slight specific letdown about Babers era

[OttoinGrotto]

Very possible and he might be right, I don't know anything at this point. Since day 1, certain games he (coaching staff) seem bent on sticking to the script when it's not working. Very frustrating to watch. I get that attitude long-term, "this is what we practice, it will eventually benefit us this season". But when you're in the middle of getting knocked around in a particular game, you've gotta mix it up even if it's not what you do. Throwing in the middle of the field isn't some profound change that will negatively impact what you do the following weeks. Try to do something different to get back in the game. At no point where we winning that game with what we were doing.

Maybe when you're getting knocked around is actually the ideal time to stick with it?

I don't know, just a thought that popped into my head. Just keep grinding with the expectation you're learning and getting better at it.

 

[TheCusian]

That's my concern about Tommy - that his talent may put too much pressure on the OL.

This is a bit much. Eric got sacked at just about the same rate as Tommy so far. It was a big advantage that he could turn nothing into something, yes. But how many reads did he miss? How many wide open WR's did he miss?

A meh game from TD passing vs Maryland would be in the top 5 of games from Eric passing. Just wait until it slows down a bit more and he gets more in sync with his WRs.

All his running is balanced out by the fact his injuries torpedoed three seasons half way through, too. The guy will be remembered here for a long time as a fierce leader, great runner, and mythological warrior. But his running wasn't without it's tradeoffs.

 

[OrangePA]

This is a bit much. Eric got sacked at just about the same rate as Tommy so far. It was a big advantage that he could turn nothing into something, yes. But how many reads did he miss? How many wide open WR's did he miss?

A meh game from TD passing vs Maryland would be in the top 5 of games from Eric passing. Just wait until it slows down a bit more and he gets more in sync with his WRs.

All his running is balanced out by the fact his injuries torpedoed three seasons half way through, too. The guy will be remembered here for a long time as a fierce leader, great runner, and mythological warrior. But his running wasn't without it's tradeoffs.

I think this post misses the point.

Dungey's dual threat asked questions of defenses that Tommy's attributes do not ask.

Regarding the notion that Tommy's passing game at MD is within Eric's top five passing games?

Probably not.

 

[P Vasiloff]

Did Adams not play the 2nd and 3rd quarter? He seemed to be not on the field a lot. I agree that Moe is serviceable but I think we need more Adams.

I like Moe Neal but he rarely breaks a tackle and does not accelerate past anybody. Adams runs sneaky fast and rarely gets knocked backwards.

 

[Millhouse]

Even when we were winning consistently under Mac and P we had trouble recruiting top notch OL.

We ran the option precisely for that reason - we needed to put pressure on the opposing defenses by forcing them to account for a running QB.

Dungey afforded us the same ability the past few years - his dual threat was not a trap but a huge benefit.

That's my concern about Tommy - that his talent may put too much pressure on the OL.

Good dual threat QBs are harder to find than competent OL. Babers passes the ball. No more guys that go 18 for 47 their senior year of high school.

 

[TheCusian]

I think this post misses the point.

Dungey's dual threat asked questions of defenses that Tommy's attributes do not ask.

Regarding the notion that Tommy's passing game at MD is within Eric's top five passing games?

Probably not.

And Tommy's attributes ask different questions of the defense that Eric couldn't. But they both get sacked a fair amount. One escapes and gets a bunch of yards. One gets rid of the ball quickly and makes throws the other couldn't see or throw reliably.

There’s more than one way to mitigate bad line play.

And you’re right TD vs Maryland didn’t crack the top 5 if you go by rating vs P5 teams. It would have been good for #7.

1. Wake Forest 2015: 8/14, 57.1% comp, 221 yards, 15.8 per, 2TD 0 INT, 236.88 rating
2. @BC 2016: 32/38, 84.2% comp, 434 yards, 11.4 per, 3TD 1INT, 200.94 rating
3. NC State 2018: 30/42, 71.4% comp, 480 yds, 11.4 per, 3TD 0 INT, 191 rating
4. @BC 2018: 21/35, 60% comp, 362 yards, 10.3 per, 3TD 1INT, 169.45 rating
5. #2 Clemson 2017: 20/33, 60.7% comp, 278 yards, 8.4 per, 3TD 0 INT, 161.7 rating

TD 2nd Start
@Maryland 2019: 28/41, 68.3% comp, 330 yards, 8.0 per, 3TD 1INT, 155.17 rating

 

[rrlbees]

And Tommy's attributes ask different questions of the defense that Eric couldn't. But they both get sacked a fair amount. One escapes and gets a bunch of yards. One gets rid of the ball quickly and makes throws the other couldn't see or throw reliably.

