So let's just say the staff did promise Allen that he'd start

[OttoinGrotto]

Has enough time passed and has there been enough disparity in play to move on from that promise?

I think yes.

 

[Alsacs]

If this staff feels like they owe Allen anything after 3 games then the fanbase may revolt even more. Shafer starting Allen against Penn State probably costed us that game with how bad our offense was. Allen has been given 2 games and the first 3 series today to show he was the QB. Hunt is the QB and if Allen starts against Tulane then Shafer is dumber than I though.

 

[RF2044]

I just can't believe that they promised him a start.

But as for the rest of your question, the competition is OVER. Allen needed to come out today and make stuff happen in order to hold off Hunt. Instead, he went 3-6 for -1 yards, orchestrating three three-and-outs.

Hunt led 7 consecutive scoring drives. I've seen enough, and I'm certain that the coaches have as well.

And yes--I get that Wagner was an inferior opponent, but Hunt did exactly what you're supposed to do against those kind of teams. He looked poised, he spread the ball around, he went vertical and yet showed touch, and the offense looked lively. Allen just didn't get the job done. Or couldn't--either way, Hunt is the better option moving forward.

I don't know about anybody else, but I'm pretty pumped up for next week. Our lackluster, plodding, methodical offense that looked like it was going to be a decided liability all season long just got an infusion of playmaking at QB. 1-2, but I can't wait to see what Hunt can do for the rest of the year.

Let's Go Orange!!!

 

[Stern]

I just can't believe that they promised him a start.

IF they didn't promise him the starters job then this coaching staff is really really bad! As they can't evaluate talent at all.

I hope the promised him the starters job...at least that is a logical explanation as to why he got the job to begin with! And doesn't mean we have idiots as coaches!

 

[Bayside44]

Guys are promised things all the time, nature of the game.

The kids looked good on paper, and probably in practice. However, this being Syracuse (Nassib aside) the mobile duel threat guy tends to be the guy that works here.

 

[RICuse44]

I don't think it was a flat out come here and you will start. I do think they looked at spring tape of Hunt and previous Oklahoma tape of Allen. I do think they looked at high school tape and also their measurables. They then had controlled preseason camp with a limited amount of live contact with a first team defense. I think they took all of this and said to themselves its close. Numbers say Allen. And by they remember Shafer said he was going to let his coaches coach. I think the main input came from Lester and McDonald. So, they probably took into account we evaluated Allen, we brought him here, camp competition was close (once again not really live and for the most part Allen was probably better at dealing with things when everything was controlled for which never happens in real life), and Allen has the measurables of a NFL QB. I think after NW Shafer let his opinion be known. I think Shafer probably told McDonald and Lester that Hunt was going in after the 3rd series today and he had seen enough. I have no grounds to think these things other than the pressers I have seen and the fact that people who are brought into a new situation always feel they need to reinvent the wheel and outsmart themselves.

 

[FAL]

Don't always agree with O in G and Alsacs but they are so on the money tonight! Hunt was poised and s-m-o-o-t-h. He's our leader going forward.

 

[bevosu]

This offense with Allen gives me nightmarish flashbacks of the 4 years we'd all like to forget.

That's more than enough to make me want Hunt at QB.

 

[supp]

IF they didn't promise him the starters job then this coaching staff is really really bad! As they can't evaluate talent at all.

I hope the promised him the starters job...at least that is a logical explanation as to why he got the job to begin with! And doesn't mean we have idiots as coaches!

That's silly. No one would accuse Bob Stoops of being a bad judge of talent. He recruited him first! The guy obviously has some impressive physical attributes. Most of recruiting evaluation is done on that basis. You bring in talent and you hope to mold it. Here you didn't have that opportunity. I don't think the coaching staff even had much film to make an evaluation. When did he play for OU? But they probably figured: big arm, mobility, and four years coaching at OU, how bad could he be? He's likely a step up from our guy. And when they got him on campus, they saw that the physical gifts were there. But in practice, the offense knows the defenses coming and (the defense knows the offense). He likely looked good in practice and they figured what slip-ups he had, he'd iron out over the course of the year. But he showed that he can't read and react to defenses on gameday, that he doesn't take advantage of his athleticism the way that Hunt does. Simply said, he couldn't make the adjustment to games.

The above scenario does not require the staff to have given him a promise to start, which doesn't make much sense. You promise him the starter's job to make sure we don't scare off high-profile transfers in the future? How often does the high-profile transfer happen? Maybe once every 2-3 years? Isn't it more important to your recruiting efforts on a yearly basis that you win, period? Wouldn't it be better for our recruiting for the local, downstate talent to win the job and be our star for the next three years?

 

[Stern]

That's silly. No one would accuse Bob Stoops of being a bad judge of talent. He recruited him first!

