Spring Football starts March 30

[ImperialOrange]

We played 2020 with 3 / 4 starters from the 2019 campaign. O-Line play was a BAD look that can't be explained away by injuries.

I honestly don't recall who our starters were in 2019 vs 2020 but Bergeron, Tisdale and Vetterelo were the only 3 healthy lineman last year aside from true frosh Ilaoa who played well for his part. Rest of them missed and/or played injured majority of the season.

Was a weird year and very realistically 2021 could see 3 or 4 new starters AND have healthy competition across the entire 2 deep. With our new oline coach and a full preseason it should look drastically different as far as names and performance on the field.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think this is overblown some. The primary issues the last two years has been OL play which leads to no running game. If we could get the running game attacking the middle of the field with relative success, our whole O would be way way more effective.

2018 - ED’s ability to scramble up the middle helped a lot. Opens up a lot of other things

Well, if you can't execute the screen pass adequately, the other way to slow down a big pass rush is to slip the tight end into the spot right behind where the linebacker was and hit him with a quick pass. Linemen don't have to hold their blocks quite as long, and then you have a big TE matched up with a safety.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[sufandu]

Why are you getting so hostile? My statement was not personal.

I'm getting hostile? Ok. You replied to a comment in a way that shifted the conversation away from where it was. It didn't make sense. We weren't specifically talking about the offensive line. That was simply a small piece of the greater conversation.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think there are some guys on there that aren't with the program anymore.

 

[money3189]

You don't run that formation the whole game. It's a different look that makes you far less predictable, in my opinion. In fact, it's a better variant on having that big lineman as our blocking back, because you know exactly where the play is going when he's in there

We ran 2 back sets a lot about 10 years ago at the HS level. Some HS teams still do it but we dont as much.

As far as college. Im not a fan of it at that level. It adds another defender in the box that you have to block and It takes away the lead, power and counter plays. Its fine to run it at times but you become even more predictable IMO because you are adding another LB in the box while being limited to zone read, outside zone concepts. How many are you fooling with mis direction on those plays? Its cool to run it a lot if you have a clear advantage against your opponent in that set but not many do and thats why college teams dont run it much.

There limits to what you can do but teams dont know exactly where the ball is going when Elmore is in there. There are various type of blocks he can make. lead, counter, wham, kick outs, reach blocks. For ex. you can have Elmore off set strong and run zone weak. Its all about manipulating the defense. Its much more than just having a FB in the game. On top of all that they can still run their pass plays. You still have 3 or 4 pass threats to throw to in that set. You might even get invert safeties trying to stop the run. Which allows you to take shots down the field. Thats a big part of their offense.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I think there are some guys on there that aren't with the program anymore.

Cross them off then.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

We ran 2 back sets a lot about 10 years ago at the HS level. Some HS teams still do it but we dont as much.

As far as college. Im not a fan of it at that level. It adds another defender in the box that you have to block and It takes away the lead, power and counter plays. Its fine to run it at times but you become even more predictable IMO because you are adding another LB in the box while being limited to zone read, outside zone concepts. How many are you fooling with mis direction on those plays? Its cool to run it a lot if you have a clear advantage against your opponent in that set but not many do and thats why college teams dont run it much.

There limits to what you can do but teams dont know exactly where the ball is going when Elmore is in there. There various type of blocks he can make. lead, counter, wham, kick outs, reach blocks. For ex. you can have Elmore off set strong and run zone weak. Its all about manipulating the defense. Its much more than just having a FB in the game. On top of all that they can still run their pass plays. You still have 3 or 4 pass threats to throw to in that set. You might even get invert safeties trying to stop the run. Which allows you to take shots down the field. Thats a big part of their offense.

I think in theory you're right about the options Elmore provides, and I definitely haven't done any film breakdowns of tendencies, but it does seem like when Elmore's in we might be a tad predictable trying to run right behind him.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Cross them off then.

That's cold.

 

[IthacaMatt]

As far as college. Im not a fan of it at that level. It adds another defender in the box that you have to block and It takes away the lead, power and counter plays. Its fine to run it at times but you become even more predictable IMO because you are adding another LB in the box while being limited to zone read, outside zone concepts. How many are you fooling with mis direction on those plays? Its cool to run it a lot if you have a clear advantage against your opponent in that set but not many do and thats why college teams dont run it much.

This is a fair comment. My response would be that although the box is more crowded, you are going to get more man-to-man coverage on the receivers. Zone-Read isn't necessarily a great call against 8 in the box, but that's where the ability to perform traditional run blocking is irreplaceable. If you can't run block, then you can't do this. It all starts there.

Maybe you don't get good at run blocking if you don't try to run any kind of sophisticated interplay among the linemen. That takes practice. It's a matter of what you want to make most important. After what we've seen, I think the importance of competent run blocking and a running game can't be overstated.

 

[money3189]

This is a fair comment. My response would be that although the box is more crowded, you are going to get more man-to-man coverage on the receivers. Zone-Read isn't necessarily a great call against 8 in the box, but that's where the ability to perform traditional run blocking is irreplaceable. If you can't run block, then you can't do this. It all starts there.

