this is not a right or privilege that was always historically available for those same groups in the past. If it matters to them to bring it up, then it shouldn't be a problem for anyone else.”

At this point is was suggested that a separate thread be set to discuss this as it had nothing directly to do with Donnie Freeman. I decided to post it to both the football and basketball boards as it’s relevant to both.

Do you think we should ignore the fact that we’ve got African Americans in the two most important coaching positions because that’s the way it should be?

Should we ignore that we are one of only two power five schools that have that situation? Why is it so uncommon? Should an issue be made of it?

Should we be bragging about it? (I feel strongly that both men would be uncomfortable with that.) Would that imply that they didn’t get the positions based on merit?

The problem is that it's 2023, and we are still talking about it.
By this time it should be common place, but isn't.
I have nothing more to say.

 

[kcsu]

The problem is that it's 2023, and we are still talking about it.
By this time it should be common place, but isn't.
I have nothing more to say.

Race Religion Politics Sports.
Which of the above doesn’t belong?

 

[Niastri]

I won't be reading this thread, simply because I feel the racists will reveal themselves and I want to like all of you.

 

[Eric15]

"Bragging" would be weird. But it's certainly a positive thing and I hope both guys can be our coaches for a long time.

 

[Brooky03]

People can’t pretend race doesn’t exist. It is cool that we have two black coaches in the two major college sports. It is worth mentioning. Mentioning it does not detract from their worth or the merits of their careers that earned them the jobs.

 

[CA Monk]

FWIW. It never crossed my mind and I usually notice such things. Is it the new normal? Probably in sports it is. Generally speaking, race in sports and the military are 2 racial success stories.
I hope I’m not going to be disappointed I posted this.

 

[Grbac]

I personally don’t think there is enough representation in coaching of all races and nationalities. Basketball is a world wide sport. We have a very diverse pool of players from all countries and all colors. Shouldn’t just be white dudes getting head coaching jobs. I think it’s great when any black, bi-racial, Hispanic, or any nationality guy gets a chance.

If getting attention for hiring a minority is what it takes to make it happen more often then maybe we should brag about it.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I wouldn't say brag, but yes, we should acknowledge it and celebrate it.

There will come a time in the world when it isn't meaningful, but it is meaningful now.

 

[Orangezoo]

I personally don’t think there is enough representation in coaching of all races and nationalities. Basketball is a world wide sport. We have a very diverse pool of players from all countries and all colors. Shouldn’t just be white dudes getting head coaching jobs. I think it’s great when any black, bi-racial, Hispanic, or any nationality guy gets a chance.

If getting attention for hiring a minority is what it takes to make it happen more often then maybe we should brag about it.

And we need to stop complaining about it being recognized. There is no harm coming to someone such that they must complain it's being noticed. That complaining is what sparks unnecessary arguments and vitriol.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Also, FLJ

 

[Orangezoo]

Its certainly a positive thing, however its a demerit to Dino and Red to suggest its part of the reasoning why they’re there. They earned their spots, especially Red.

Should also be celebrated when appropriate

The part of that being the reason they are their is a narrative and not a good one. Tends to be the unnecessary editorialization that comes with things like this. It's also certainly not those celebrating it who are making that case.

 

[Chip]

I wouldn't say brag, but yes, we should acknowledge it and celebrate it.

There will come a time in the world when it isn't meaningful, but it is meaningful now.

Yeah, if you brag about it, it sort of cheapens it for the coaches. As if you only picked them because of it.

They were both highly qualified. You let the outside media/pundits do the bragging for you.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Race doesn't appear to have been a factor in choosing either coach.
THAT is something to brag about.

Now let's hope they're both very successful.

 

[dasher]

FWIW. It never crossed my mind and I usually notice such things. Is it the new normal? Probably in sports it is. Generally speaking, race in sports and the military are 2 racial success stories.
I hope I’m not going to be disappointed I posted this.

We only came up with 2 schools in the entire country that have AA's as their football and hoop coaches in D-1. It really isn't a success story.

 

[SWC75]

I won't be reading this thread, simply because I feel the racists will reveal themselves and I want to like all of you.

I don't think any racists will reveal themselves because neither position is 'racist'.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Race Religion Politics Sports.
Which of the above doesn’t belong?

They are all connected.

 

[br801]

FWIW. It never crossed my mind and I usually notice such things. Is it the new normal? Probably in sports it is. Generally speaking, race in sports and the military are 2 racial success stories.
I hope I’m not going to be disappointed I posted this.

It never occurred to me either. That can only be a good thing.

 

[br801]

I don't think any racists will reveal themselves because neither position is 'racist'.

You're a wide-eyed optimist.

 

[kcsu]

We only came up with 2 schools in the entire country that have AA's as their football and hoop coaches in D-1. It really isn't a success story.

Only 2 wow out of how many schools? 250 plus

 

[Zelda Zonk]

In a thread on the basketball recruiting board, (about Donnie Freeman), a poster playfully speculated that, based on previous recruiting success, maybe Red Autry “will go to USC with Dino”. Suddenly, the realization that both our major revenue sports had African American coaches popped into may head. I asked if that was true at any other power 5 school and someone responded that it used to be true at Penn State but they fired their basketball coach and hired a ‘Euro-American’ but Notre Dame has hired an ‘AA’ to replace Mike Brey, so they just joined the group of two, (I haven’t attempted to verify that). At a point where I thought we were the only one, I felt that was both “cool and uncool”. Another poster wondered “Why does it even matter?” I suggested that “if it didn’t matter, we wouldn’t be the only one.”