There’s more than one way to mitigate bad line play.

And you’re right TD vs Maryland didn’t crack the top 5 if you go by rating vs P5 teams. It would have been good for #7.

1. Wake Forest 2015: 8/14, 57.1% comp, 221 yards, 15.8 per, 2TD 0 INT, 236.88 rating
2. @BC 2016: 32/38, 84.2% comp, 434 yards, 11.4 per, 3TD 1INT, 200.94 rating
3. NC State 2018: 30/42, 71.4% comp, 480 yds, 11.4 per, 3TD 0 INT, 191 rating
4. @BC 2018: 21/35, 60% comp, 362 yards, 10.3 per, 3TD 1INT, 169.45 rating
5. #2 Clemson 2017: 20/33, 60.7% comp, 278 yards, 8.4 per, 3TD 0 INT, 161.7 rating

TD 2nd Start
@Maryland 2019: 28/41, 68.3% comp, 330 yards, 8.0 per, 3TD 1INT, 155.17 rating

I’ve been defending tommy but your post makes no sense. The defense had to account for Eric’s legs. They don’t for tommy. What different question does tommy attributes ask?

 

[qdawgg]

Maybe when you're getting knocked around is actually the ideal time to stick with it?

I don't know, just a thought that popped into my head. Just keep grinding with the expectation you're learning and getting better at it.

Doing the same thing over and over that isn't working and seems to have no chance to work in that game, seems weird to me.

Grinding away getting popped in the head makes for a great Rocky series but isn't ideal as a long term football strategy.

 

[qdawgg]

This is a bit much. Eric got sacked at just about the same rate as Tommy so far. It was a big advantage that he could turn nothing into something, yes. But how many reads did he miss? How many wide open WR's did he miss?

A meh game from TD passing vs Maryland would be in the top 5 of games from Eric passing. Just wait until it slows down a bit more and he gets more in sync with his WRs.

All his running is balanced out by the fact his injuries torpedoed three seasons half way through, too. The guy will be remembered here for a long time as a fierce leader, great runner, and mythological warrior. But his running wasn't without it's tradeoffs.

Maybe instead of protecting the flavor of the month check the stats before making silly statements. Just in 2016 ED threw for over 300 yards in 6 games and over 400 in 3 games. So this is an absolutely ridiculous statement especially since if someone posted something similar in the past while ED was still here, you would have been all over it.

 

[TheCusian]

I’ve been defending tommy but your post makes no sense. The defense had to account for Eric’s legs. They don’t for tommy. What different question does tommy attributes ask?

More accuracy. Can make all the throws. Goes through progressions faster. More zip on throws means players are in better position. Accuracy also helps with catching guys in stride.

 

[rrlbees]

More accuracy. Can make all the throws. Goes through progressions faster. More zip on throws means players are in better position. Accuracy also helps with catching guys in stride.

Yea those are skills. But that’s still passing the ball.

 

[TheCusian]

Yea those are skills. But that’s still passing the ball.

Right. If the question was “Eric evades the rush and gets positive yardage when pass protections break down, what can Tommy do?” My answer is there are other ways to mitigate a young OL who is struggling with pass protection to beat the rush.

The reason I went deep dive on the passing stats was to show just that. Tommy in a meh game down a ton, had what would be ED’s 7th best passing day vs a P5. And people are wishing Tommy could be dual threat like Eric they’re missing the trade off. It will be more obvious by say week 5.

 

[rrlbees]

Right. If the question was “Eric evades the rush and gets positive yardage when pass protections break down, what can Tommy do?” My answer is there are other ways to mitigate a young OL who is struggling with pass protection to beat the rush.

The reason I went deep dive on the passing stats was to show just that. Tommy in a meh game down a ton, had what would be ED’s 7th best passing day vs a P5. And people are wishing Tommy could be dual threat like Eric they’re missing the trade off. It will be more obvious by say week 5.

Don’t see where any of that has to do with Eric being able to run and thus needed to be accounted for. Tommy they play him to throw but not to run.

 

[KaiserUEO]

People here have obviously forgot how crappy of a ‘QB’ Dungey was.

