So here’s where I’m at..

[kingtidge]

That press conference was frustrating to watch. Hopefully, it was just to avoid throwing his player under the bus. He gave some coach-speak about how Carlos is there to pass and if the other players made their shots he would look better. I didn't see that at all the last two nights. He just looked scared. Eddie was the point guard directing traffic.

Maybe Red will watch some film and someone will get in his ear about what is really happening out there.

It's gonna continue to be painful to watch unless/until everything clicks for Carlos and he really shows he's a P4 caliber starting PG (as it would appear he's NOT at this point.)

Red and staff were banking on him being a P4 caliber PG it would seem and Red's not ready to admit otherwise (or is simply deflecting with nonsense to protect him.)

 

[jncuse]

We are staring at a guaranteed two quad one games left in UNC and Duke in league. Chances are we aren’t beating either.

Pitt and Clemson may be doable, but no guarantee they are quad 1 games. The schedule is not good enough to dig us out of this hole. We basically need to win every OOC game and go 15-5 in the league. This will be the 4th year in a row the season is more or less over by Thanksgiving.

I'm not sure if its as high as 15. But the bidding starts at 13 at the lowest and we have to go clean outside of Tennessee... and 13 may very well not be enough. But no point debating in any detail whether its 13, 14 or 15, until the team actually proves it capable of doing that. We can agree the ACC is ass so far, and any ACC team will need a really good record in the ACC to overcome that.

 

[Sherman20]

I think we’re looking at another year without a bid. Disappointing. Very.

On Red: He did a good job getting 20 wins last year. That team was a nightmare. I felt good about him going into this year. However I have some concerns now. The PG evaluation has been catastrophic. The hype around Carlos was tremendous. He’s a 10-15 minute player. He was billed as a “tough kid” warrior type. He looks confused and petrified.

The move should have been made before Brooklyn IMHO. These games were too important. Some player rotations have been head scratchers. Hs going to get a third year, but if that team doesn’t make the dance, my guess is we start a new search.

PG position. You have to roll with JJ at this point. Spell him with Carlos. Choppa would be my 3rd guard and I like Taylor for spurts because he’s soo good defensively.

SF: I’d still start Bell, but he’s in a short leash. He just doesn’t get engaged if he’s not shooting well. So if he’s not, he’s gotta come out.

I’d roll with Davis Freeman Eddie. I don’t get the love for Petar. He’s smart, but he’s slow and flat footed. He’s a nice piece down the road, but him playing over Davis last night really bothered me. He’s like Jimmy Jr out there.

I’d like to see Naheem every night to give Eddie a blow and play a bit of Zone. The press looks like ass- don’t bother.

I’d yank Freeman after every bad shot he takes early in the clock. He must be made to work inside out. Some JB style tough love would do this kid wonders.

this has been terribly disappointing so far.

I thought we were gonna get beat pretty easily both games, so the fact that we had a legit shot of at least going 1-1 or even 2-0 was hopeful to me. Progress is being made. That said, not making the tourney for a third straight year would be horrible.

 

[Cuse1055]

I thought we were gonna get beat pretty easily both games, so the fact that we had a legit shot at winning both or at least going 1-1 was hopeful to me. Progress is being made. That said, not making the tourney for a third straight year would be horrible.

Sadly this would be the fourth straight year not making it.

 

[5OutFred]

I actually don't think the talent gap between us and the rest of the ACC (save Duke and UNC) is as big as some think. I'm far more concerned with the talent on the team being put in the best position possible to succeed. That starts and ends with Red.

Rotations, in-game coaching and adjustments, that wins you close games, and gives this team at least one win out of Brooklyn. Red's in game coaching has been questionable at best, and we're nearing a sample size into Year 2 where that may be reality for his tenure.

 

[DoctahLexus]

I think we can make the tourney.

 

[Col. Bleep]

It wasn't that long ago that going into tipoff Orange fans expected to win every game.
Now some folks are just happy to play the other team "close."
It's a sad comment on how far the program has fallen.

It seems this team has to go inside and/or play inside-out.
So how about a lineup with 3 bruisers playing upfront: Lampkin, Davis and Freeman?
Move Bell to the 2 and JJ to point.

Problematic?
Sure.
But so is everything else.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

I think we can make the tourney.

NCAA? NIT? CBI? ACC? Big East? Carrier Classic?

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Where I am at is that I am finally able to associate name and/or nickname with face and jersey number.

Progress.

 

[Hopkins16]

My disappointment with Coach Red is that I think he did a phenomenal job last year with a very dysfunctional team that he inherited, and the current team, one that he assembled, will not do as well or better. It seems to me that his coaching has taken a step backwards.