And never played him. Nuff said!'

Allen couldn't move the ball vs Wagner. It was friggin Wagner!! It is far fetched notion you are implying to think he was some "great practice player" who just sucked in games. Sorry, not buying it. The ONLY logical reason Allen started Weeks 1,2, and 3 was because during his transfer visits he was probably promised a starting job if he came. He wasn't going to transfer to a school and "sit"...he just sat on the bench at Oklahoma!! The kid was going to a new school to play. I am sure he was guaranteed some playing time up front or else he wasn't coming here!

And Shafer after losing Zach Allen probably was in panic mode and agreed. That's more logical. Either way the kid can wear a baseball cap and hold a clipboard the next 3 months. It's Hunt's job now!

 

[SmilinBob]

Who knows what was said but he has had a fair shot at qb and those first 2 series were brutal even though it's possible the play calling wasn't that great as well.

When Hunt looked at one receiver and then saw another open and hit him, he had me right then. I also believe the more reps the better he'll be.

 

[JohnCuse44]

If this staff feels like they owe Allen anything after 3 games then the fanbase may revolt even more. Shafer starting Allen against Penn State probably costed us that game with how bad our offense was. Allen has been given 2 games and the first 3 series today to show he was the QB. Hunt is the QB and if Allen starts against Tulane then Shafer is dumber than I though.

If Allen starts next game I am not watching another game all season.

 

[Toga]

Guys are promised things all the time, nature of the game.

The kids looked good on paper, and probably in practice. However, this being Syracuse (Nassib aside) the mobile duel threat guy tends to be the guy that works here.

It was like I was home again.

 

[Toga]

Who knows what was said but he has had a fair shot at qb and those first 2 series were brutal even though it's possible the play calling wasn't that great as well.

When Hunt looked at one receiver and then saw another open and hit him, he had me right then. I also believe the more reps the better he'll be.

IDK - would be tough to top a QB rating of a gazillion.

 

[supp]

And never played him. Nuff said!'

Allen couldn't move the ball vs Wagner. It was friggin Wagner!! It is far fetched notion you are implying to think he was some "great practice player" who just sucked in games. Sorry, not buying it. The ONLY logical reason Allen started Weeks 1,2, and 3 was because during his transfer visits he was probably promised a starting job if he came. He wasn't going to transfer to a school and "sit"...he just sat on the bench at Oklahoma!! The kid was going to a new school to play. I am sure he was guaranteed some playing time up front or else he wasn't coming here!

And Shafer after losing Zach Allen probably was in panic mode and agreed. That's more logical. Either way the kid can wear a baseball cap and hold a clipboard the next 3 months. It's Hunt's job now!

He never played him because Sam Bradford and Landry Fields were in front of him! At least this is how someone looking from outside would see it. Now Stoops let him go because he knew he wanted to go with Bell but again for the outsider there's no reason to think that Allen was a dud and that's why Bell was the choice. Most would, and did, assume the reason to be that Stoops thought Bell was better. But second best at OU is usually not chopped liver. And Stoops is not going to talk anyone, including friends, out of taking him. First, because who knows? Maybe things click for Allen in a new situation. And second, it's not good for your own recruiting to bad mouth guys in your program even if you have reason to (and we don't know if Stoops did).

When he arrived, he showed the coaches what he had showed Stoops: big kid, big arm, and mobile. What's not to like? No one is saying that Allen was a great practice player. All he had to do was show he was slightly better in practice than Hunt. Even if he was making the same number of mistakes as Hunt, I could see them going with Allen because his "combine numbers" probably outpace Hunt's significantly.

Again, no reason to think that there was a promise made to start the guy. You want to lose your team as a coach? The quickest way to do it is to start someone who is so clearly overmatched in practice that it's obvious his competitor is ahead of him. It seems highly doubtful that that was the case. Those fans who watched open practice also reported that Allen was as good if not better than Hunt in practice. Were they hallucinating along with the coaches?

 

[Stern]

Those fans who watched open practice also reported that Allen was as good if not better than Hunt in practice. Were they hallucinating along with the coaches?

Obviously everyone at these practices were because one kid has game and can play and the other is a stiff who doesn't belong on a football field at a major school!

 

[OrangePA]

If Allen starts next game I am not watching another game all season.

That's great.

I'm sure the team appreciates your support.

 

[OrangePA]

Obviously everyone at these practices were because one kid has game and can play and the other is a stiff who doesn't belong on a football field at a major school!

"doesn't belong on a football field at a major school."

You make every issue a mean spirited referendum on people. I just don't get it.

Drew Allen is a major college football player. I'm glad he's here. He has had game experience at a very high profile school and he offered a new offensive staff a degree of experience that Hunt did not when the season began. And he has arm strength that Hunt likely does not have.