He was a great runner and we basically ran the wildcat for 4 years.

Last week we kill TD and say he better improve, he improves greatly and now we are killing himrs for what, the D staying in Syracuse?? Or my favorite he goes for 330, 3 and 70 something %, so let’s say he doesn’t have the intangibles then.

Syracuse football fandom, the grass was always FAR greener in the burnt out past.

 

[OrangePA]

And Tommy's attributes ask different questions of the defense that Eric couldn't. But they both get sacked a fair amount. One escapes and gets a bunch of yards. One gets rid of the ball quickly and makes throws the other couldn't see or throw reliably.

There’s more than one way to mitigate bad line play.

And you’re right TD vs Maryland didn’t crack the top 5 if you go by rating vs P5 teams. It would have been good for #7.

1. Wake Forest 2015: 8/14, 57.1% comp, 221 yards, 15.8 per, 2TD 0 INT, 236.88 rating
2. @BC 2016: 32/38, 84.2% comp, 434 yards, 11.4 per, 3TD 1INT, 200.94 rating
3. NC State 2018: 30/42, 71.4% comp, 480 yds, 11.4 per, 3TD 0 INT, 191 rating
4. @BC 2018: 21/35, 60% comp, 362 yards, 10.3 per, 3TD 1INT, 169.45 rating
5. #2 Clemson 2017: 20/33, 60.7% comp, 278 yards, 8.4 per, 3TD 0 INT, 161.7 rating

TD 2nd Start
@Maryland 2019: 28/41, 68.3% comp, 330 yards, 8.0 per, 3TD 1INT, 155.17 rating

We lost the game by 43 points.

I appreciate your half glass full approach but a weak OL and an immobile drop back QB is a tough formula.

Were you at the game?

 

[OrangePA]

Good dual threat QBs are harder to find than competent OL. Babers passes the ball. No more guys that go 18 for 47 their senior year of high school.

Really?

One position is more difficult to fill than five?

That’s a tough argument

 

[Ozcuse]

And Tommy's attributes ask different questions of the defense that Eric couldn't. But they both get sacked a fair amount. One escapes and gets a bunch of yards. One gets rid of the ball quickly and makes throws the other couldn't see or throw reliably.

There’s more than one way to mitigate bad line play.

And you’re right TD vs Maryland didn’t crack the top 5 if you go by rating vs P5 teams. It would have been good for #7.

1. Wake Forest 2015: 8/14, 57.1% comp, 221 yards, 15.8 per, 2TD 0 INT, 236.88 rating
2. @BC 2016: 32/38, 84.2% comp, 434 yards, 11.4 per, 3TD 1INT, 200.94 rating
3. NC State 2018: 30/42, 71.4% comp, 480 yds, 11.4 per, 3TD 0 INT, 191 rating
4. @BC 2018: 21/35, 60% comp, 362 yards, 10.3 per, 3TD 1INT, 169.45 rating
5. #2 Clemson 2017: 20/33, 60.7% comp, 278 yards, 8.4 per, 3TD 0 INT, 161.7 rating

TD 2nd Start
@Maryland 2019: 28/41, 68.3% comp, 330 yards, 8.0 per, 3TD 1INT, 155.17 rating

Continuously bringing up TD’s stats is like Atlanta fans pointing to Matt Ryan’s fantasy points this past weekend in an ass kicking.

The point of the game is to win not put up sick stats in a blowout.

 

[rrlbees]

People here have obviously forgot how crappy of a ‘QB’ Dungey was.