 

[kuethstheman]

My disappointment with Coach Red is that I think he did a phenomenal job last year with a very dysfunctional team that he inherited, and the current team, one that he assembled, will not do as well or better. It seems to me that his coaching has taken a step backwards.

I think part of it is that this team requires a different coaching skill set. Last year's team was childish but most of them had pretty good basketball IQ. This team may be more coachable but much lower IQ. So far, Red's having trouble fixing that.

 

[Ottoman]

I understand the pessimism. The talent evaluation, substitutions, and defense have been questionable thus far. But I think some folks are discounting these factors:

1) The improvement between game 3 and games 4/5 was enormous. Keep that up, and we will be very strong by mid-season.

2) Outside of Duke, the ACC is WIDE OPEN this year. I've watched North Carolina play and they are more beatable than ever. Virginia, Miami, and Virginia Tech all look likely to have bad years. Pitt, Wake, and Notre Dame might be better than usual, but they are certainly at our level.

3) We are missing a second guard and have been playing teams 4 on 5 thus far. No choice, we gotta move JJ to the point. I think Moore has been the best 2 thus far. Meanwhile, Bell is inconsistent and not physical enough to rebound. It's time to start thinking of him as a 2/3 and have him split minutes with Moore at the 2. We can move him over to the 3 when Davis or Freeman is winded. His minutes stay the same.

4) It's just the beginning for Freeman. He will get better every game. Despite struggling a bit, he is still piling up stats.

5) Please god, Chance Westry.

 

[PeteCalvin]

Just a couple things that stuck in my craw last night:

1. Why no zone? It was clear that Williams was going to back our guys down and score at will. We needed to mix it up a bit. I agree with whoever said we should have seen the Highlander at least once.

2. Red stuck with his “back up” line up way too long in the critical point of the game. He should know better that to do that in a must win game. By the time he brought Lamp, JJ, and Donnie (?) back in, we were down double digits and cooked. JB doesn’t do that. Ever!

3. Where was the help defense on those isolation plays? They burned us over and over, and yet we did nothing.

4. Lampkin had two solid baseline drives to the hoop for what should have been layups, and he allowed himself to get stripped both times. That can’t happen when you’re that big and strong. Don’t bring the ball down! Same thing happened to Petar.

5. That stretch where we gave up the two three pointers in a row to McMillan was the turning point. Horrible defense. We never quite got back in it after that.

6. Too many freshman mistakes by Donnie and Choppa at critical junctures. Donnie had some stupid fouls. Begs the question why we don’t have Davis playing in a game that seemed tailor made for him. Big body against big bodies. Williams isn’t bullying him.

Red’s got a lot to figure out. Only real positive is that we didn’t get blown out and the overall defense did seem to improve. Definitely some things we can build on for the season, but we needed to win one of these games to help avoid the bubble.

 

[baggerbob]

I understand the pessimism. The talent evaluation, substitutions, and defense have been questionable thus far. But I think some folks are discounting these factors:

1) The improvement between game 3 and games 4/5 was enormous. Keep that up, and we will be very strong by mid-season.

2) Outside of Duke, the ACC is WIDE OPEN this year. I've watched North Carolina play and they are more beatable than ever. Virginia, Miami, and Virginia Tech all look likely to have bad years. Pitt, Wake, and Notre Dame might be better than usual, but they are certainly at our level.

3) We are missing a second guard and have been playing teams 4 on 5 thus far. No choice, we gotta move JJ to the point. I think Moore has been the best 2 thus far. Meanwhile, Bell is inconsistent and not physical enough to rebound. It's time to start thinking of him as a 2/3 and have him split minutes with Moore at the 2. We can move him over to the 3 when Davis or Freeman is winded. His minutes stay the same.

4) It's just the beginning for Freeman. He will get better every game. Despite struggling a bit, he is still piling up stats.

5) Please god, Chance Westry.

Actually like the idea of Bell for a few minutes as the 2nd guard.

 

[kirbivore]

Autry doubling down on Carlos during the post game press conference makes it seems like there is no plan to replace him in the lineup. Very concerning.

Autry did learn from the best in terms of stubbornness.

 

[kirbivore]

The program itself is just stale and it shows all over the place (and has for a while). We seem to be behind in style of play, hype, NIL, player development, talent evaluations, team building and the list can keep going. When JB left we needed to clean house an bring in fresh eye and ideas we failed to do that so now we are stuck for three years.

I thought the analytic wonderkid was supposed to change that. Day late and a dollar short, the SU AD model.

 

[MG44]

I think we’re looking at another year without a bid. Disappointing. Very.

