Some brief thoughts

[Dick_in_MI]

In a perfect world, we would have been in a truly Eastern (not southeastern, but Eastern) conference forever. But that world never came to pass and the fork in the road happened long ago.

The ACC is the best fit, especially with Pitt joining us. We are moving to a conference which will now have more longterm football rivals than the one we are leaving (BC, Pitt, Miami, VT vs RU and WVU). UConn, of course, is not a longterm football rival.

As for hoops, I hear lots of sorrow over the loss of our rivalries with G'town, Nova, and UConn...but not so much about the loss of our games with the 80 or so other BE hoops teams, and that says a lot. I'll miss those few rivalry games but when looking at the big picture, Duke, UNC et al aren't bad substitutes. Not bad at all.

The loss of the BET for NY area fans is significant, but for guys like me it's a non-issue. Also, there is a certain amount of satisfaction in sticking it to the BE hoops-only's via this move.

The new ACC is still not a selector conference ala the SEC and the B10 in the sense that if one of those two conferences came calling, most ACC schools would be scanning the fine print in the $20M buyout clause with the biggest magnifying glass they could find. But it's the next best thing, stability-wise. Stability plus the security of knowing that we can finally invest longterm in a home where we can unpack our possessions and settle in for the long haul.

I've been a skeptic, Gross-wise, but the man deserves a lot of credit for this. He has solidified SU's place at the table for the longer term and that is huge.

 

[orange79]

I've been a skeptic, Gross-wise, but the man deserves a lot of credit for this. He has solidified SU's place at the table for the longer term and that is huge.

Amen. I say this in all seriousness to TGD - you are forgiven for the GRob fiasco.

 

[omniorange]

I still firmly believe we will continue to play G'Town and Nova as OOC games regularly, if not annually.

I don't see the UConn series continued without them also joining the ACC.

As for football, the ACC will be the better conference since it does look like FSU and Clemson are "locked" in.

Only things I will miss are the WVU football rivalry and the BET at MSG.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[nralecuse]

For many reasons I am glad to see this happen.
I do not doubt this is the best move for the university.
For those who see this otherwise, perhaps time will help.
GO ORANGE !

 

[Scooch]

Good post, Dick.

The dream of an "Eastern" football comference died 21 years ago, when Penn State went to the Big Ten. Every single thing that has occured since then has just been rearranging deck chairs until a better conference, either the ACC or Big Ten, decided to annex the "east".

 

[thebigeast44]

Good comments Dick - most of us wish an Eastern conference would have worked out but that ship sailed 30 years ago when Penn State was not invited to join The Big East.

My largest concern here is that we will not be in the same division of the ACC as Duke and North Carolina - meaning that we will not see those teams in the Dome very often and may not play them every year. Depending on how this is set up, we MAY HAVE to set up games with our former rivals (if they will have us) just to have an interesting enough home schedule. It may also hurt recruiting if we are viewed to be in the "weaker" division.

Of course, we truly do not know how all this will work out long term. I've read a lot of comments and there are many good points on both sides. At this point, I think the majority of people would agree that we had to make a move and this may have been the best one to make. However, I'd also say there are many concerns that come along with the move.

It will be tough to get used to being a part of the ACC after so many years of rooting against them as a member of a competitive conference. It will be difficult to establish the rivalries in basketball we have enjoyed in the Big East - I'm hoping Big John comes out of retirement to coach one of their teams It will be interesting to read the threads during the NCAA tournaments to come when people go back and forth if we should be rooting for our conference brethren in the tournament. At this point, I cannot imagine ever rooting for any of the ACC teams whether in the tournament or the regular season.

As many people are asking about the country right now, are our better days behind us? The 80's were the glory days for the Big East and SU in many ways - I miss those days. But that era is behind us and will never return. SU has made what they think is the best move for their future. I hope it works out for the best.

Regardless, I'll continue to cheer on the Orange wherever they play. Let's Go Orange!!!