Career Overview: One of the most dynamic dual-threat quarterbacks in the history of the ACC … Played in 39 games with 38 starts from 2015-2018 ... Posted a 20-18 record as a starter … As a passer, was 786-of-1,279 (.615) for 9,340 yards with 58 touchdowns and 30 interceptions ... As a runner, racked up 1,993 yards and 35 touchdowns on 543 carries (3.7 avg.) ... Finished his career as one of five ACC quarterbacks all-time with 11,000+ yards of total offense and 90+ touchdowns responsible for, joining Philip Rivers (NC State), Lamar Jackson (Louisville), Tajh Boyd (Clemson) and Deshaun Watson (Clemson) ... Ranked in the top five in ACC history in career rushing touchdowns by a quarterback (t-3rd), most 400+ yard total offense games (t-4th - 7), total offense yards per game (5th - 290.6), total offense yards (5th - 11,333) and plays (1,822) at the end of the 2018 season ... Set or tied 25 school records during his time with the Orange, including the career records for passing yards, passing yards per game (239.5), 300-yard passing games (12), 400-yard passing games (3), total offense, total offense per game, most plays and most rushing touchdowns by a quarterback ... Additionally, Dungey left campus ranked in the top five all-time at Syracuse in passing attempts (2nd - 1,279), completions (2nd - 786), completion percentage (3rd - .615), touchdown passes (3rd - 58) and pass efficiency rating (4th - 133.07) ... Accounted for three or more touchdowns in 18 of his 38 first-string appearances and produced 93 career total touchdowns ... In addition to his 12 games with 300+ passing yards, Dungey registered three career 400-yard passing performances, the most in school history ... Logged six 100-yard rushing games, second to Bill Hurley (8) all-time among Syracuse signal-callers ... Led the Orange in rushing touchdowns in all four of his seasons ... Finished his time at Syracuse 23rd on the program's career rushing list and was one of three active 1,000-yard rushers for the Orange in 2018 ... Received ACC Player of the Week honors a school-record eight times ... Two-year captain ... Two-time CoSIDA Academic All-District selection ... Named to the 2016 All-ACC Academic Football Team … Past member of the Syracuse Student-Athlete Advisory Committee (SAAC) ... Four-time SU Athletic Director’s Honor Roll selection ... Three-time member of the ACC Honor Roll ... Represented the Orange twice at ACC Football Kickoff, the league's annual preseason media event ... Four letters. to Bill Hurley (8) all-time among Syracuse signal-callers ... Led the Orange in rushing touchdowns in all four of his seasons ... Finished his time at Syracuse 23rd on the program's career rushing list and was one of three active 1,000-yard rushers for the Orange in 2018 ... Received ACC Player of the Week honors a school-record eight times ... Two-year captain ... Two-time CoSIDA Academic All-District selection ... Named to the 2016 All-ACC Academic Football Team … Past member of the Syracuse Student-Athlete Advisory Committee (SAAC) ... Four-time SU Athletic Director’s Honor Roll selection ... Three-time member of the ACC Honor Roll ... Represented the Orange twice at ACC Football Kickoff, the league's annual preseason media event ... Four letters.

 

[sufandu]