On Red: He did a good job getting 20 wins last year. That team was a nightmare. I felt good about him going into this year. However I have some concerns now. The PG evaluation has been catastrophic. The hype around Carlos was tremendous. He’s a 10-15 minute player. He was billed as a “tough kid” warrior type. He looks confused and petrified.

The move should have been made before Brooklyn IMHO. These games were too important. Some player rotations have been head scratchers. Hs going to get a third year, but if that team doesn’t make the dance, my guess is we start a new search.

PG position. You have to roll with JJ at this point. Spell him with Carlos. Choppa would be my 3rd guard and I like Taylor for spurts because he’s soo good defensively.

SF: I’d still start Bell, but he’s in a short leash. He just doesn’t get engaged if he’s not shooting well. So if he’s not, he’s gotta come out.

I’d roll with Davis Freeman Eddie. I don’t get the love for Petar. He’s smart, but he’s slow

100%

 

[Niastri]

Great post Jake .

It seems like Autry is trying to give his starters every possible opportunity to play themselves into being good. But it just ain’t working.

I’m still amazed that we have 6 guards and only 1 playing well.

Meanwhile Bell is one dimensional and sucking at that one dimension.

Lampkin is giving his all but is clearly playing hurt.

Freeman is another in a long line of big time recruits who isn’t ready to step right in and contribute in all facets of the game. This really concerns me. What are we doing to prepare these guys?

Ultimately it’s really really hard to see this team being remotely close to tourney worthy. We’ll win some games when we get hot, and we’ll keep some games close against good opponents. But we have so damn many holes, and so many players that are net neutral players at best.

Regarding Bell, he scored 22 points on 11 made free throws and 3/8 three point shooting. He only took 9 shots.

I think that isn't one dimensional, unless scoring is the dimension.

His offense didn't hurt us yesterday, although he did have a couple tentative feeds into the post that would up being turnovers.

If they are going to double team the feed to Lampkin in the high post, I'd rather Bell just fire up a three in that position.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Jake, I value your knowledge more than anyone on here, but I see a role for Petar. He seems like a high IQ, always in the right spot kind of kid. Six boards in 11 minutes yesterday. It's a shame that he, Jyare and Donnie all play the same position. Someone is going to get squeezed for minutes.

I don't think anyone really expected us to win the two games in Brooklyn, but the first game gave us hope. Especially a game we fought back and could have won if we shot better than 50% from the FT line.

Last night we hung in there. Didn't get blown out. Eddie didn't have his A game and we still were close. I would play Naheem also. I thought he was serviceable Thursday, but what's your thought on Freeman playing spot minutes in the middle compared to Naheem. Seems like Naheem would bring more defensively but Donnie has been doing a good job on the boards.

Tennessee is going to be a tough matchup. A top ten team on the road. Again, we will be underdogs, but if we can keep it within ten, I will feel bullish against a lot of ACC teams.

Notre Dame on the road doesn’t scare me.

I agree. Petar is better defensively than either Freeman or Davis. He actually moves his feet and helps on defense.

 

[chuck]

I think we’re looking at another year without a bid. Disappointing. Very.

On Red: He did a good job getting 20 wins last year. That team was a nightmare. I felt good about him going into this year. However I have some concerns now. The PG evaluation has been catastrophic. The hype around Carlos was tremendous. He’s a 10-15 minute player. He was billed as a “tough kid” warrior type. He looks confused and petrified.

The move should have been made before Brooklyn IMHO. These games were too important. Some player rotations have been head scratchers. Hs going to get a third year, but if that team doesn’t make the dance, my guess is we start a new search.

PG position. You have to roll with JJ at this point. Spell him with Carlos. Choppa would be my 3rd guard and I like Taylor for spurts because he’s soo good defensively.

SF: I’d still start Bell, but he’s in a short leash. He just doesn’t get engaged if he’s not shooting well. So if he’s not, he’s gotta come out.

I’d roll with Davis Freeman Eddie. I don’t get the love for Petar. He’s smart, but he’s slow and flat footed. He’s a nice piece down the road, but him playing over Davis last night really bothered me. He’s like Jimmy Jr out there.

I’d like to see Naheem every night to give Eddie a blow and play a bit of Zone. The press looks like ass- don’t bother.

I’d yank Freeman after every bad shot he takes early in the clock. He must be made to work inside out. Some JB style tough love would do this kid wonders.

this has been terribly disappointing so far.

I would think a head coach who was a former pg along with your top assistant who also was a former pg would be able to evaluate pg talent even if/when they miss out on the 5star McDonald's All American point guard they recruited for years. I think there in over there head having never accomplished anything coaching in there careers yet. I hope I'm proved wrong as hell tho...