Maybe you don't get good at run blocking if you don't try to run any kind of sophisticated interplay among the linemen. That takes practice. It's a matter of what you want to make most important. After what we've seen, I think the importance of competent run blocking and a running game can't be overstated.

What you say has value. Im just not a fan of doing it alot if its going to take away those down hill gap scheme plays.

I think its a teaching, technique, fundamental and culture issue more than anything (maybe a S&C issue as well) Dino goes under center, he runs unbalance power plays on the goal line. He runs a lot of gap concepts ( specifically with Dungey). I dont think their run scheme is that much different than most of the best run teams in college football. For some reason they just dont execute it well enough. How many teams do you think run straight man blocking these days?

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[GoSU96]

doesnt look like a guy that is gripping too tight

 

[ImperialOrange]

Well, if you can't execute the screen pass adequately, the other way to slow down a big pass rush is to slip the tight end into the spot right behind where the linebacker was and hit him with a quick pass. Linemen don't have to hold their blocks quite as long, and then you have a big TE matched up with a safety.

You're not wrong but without a deep threat to peel the top off the defense any safety worth a damn is sitting on that route to pick it or tip for a team mate to pick. Cisco and Trill feasted on this more than once.

Disclaimer, this is not a shot at our WR group as I think we have guys that can stretch the field but you HAVE to give them some time to work. Randy Moss couldn't have got open down field before our QBs got blown up last season.

 

[money3189]

I think in theory you're right about the options Elmore provides, and I definitely haven't done any film breakdowns of tendencies, but it does seem like when Elmore's in we might be a tad predictable trying to run right behind him.

Yes, every team has tendencies based on personnel. What do you think they do with him that makes it predictable? Do you think they run the same run plays? I just don't recall people saying through out the 70's, 80's and 90's that the offensives were predictable because of the FB in the I formation. You need to have your best run personnel in and make people stop you. Isn’t that what people want here?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[IthacaMatt]

You didnt mention FB. lol. You said running backs. Having two running backs blocking for each other in a spread set doesnt work as well.

Put Josh Hough (6-3, 240) in there with Sean Tucker (5-10, 205). Hough isn't just a lead blocker, he's a Larry Csonka type of RB who can get those short yardage first downs for us. But he can also open a hole for Tucker.

You can run triple option with a backfield like that - Hough up the middle, option the defensive end with the option to toss to Tucker around the end, or the QB cuts it inside. This would probably be better for when we have the Mississippi State kid in there.

 

[IthacaMatt]

You're not wrong but without a deep threat to peel the top off the defense any safety worth a damn is sitting on that route to pick it or tip for a team mate to pick. Cisco and Trill feasted on this more than once.

Disclaimer, this is not a shot at our WR group as I think we have guys that can stretch the field but you HAVE to give them some time to work. Randy Moss couldn't have got open down field before our QBs got blown up last season.

Absolutely. That's where Taj and Tommy have to get on the same page this summer. I'd really like to see a whole season of them both being healthy, and not yelling at each other on the sidelines so much on TV.

 

[AngryOtto]

He’s smiling because everyone else is in media blackout.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yes, every team has tendencies based on personnel. What do you think they do with him that makes it predictable? Do you think they run the same run plays? I just don't recall people saying through out the 70's, 80's and 90's that the offensives were predictable because of the FB in the I formation. You need to have your best run personnel in and make people stop you. Isn’t that what people want here?

money you're making the very common mistake here of assuming I have any idea what I'm talking about.

 

[money3189]

Put Josh Hough (6-3, 240) in there with Sean Tucker (5-10, 205). Hough isn't just a lead blocker, he's a Larry Csonka type of RB who can get those short yardage first downs for us. But he can also open a hole for Tucker.

You can run triple option with a backfield like that - Hough up the middle, option the defensive end with the option to toss to Tucker around the end, or the QB cuts it inside. This would probably be better for when we have the Mississippi State kid in there.

Yes, absolutely have some packages in there with those guys. Especially if they are killing it and its to our advantage against a particular team. Why not? I can see stuff like that in the red zone, short yardage or even 1st and 10.

 

[money3189]

money you're making the very common mistake here of assuming I have any idea what I'm talking about.

You know what you are talking about. I read a lot of posts on here. The things you mention are worth discussing. On top of that, these are just my opinions. Im no expert by any means.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[OttoinGrotto]

You know what you are talking about. I read a lot of posts on here. The things you mention are worth discussing. On top of that, these are just my opinions. Im no expert by any means.

Fair enough and I appreciate it.

Again, this vastly overgeneralized and my observations could likely be wrong, but sometimes it appears like we run two specific offensive sets. In both, we value being able to run up the middle.

It seems we start most games going 4 wide, or 3 wide with a TE and the objective is to spread things out and get a light box, and we try to gain yards up the middle against that box.

When it fails... we switch to a bigger set with Elmore at FB (or a TE set back a little from the line) and a TE, accepting a more crowded box, but hoping that by running behind Elmore we can now effectively run up the middle. It seems like the top priority when Elmore is in to see if we can run up the middle effectively whereas the other offensive set brings a bit more variety to the play calling.

 

[Chip]

Cross them off then.