I don't care too much about TD's passing ability versus ED's running. Those are things I expected. The biggest unexpected thing I see now is the difference between an instinctual player and a cerebral one. That's not to say ED wasn't smart. He was. I think ED relied heavily on his instincts, which is why the running tendencies Babers tried to temper never changed. That may be why ED was a play maker right from the start but may have also limted his ceiling. I think what we see in TD is less in the way of instincts and more thinking. Maybe that leads to a bit more indecisiveness as he gets up to speed but hopefully means a higher ceiling with time, given his passing talent.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Career Overview: One of the most dynamic dual-threat quarterbacks in the history of the ACC … Played in 39 games with 38 starts from 2015-2018 ... Posted a 20-18 record as a starter … As a passer, was 786-of-1,279 (.615) for 9,340 yards with 58 touchdowns and 30 interceptions ... As a runner, racked up 1,993 yards and 35 touchdowns on 543 carries (3.7 avg.) ... Finished his career as one of five ACC quarterbacks all-time with 11,000+ yards of total offense and 90+ touchdowns responsible for, joining Philip Rivers (NC State), Lamar Jackson (Louisville), Tajh Boyd (Clemson) and Deshaun Watson (Clemson) ... Ranked in the top five in ACC history in career rushing touchdowns by a quarterback (t-3rd), most 400+ yard total offense games (t-4th - 7), total offense yards per game (5th - 290.6), total offense yards (5th - 11,333) and plays (1,822) at the end of the 2018 season ... Career Overview: One of the most dynamic dual-threat quarterbacks in the history of the ACC … Played in 39 games with 38 starts from 2015-2018 ... Posted a 20-18 record as a starter … As a passer, was 786-of-1,279 (.615) for 9,340 yards with 58 touchdowns and 30 interceptions ... As a runner, racked up 1,993 yards and 35 touchdowns on 543 carries (3.7 avg.) ... Finished his career as one of five ACC quarterbacks all-time with 11,000+ yards of total offense and 90+ touchdowns responsible for, joining Philip Rivers (NC State), Lamar Jackson (Louisville), Tajh Boyd (Clemson) and Deshaun Watson (Clemson) ... Ranked in the top five in ACC history in career rushing touchdowns by a quarterback (t-3rd), most 400+ yard total offense games (t-4th - 7), total offense yards per game (5th - 290.6), total offense yards (5th - 11,333) and plays (1,822) at the end of the 2018 season ... Set or tied 25 school records during his time with the Orange, including the career records for passing yards, passing yards per game (239.5), 300-yard passing games (12), 400-yard passing games (3), total offense, total offense per game, most plays and most rushing touchdowns by a quarterback ... Additionally, Dungey left campus ranked in the top five all-time at Syracuse in passing attempts (2nd - 1,279), completions (2nd - 786), completion percentage (3rd - .615), touchdown passes (3rd - 58) and pass efficiency rating (4th - 133.07) ... Accounted for three or more touchdowns in 18 of his 38 first-string appearances and produced 93 career total touchdowns ... In addition to his 12 games with 300+ passing yards, Dungey registered three career 400-yard passing performances, the most in school history ... Logged six 100-yard rushing games, second to Bill Hurley (8) all-time among Syracuse signal-callers ... Led the Orange in rushing touchdowns in all four of his seasons ... Finished his time at Syracuse 23rd on the program's career rushing list and was one of three active 1,000-yard rushers for the Orange in 2018 ... Received ACC Player of the Week honors a school-record eight times ... Two-year captain ... Two-time CoSIDA Academic All-District selection ... Named to the 2016 All-ACC Academic Football Team … Past member of the Syracuse Student-Athlete Advisory Committee (SAAC) ... Four-time SU Athletic Director’s Honor Roll selection ... Three-time member of the ACC Honor Roll ... Represented the Orange twice at ACC Football Kickoff, the league's annual preseason media event ... Four letters. to Bill Hurley (8) all-time among Syracuse signal-callers ... Led the Orange in rushing touchdowns in all four of his seasons ... Finished his time at Syracuse 23rd on the program's career rushing list and was one of three active 1,000-yard rushers for the Orange in 2018 ... Received ACC Player of the Week honors a school-record eight times ... Two-year captain ... Two-time CoSIDA Academic All-District selection ... Named to the 2016 All-ACC Academic Football Team … Past member of the Syracuse Student-Athlete Advisory Committee (SAAC) ... Four-time SU Athletic Director’s Honor Roll selection ... Three-time member of the ACC Honor Roll ... Represented the Orange twice at ACC Football Kickoff, the league's annual preseason media event ... Four letters.

He was a great Syracuse QB, i was a huge fan.

Overall, not so much.

Clearly we need to compare a 4 year career to 2 games here.

That’s whats important.

I’m sure 2 of his best games were his 1st 2.

Or 5 if you count last years time for TD.

 

[Millhouse]

Really?

One position is more difficult to fill than five?

That’s a tough argument

it's not a tough argument when you're trying to find a QB who can make the passing game and the running game good

 

[Millhouse]

People here have obviously forgot how crappy of a ‘QB’ Dungey was.

He was a great runner and we basically ran the wildcat for 4 years.

Last week we kill TD and say he better improve, he improves greatly and now we are killing himrs for what, the D staying in Syracuse?? Or my favorite he goes for 330, 3 and 70 something %, so let’s say he doesn’t have the intangibles then.

Syracuse football fandom, the grass was always FAR greener in the burnt out past.

we all know that there a lot of SU fans accept this approach when the team is fantastic but deep down, all this shotgun passing stuff offends them

 

[Millhouse]

He was a great Syracuse QB, i was a huge fan.

Overall, not so much.

Clearly we need to compare a 4 year career to 2 games here.

That’s whats important.

I’m sure 2 of his best games were his 1st 2.

Or 5 if you count last years time for TD.

don't you like how he bolded the syracuse only stuff. next year devito is going to break every single season passing record here and the glory days guys will shrug

 

[Millhouse]

Continuously bringing up TD’s stats is like Atlanta fans pointing to Matt Ryan’s fantasy points this past weekend in an ass kicking.

The point of the game is to win not put up sick stats in a blowout.

here's a good example of the "it's the fancy passing offense that's to blame" when the defense gives up 350 yards rushing

 

[Millhouse]

5.71 yards per play against maryland

yards per play last year 5.68

meatheads like a lower yards per play when a QB crashes around.