Hunt appears more athletic and seems to have more savvy at this point. I like him a lot and I hope he starts next week.

But to go as far as you? To trash Drew Allen in that way? No. It's not fair and not accurate - not even close.

,

 

[Jake]

Coaches make promises all the time. I would think they gave Allen first dibs to get him here. All bets are off now that Allen was given two plus games and has the bed.

Sucks that I think we beat penn st with Hunt, but who knows.

I think the staff knew after northwestern that Allen wasn't the guy, because if he was, they would have simplified today's game plan to build his confidence and get the w.

It was very odd that they announced that Hunt would play today-had to undermine Allen's confidence- but they knew the change had to be made.

As I stated weeks ago, you don't attract Allen, who only has one season to play, without dome type of understanding.

Happens in hoops all the time. Why do you think jb has "token starters" seemingly every year.


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[Chip]

Put me on the list of people that thinks if our staff is promising starting jobs to QBs then we may have made a mistake in the hire. It just doesn't work in this sport. It's not like JB starting the game with Rakeem Christmas' replacement sitting at the scorer's table.

But for the record, I don't think he was promised anything other than instantly being able to compete for the starting role. Staff probably said only one other guy is in our potential plans for this season, he's young and hasn't played, so you have every opportunity. Once they saw he could pick up the offense in practice, that's who they wanted. Probably figured being around the OU big game atmosphere for 4 years was worth the test. Not to mention he's got the size and arm.

What they probably didn't realize, until today, is that the other guy might be more productive at gametime. It happens sometimes, and you can't simulate that in practice. Need a bigger sample size, but right now which way would you bet?


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[Upstate]

A NY QB for NY's team.

 

[supp]

Coaches make promises all the time. I would think they gave Allen first dibs to get him here. All bets are off now that Allen was given two plus games and has the bed.

Sucks that I think we beat penn st with Hunt, but who knows.

I think the staff knew after northwestern that Allen wasn't the guy, because if he was, they would have simplified today's game plan to build his confidence and get the w.

It was very odd that they announced that Hunt would play today-had to undermine Allen's confidence- but they knew the change had to be made.

As I stated weeks ago, you don't attract Allen, who only has one season to play, without dome type of understanding.

Happens in hoops all the time. Why do you think jb has "token starters" seemingly every year.


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But a promise made doesn't have to be an explanation for why they started him. Everyone's assuming that because he the bed in games but that's because we as humans have a tendency towards hindsight bias. We have an unexpected outcome here, so we change or overlook our initial understanding of the situation to account for the new information at hand. We forget then how people outside the program (fans, reporters, etc.) saw the competition in the preseason as essentially equal or slightly in the favor of Allen and instead claim that the reason why he wound up on top was b/c a promise made to him.

Boeheim might promise starting positions to grab a player but he's at least smart enough to pull them before they do much damage! And if this strategy is supposedly helpful to us in bball recruiting, I'm not sure how recruits don't see through it after all these years of "the quick trigger and grab a seat for the rest of the game" routine! I don't think Boeheim ever starts guys with the intention of pulling them. They're in the lineup because they've got the most upside and he's hoping it'll all suddenly click for them. And sometimes it does. To be honest, I'm not sure I buy the token starters thing for bball either.

But in any case, I don't think you can draw a good comparison from basketball to this. What happened here in this situation? Why not sub him out quicker then if it was all just a promise made to give him a go at starting? They must have believed in him to leave him in there. Given the facts at hand, it's hard to see this all as a manipulation.

 

[ImperialOrange]

That's great.

I'm sure the team appreciates your support.

If Allen starts next week half of the team probably wont show up to watch the game either.

 

[phil77]

If Allen starts next week half of the team probably wont show up to watch the game either.

That would be no different then the last three weeks Allen has started. Seems half the team decided not to play for Allen. I find it funny that as soon as Hunt came in all the sudden West was wide open and running past people. But when Allen was starting he can't get 6 inches of separation from any defender.

 

[ImperialOrange]

[What'se="phil77, post: 745846, member: 1169"]That would be no different then the last three weeks Allen has started. Seems half the team decided not to play for Allen. I find it funny that as soon as Hunt came in all the sudden West was wide open and running past people. But when Allen was starting he can't get 6 inches of separation from any defender.[/quote]

Yeah you're probably right and we had guys throwing the penn state and nw games on purpose to prove a point. Wait no, on second thought that doesn't make sense at all.

I'm sure exactly 0 guys on the team wanted to start 0-2 this year and play their home opener in front of 30,000 empty seats. I would even venture to guess the amount of seperation West and co got was directly related to Hunt looking off defenders instead of locking in and the fact that they had to worry about a qb that would take off and run.