One of our board firefights broke out.
A poster labeled it “progressive” to have two AA coaches in the most important positions. Another said “whether we like it or not...race and representation IS an issue.”
A responder said “It’s only an issue because many groups in this country continually want to make it an issue…Dino and Red are the coaches of our programs because they earned the coaching job, not because they are black. Why don’t we try not making race (or gender for that matter) an issue for once.”
That produced this volley: “I see it this way. If the AA community finds it important to celebrate then it's asinine to ridicule them for it. Let it be the choice of those it truly matters to. Otherwise just ignore it like we would a million other factoids.”
Another: “You mean it's only an issue because some groups want to complain about the lack of opportunity that is given to a group that I don't belong to. The nerve of those groups. Other AA have earned it and haven't got the jobs they should have got. It's easy to think it isn't important when you belong to the group that has always got the jobs.”
And: “It's not just about many groups " continually wanting to make it an issue", it's mentioned and brought up precisely because it IS an issue. If your point is we should ignore it, or not mention it, or act like it doesn't exist, that's a personal perspective, born of your own personal experience. The opposite of that is whether those in other groups have the same privilege, the same luxury, to offer their perspective, based on their own life experiences. And let's be clear, this is not a right or privilege that was always historically available for those same groups in the past. If it matters to them to bring it up, then it shouldn't be a problem for anyone else.”

At this point is was suggested that a separate thread be set to discuss this as it had nothing directly to do with Donnie Freeman. I decided to post it to both the football and basketball boards as it’s relevant to both.

Do you think we should ignore the fact that we’ve got African Americans in the two most important coaching positions because that’s the way it should be?

Should we ignore that we are one of only two power five schools that have that situation? Why is it so uncommon? Should an issue be made of it?

Should we be bragging about it? (I feel strongly that both men would be uncomfortable with that.) Would that imply that they didn’t get the positions based on merit?

1) I don’t care for being called an ”AA.” The words or the initials. I/we have no practical connection to Africa. It’s a continent, not a nationality. How often is a Jersey guido referred to as a European-American? Makes us sound less like Americans and more like ‘halvsies’ who could/should just go ‘home.’

2) No, I don’t think it’s remarkable that we have two major sport black head coaches. If we were the onlies, at this point, that would seem odd and incidental, but not quite remarkable.

3) The ‘major sport’ characterization is a bit arbitrary. As is “Power 5,” and I don’t even know which conferences that includes/excludes.

4) If there’s a story about which black assistants deserve HC roles but we’re denied for spurious reasons, that’s a story worth being told.

5) There’s no AA “community.”

 

[bnoro]

Race Religion Politics Sports.
Which of the above doesn’t belong?

Athletes should use their platforms more often to call out injustices when it comes to race and politics.

Religion doesn't belong in your list as it shouldn't have any correlation with the other 3. We are a country founded on religious freedom and things shouldn't benefit one religion over another.

 

[Cuse181]

1) I don’t care for being called an ”AA.” The words or the initials. I/we have no practical connection to Africa. It’s a continent, not a nationality. How often is a Jersey guido referred to as a European-American? Makes us sound less like Americans and more like ‘halvsies’ who could/should just go ‘home.’

2) No, I don’t think it’s remarkable that we have two major sport black head coaches. If we were the onlies, at this point, that would seem odd and incidental, but not quite remarkable.

3) The ‘major sport’ characterization is a bit arbitrary. As is “Power 5,” and I don’t even know which conferences that includes/excludes.

4) If there’s a story about which black assistants deserve HC roles but we’re denied for spurious reasons, that’s a story worth being told.

5) There’s no AA “community.”

You’re right, black is the correct term now. That being said, claiming there is no black (or African American) community is false. You may not be apart of one, just like I am not a part of an Italian American community. They certainly exist, many identify as being part of it and reducing it to “there is no X” is a troublesome generalization. Perhaps the community does not include every single black person, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t in existence and it doesn’t mean that a generation of young black perspective athletes aren’t excited to see some people who look like them at the top of the sport after decades of unwritten and unofficial rules keeping fit potential coaches from the sports highest position. I’m not going to say your position is invalid, but it’s not factually correct in all circumstances.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

You’re right, black is the correct term now. That being said, claiming there is no black (or African American) community is false. You may not be apart of one, just like I am not a part of an Italian American community. They certainly exist, many identify as being part of it and reducing it to “there is no X” is a troublesome generalization. Perhaps the community does not include every single black person, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t in existence and it doesn’t mean that a generation of young black perspective athletes aren’t excited to see some people who look like them at the top of the sport after decades of unwritten and unofficial rules keeping fit potential coaches from the sports highest position. I’m not going to say your position is invalid, but it’s not factually correct in all circumstances.

I’m saying there is no singular “black community,” not that there aren’t many.

If there’s One, the way the media/individuals commonly refer to it, that would imply we all think the same way and share the same experiences. Which is quite untrue. There’s no convention, no newsletter, no Facebook group, or email chain. The Black Community is as diverse as The White Community would be, if anyone actually referred to one. Meaning the Alaska salmon fisher boat captain, the Ozark meth dealer, Eric Trump, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, and the aforementioned Jersey guido would all be a part of it. If that’s a ‘community,‘ then sure. But that kind of demographic is entirely meaningless.

 

[Stevenson]

Don’t care as long as we win. That’s the only metric to judge success.