 

[Chip]

I was thinking about this and only comparing it to yesterday, not yester-year. And from yesterday, in football, I will not miss:

- The games with USF
- The games with Cincy
- The games with Louisville
- The games with Rutgers (although it might return)
- The games with UConn (although it might return)
- The games with TCU (because I don't remember any)

I will miss the games with WVU, but I think it can be replaced by the return of the VT series, and BC being more meaningful than a non conference finale.

On the football side, I can't imagine any scenario where a fan couldn't be ridiculously excited.

On the hoops side, I understand that yesterday and yester-year have key similarities (long time opponents even though we don't play them twice anymore and added a lot of uninteresting opponents). So I can see why it will take a little longer.

Lax fans have to join football fans and have trouble finding any scenario that makes this a bad move.

 

[SWC75]

I think eventually two other Big East schools will be joining us and that will ease the transtion.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

Amen. I say this in all seriousness to TGD - you are forgiven for the GRob fiasco.

Amen to that, although the hiring of Marrone has basically helped ease the lingering GRob-itis.

I think we were all wondering where Syracuse would be once the conference alignment musical chairs started. I did not expect we would be at the beginning of this thing, I thought for sure we would be scrambling to get aligned with another conference. Someone joked on TNIAAM that we would wind up in the Patriot League. The thought spooked me completely.

Color me excited. As an NC resident I am elated that I will get to watch games on basic cable and actually attend games. There are a lot of us former NYers in the southeast now, it's great that we'll have a chance to reconnect with our team on a more regular occasion!

 

[omniorange]

Good post, Dick.

The dream of an "Eastern" football comference died 21 years ago, when Penn State went to the Big Ten. Every single thing that has occured since then has just been rearranging deck chairs until a better conference, either the ACC or Big Ten, decided to annex the "east".

The strange part is that neither has truly "annexed" the east. The ACC has three northeastern teams now in BC, SU, and Pitt, but at the moment seem unwilling to pull the trigger on the 2 remaining in UConn and RU (although they are supposedly on deck for #15 and #16).

And last summer, the Big Ten made a big deal about the importance of the northeastern corridor, but ultimately failed to pull the trigger as well. Do they pull the trigger on UConn and RU? The dominoes are still falling and I'm anxious to see how the final pieces fall into place.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Dick_in_MI]

The strange part is that neither has truly "annexed" the east. The ACC has three northeastern teams now in BC, SU, and Pitt, but at the moment seem unwilling to pull the trigger on the 2 remaining in UConn and RU (although they are supposedly on deck for #15 and #16).

And last summer, the Big Ten made a big deal about the importance of the northeastern corridor, but ultimately failed to pull the trigger as well. Do they pull the trigger on UConn and RU? The dominoes are still falling and I'm anxious to see how the final pieces fall into place.

Cheers,
Neil

When the B10 passed on any of the Northeastern schools, I wondered if perhaps their due diligence found it to be a lot less lucrative than most seem to believe. I think they could eventually scoop up a RU or UConn but I'm a lot less certain of their interest in the NE corridor than I used to be.

If they are serious about it, they probably have to move quickly. If they don't move quickly, it may be a sign that they have thought about the NE and decided to pass.

On another matter, I have mixed feelings about RU & UConn to the ACC. On one hand, it would make travel easier for SU and give the NYC fans who are whining about the move something to ease their pain. It also would create a nice northern voting bloc to offset some of the Tobacco Road authority.

But on the other hand, a marginalized RU and UConn sure would help a lot in the football recruiting wars. We'd still be competeing with BC and Pitt (plus half the B10 and some of the ACC) for Northeastern recruits, but we wouldn't have to worry too much about RU or the Huskies.

 

[orange79]

But on the other hand, a marginalized RU and UConn sure would help a lot in the football recruiting wars. We'd still be competeing with BC and Pitt (plus half the B10 and some of the ACC) for Northeastern recruits, but we wouldn't have to worry too much about RU or the Huskies.

This is perhaps the most important thing. Hope they (well, at least Rutgers) wither and die on the vine.

 

[SWC75]

Amen to that, although the hiring of Marrone has basically helped ease the lingering GRob-itis.