 

[STEVEHOLT]

The season is already over. All the people who think we will win more than 15 games are crazy. I’m not sure we win 10

Unmmm., no.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I sure as hell hope we don't dig this hole again, but it kinda felt like we needed one of these games in NYC and we let game one slip through our fingers... TT - we simply couldn't stop them on O when we needed to and they kept us at arms length.

What can we do now to eek out some more wins that's fixable shorterm??

Better free throw percentage would certainly help... Are we working on that heavily?? JJ got a bunch to drop yesterday but his hitch and form is worse than ever.

JAB pretty much rolled with it. If we had decent shooters that could hit FT's at a good clip, great... If we had group stone masons tossing bricks, that's what we got.

I don't know if Red is cut from that same cloth, but we're already seeing winnable games as L's due to missed free throws. This team isn't good enough to also be bad at that and expect to win a bunch of games.

We had that Texas game until we started “fouling” their frosh hero

 

[kcsu]

I think we’re looking at another year without a bid. Disappointing. Very.

On Red: He did a good job getting 20 wins last year. That team was a nightmare. I felt good about him going into this year. However I have some concerns now. The PG evaluation has been catastrophic. The hype around Carlos was tremendous. He’s a 10-15 minute player. He was billed as a “tough kid” warrior type. He looks confused and petrified.

The move should have been made before Brooklyn IMHO. These games were too important. Some player rotations have been head scratchers. Hs going to get a third year, but if that team doesn’t make the dance, my guess is we start a new search.

PG position. You have to roll with JJ at this point. Spell him with Carlos. Choppa would be my 3rd guard and I like Taylor for spurts because he’s soo good defensively.

SF: I’d still start Bell, but he’s in a short leash. He just doesn’t get engaged if he’s not shooting well. So if he’s not, he’s gotta come out.

I’d roll with Davis Freeman Eddie. I don’t get the love for Petar. He’s smart, but he’s slow and flat footed. He’s a nice piece down the road, but him playing over Davis last night really bothered me. He’s like Jimmy Jr out there.

I’d like to see Naheem every night to give Eddie a blow and play a bit of Zone. The press looks like ass- don’t bother.

I’d yank Freeman after every bad shot he takes early in the clock. He must be made to work inside out. Some JB style tough love would do this kid wonders.

this has been terribly disappointing so far.

Spot on. Carlos is a decent bench piece nothing more.
We need to play a mix of Zone and man
Gets 7'4 in the game
Davis has to be on the floor.
I'd roll with
Man D starting 5
JJ
Bell at 2 ( yep)
Davis
Donnie
Lampkin.
If Bell is off. Choppa or Taylor depending on what we need. O or D

Zone D 5
7'4
Donnie
Davis
Bell
JJ

 

[two3zone]

I think we’re looking at another year without a bid. Disappointing. Very.

On Red: He did a good job getting 20 wins last year. That team was a nightmare. I felt good about him going into this year. However I have some concerns now. The PG evaluation has been catastrophic. The hype around Carlos was tremendous. He’s a 10-15 minute player. He was billed as a “tough kid” warrior type. He looks confused and petrified.

The move should have been made before Brooklyn IMHO. These games were too important. Some player rotations have been head scratchers. Hs going to get a third year, but if that team doesn’t make the dance, my guess is we start a new search.

PG position. You have to roll with JJ at this point. Spell him with Carlos. Choppa would be my 3rd guard and I like Taylor for spurts because he’s soo good defensively.

SF: I’d still start Bell, but he’s in a short leash. He just doesn’t get engaged if he’s not shooting well. So if he’s not, he’s gotta come out.

I’d roll with Davis Freeman Eddie. I don’t get the love for Petar. He’s smart, but he’s slow and flat footed. He’s a nice piece down the road, but him playing over Davis last night really bothered me. He’s like Jimmy Jr out there.

I’d like to see Naheem every night to give Eddie a blow and play a bit of Zone. The press looks like ass- don’t bother.

I’d yank Freeman after every bad shot he takes early in the clock. He must be made to work inside out. Some JB style tough love would do this kid wonders.

this has been terribly disappointing so far.

I sadly agree...

 

[two3zone]

Obviously this is a precarious situation but Westry could unlock this team, both by adding a menace defender to the guard line and by replacing some of Carlos' minutes as a playmaker.

The concerns about Chance's game (note, not talking about health, just skillz) and him not being a shooter, etc. fade away when the comparison point is Carlos who poses zero offensive threat.

The last he had success on the court he was playing in high school 2 and a half years ago.

It's a pipe dream he means anything to this team this year.