I think we were all wondering where Syracuse would be once the conference alignment musical chairs started. I did not expect we would be at the beginning of this thing, I thought for sure we would be scrambling to get aligned with another conference. Someone joked on TNIAAM that we would wind up in the Patriot League. The thought spooked me completely.

Color me excited. As an NC resident I am elated that I will get to watch games on basic cable and actually attend games. There are a lot of us former NYers in the southeast now, it's great that we'll have a chance to reconnect with our team on a more regular occasion!

We have gotten off the "hampster wheel of speculation". That feels good.

 

[nralecuse]

I was thinking about this and only comparing it to yesterday, not yester-year. And from yesterday, in football, I will not miss:

- The games with USF
- The games with Cincy
- The games with Louisville
- The games with Rutgers (although it might return)
- The games with UConn (although it might return)
- The games with TCU (because I don't remember any)

I will miss the games with WVU, but I think it can be replaced by the return of the VT series, and BC being more meaningful than a non conference finale.

On the football side, I can't imagine any scenario where a fan couldn't be ridiculously excited.

On the hoops side, I understand that yesterday and yester-year have key similarities (long time opponents even though we don't play them twice anymore and added a lot of uninteresting opponents). So I can see why it will take a little longer.

Lax fans have to join football fans and have trouble finding any scenario that makes this a bad move.

 

[nralecuse]

Well said.
GO ORANGE !

 

[Scooch]

The strange part is that neither has truly "annexed" the east. The ACC has three northeastern teams now in BC, SU, and Pitt, but at the moment seem unwilling to pull the trigger on the 2 remaining in UConn and RU (although they are supposedly on deck for #15 and #16).

And last summer, the Big Ten made a big deal about the importance of the northeastern corridor, but ultimately failed to pull the trigger as well. Do they pull the trigger on UConn and RU? The dominoes are still falling and I'm anxious to see how the final pieces fall into place.

Cheers,
Neil

I get that, just saying that slowly but surely the "eastern" football schools are moving into conferences that take football seriously. I mean this almost happened 25 years ago, when SU, BC and PItt warned the BE they'd leave if a football conference wasn't created. Then they were going to join the Metro Conference, which ironically counted VaTech and Florida State as members.

Mostly, the east never had enough viable teams to support itself. There was always going to be a southern/midwestern lean to it. So I for one don't mourn the loss of an eastern conference, since it was DOA decades ago anyway.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

The strange part is that neither has truly "annexed" the east. The ACC has three northeastern teams now in BC, SU, and Pitt, but at the moment seem unwilling to pull the trigger on the 2 remaining in UConn and RU (although they are supposedly on deck for #15 and #16).

And last summer, the Big Ten made a big deal about the importance of the northeastern corridor, but ultimately failed to pull the trigger as well. Do they pull the trigger on UConn and RU? The dominoes are still falling and I'm anxious to see how the final pieces fall into place.

Cheers,
Neil

Great point. Doesn't it seem like the ACC and B10 are now playing a big game of chicken with ND and the Northeast? Looks like the ACC doubled down on the NE.

Love to know what Swarbrick is thinking now...

 

[mojaveheel]

Dick:

your next to last paragraph is not wrong as much as it is myopic...

UNC received overtures from both the B1G and the SEC as did dook (yes, that is the correct spelling), and to their credit dook, independently, said thanks, but no thanks, as did UNC...

both the B1G and the SEC felt they could absorb the hit they would take with dook football if UNC came as well...

both UNC and dook voted against ANY expansion the last time around...

we preferred a return to the past, but the world doesn't work that way...

so both said NO to the B1G and the SEC and voted yes to partnering with SU and PITT, this time around...

it was a deliberate choice, although both you and we are not gettin' our druthers...

the upside is that there is tremendous potential going forward for a true Atlantic Coast league and the stability that comes with it for all of us...

again, welcome...

 

[SWC75]

Alnd we are actually in

I get that, just saying that slowly but surely the "eastern" football schools are moving into conferences that take football seriously. I mean this almost happened 25 years ago, when SU, BC and PItt warned the BE they'd leave if a football conference wasn't created. Then they were going to join the Metro Conference, which ironically counted VaTech and Florida State as members.

Mostly, the east never had enough viable teams to support itself. There was always going to be a southern/midwestern lean to it. So I for one don't mourn the loss of an eastern conference, since it was DOA decades ago anyway.

And we are actually in a conference that is what it describes- the Atlantic Coast Conference. Of course, that would change if they got Notre Dame or Texas but they won't. The Big "East" was talking about Kansas, TCU, Baylor...etc.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Dick:

your next to last paragraph is not wrong as much as it is myopic...

UNC received overtures from both the B1G and the SEC as did dook (yes, that is the correct spelling), and to their credit dook, independently, said thanks, but no thanks, as did UNC...

both the B1G and the SEC felt they could absorb the hit they would take with dook football if UNC came as well...

both UNC and dook voted against ANY expansion the last time around...

we preferred a return to the past, but the world doesn't work that way...

so both said NO to the B1G and the SEC and voted yes to partnering with SU and PITT, this time around...

it was a deliberate choice, although both you and we are not gettin' our druthers...

the upside is that there is tremendous potential going forward for a true Atlantic Coast league and the stability that comes with it for all of us...

again, welcome...

I don't believe for a nanosecond that the B10 would have ever had any serious interest in either school. But I do get a huge chuckle about your claim that UNC and Duke said no thanks to the B10. That's a real day brightener. That's like me saying no thanks to Claudia Schiffer and then bragging about it as though she ever knew I existed

 

[orlandoorange]

If I'm the ACC, I invite UConn and RU and block the B1G from the NE for the foreseeable future.

 

[HOFCeluck]

It will be tough to get used to being a part of the ACC after so many years of rooting against them as a member of a competitive conference. It will be difficult to establish the rivalries in basketball we have enjoyed in the Big East - I'm hoping Big John comes out of retirement to coach one of their teams It will be interesting to read the threads during the NCAA tournaments to come when people go back and forth if we should be rooting for our conference brethren in the tournament. At this point, I cannot imagine ever rooting for any of the ACC teams whether in the tournament or the regular season.

That's the thing...rivalries change. Forty years ago our big rivals in basketball were regional schools like Bonaventure and Niagra. Sixty years ago Colgate was our biggest football rival. Fifteen years ago we had marquee games with Va Tech and Miami. Rivalries change over time and I don't think this transition will be as difficult as some seem. Hell we already have annual battlles with Maryland on the recruiting front.

And who says you have to root for the conference? I never rooted for teams because they happened to play in the Big East, I am not changing that now.


As many people are asking about the country right now, are our better days behind us? The 80's were the glory days for the Big East and SU in many ways - I miss those days. But that era is behind us and will never return. SU has made what they think is the best move for their future. I hope it works out for the best.

How many national titles did we win in the 80's?

Regardless, I'll continue to cheer on the Orange wherever they play. Let's Go Orange!!!

 

[mojaveheel]

belief doesn't change reality...

did you know Jim Delaney, (who is a fraternity brother), is a UNC grad...

he played SG for UNC teams that went to the final four many times in the late 60s...

he understands the value of that dook-UNC matchup which ESPN was so happy to get their hands on...

there was no formal offer, I'll grant you that...

but that may have been because thhey already knew the answer after putting out feelers...

do you know what school leads all others in the NCAA for sale of tertiary TV rights (more than 11 million in 2009-2010) before they get a single penny from the ACC contracts?

perhaps you don't know as much as you think...

 

[44USMC]

Great point. Doesn't it seem like the ACC and B10 are now playing a big game of chicken with ND and the Northeast? Looks like the ACC doubled down on the NE.

Love to know what Swarbrick is thinking now...

This reminds me of the Great Game where the players were Great Britain and Russia fighting over the control of Central and South Asia.

 

[44USMC]

If I'm the ACC, I invite UConn and RU and block the B1G from the NE for the foreseeable future.

It seems that now the ACC holds all the cards. (B10 Commish in his best Sean Connery voice: "Nice move ACC, but your motha's a whore").