SU-UNC game thoughts

[orangepassion]

• First of all, kudos to our D for keeping us in the game for 3 quarters against probably the 2nd best offense in the conference. Not only did they give us stops, they gave us 2 turnovers, including one deep in UNC territory
• Thought the DB's in particular were excellent, particularly their tackling
• Have to be impressed w/ how Tony White was able to implement his new Defense in a crazy offseason. Love the job he's doing.
• TD missed a few throws, but showed a ton of progress making something out of nothing several times and getting us 1st downs. Would still like to see us use the middle of the field more, as we're generally more successful there than we have WR's our tip-toe the sidelines and hope not to get pushed out of bounds
• The biggest issue of the game was the run blocking or lack thereof. It looked like boys going against men when we tried to run-No physicality, no push, no holes. I don't understand people who blame the backs. It's the same thing year after year, especially early in the season. You can't have a successful offense w/o at least a mediocre running game. It's year 5 and we've had a bad running game basically every year in the Babers era w/ Dungey carrying us in the magical 2018 season. You wonder why our 2 opt-outs are RB's?
• Related to the above, do any of you feel confident we're going to score when we get in the red zone. When Devito got tackled after his nice run to the 3 yard line, I said to my son-I have no confidence we're going to get it in from here. Either our OL has to get a lot better there or we have to get more creative. I get the same feeling of dread I had last year when we get tackled there, even if we have first and goal at the 1-yard line.
• In contrast to our run blocking, which was an F, I'd give us a C+ for our pass blocking. Not great, but okay. Good enough if we had any threat of a running game. It's unfortunate we have to waste our TE's receiving abilities
• We used the middle of the field a little more than last year, but still not enough. Want to see more Nykeim as our Erv Phillips. The quick passes in the middle of the field were generally fairly successful
• My biggest concern about DB is it seems there has been no adjustment in his offense from day 1, which is shocking to me, as he came in as a offensive innovator. He saw the Defense needed a change and made a great move there, but still doing way too many 1st down runs up the middle when it's not our strength. We have a very fast and elusive RB and 2 new starting guards-How does it make sense to then keep running him up the middle most of the time. It just seems instead of playing to our strengths and personnel, such as getting JJ out in space, it's the same game plan trying to fit circles into squares (or however that quote goes). We did it a couple of times, but that has to be our base instead of the changeup-let the runs up the middle be our changeup.
• Dazz is a fantastic returner, but was I the only one holding my breath every return. Tackling there wasn't pretty-Hopefully just a game 1 issue.
• Nykeim looked good on the returns.
• Will learn a lot about this team on Saturday

 

[orangepassion]

I know people want to move on from this game, but I like suffering and saw the first half again over the last 2 nights and have some additional observations:

• Lots of holding from UNC, but impressed w/ the blocking of their skill position players, particularly their backs
• Was very bizarre to see only our guys slipping/tripping over and over during the game. Think Dino said in Post-game our guys were cutting off the wrong foot. Just weird that so many of our guys were doing it and didn't see UNC do it once
• We really were just a drop off on many plays from making big plays
• We were very successful almost every time we passed to the middle of the field
• We were unsuccessful on possibly every sideline pass down the field
• Vettorello should file a report against their DT for assault. He was abused.
• TD did have a handful where he could have given the WR's a chance and either threw it out of reach or ran out of bounds. Seemed to run much better North-South than East-West. We'll see this weekend if he can improve this after he sees the tape
• The LB's are digging in for those 1st down inside runs-Would love to see JJ get some swing passes there, as it looks like he could do major damage there
• There's hope for our offense.

 

[jgeorge322]

Love the positivity but i dont know, offense hasnt felt right since eric left outside of the duke game

 

[Cuse12]

Love the positivity but i dont know, offense hasnt felt right since eric left outside of the duke game

I think no one realized or appreciated how much Eric's running ability helped the OL during those years. Granted the OL was better in 2018 of course, but naturally the defense had to account for the edge when we did our RPO's. The defense naturally would hesitate to cover the edge on the RPO's making it a more favorable outcome for the dive. Now the DL are just balls to the wall running downhill. The defense knows that if they send 5-6 guys all in one direction our line simply can not handle it. But, we continue to run the same dive play over and over.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

 

[SoBristol]

I think no one realized or appreciated how much Eric's running ability helped the OL during those years. Granted the OL was better in 2018 of course, but naturally the defense had to account for the edge when we did our RPO's. The defense naturally would hesitate to cover the edge on the RPO's making it a more favorable outcome for the dive. Now the DL are just balls to the wall running downhill. The defense knows that if they send 5-6 guys all in one direction our line simply can not handle it. But, we continue to run the same dive play over and over. . . . .

I would put it differently. Most people fully understood how valuable Dungey was with his running ability and his ability to use all his weapons. Some thought a pretty passer would be a better fit for Dino’s offense. Those people are getting a lesson in college football.

 

[TheCusian]

I still think the Baylor system has been around long enough that it's been figured out a bit. Throw in a bad-to-mediocre line and it limits the system even more.

It's time to for that system to evolve. I wonder if Dino or Sterling can do it. Hope so. Don't know.

 

[Cuse12]

I would put it differently. Most people fully understood how valuable Dungey was with his running ability and his ability to use all his weapons. Some thought a pretty passer would be a better fit for Dino’s offense. Those people are getting a lesson in college football.

I agree, well put!

 

[Keger03]

I think no one realized or appreciated how much Eric's running ability helped the OL during those years. Granted the OL was better in 2018 of course, but naturally the defense had to account for the edge when we did our RPO's. The defense naturally would hesitate to cover the edge on the RPO's making it a more favorable outcome for the dive. Now the DL are just balls to the wall running downhill. The defense knows that if they send 5-6 guys all in one direction our line simply can not handle it. But, we continue to run the same dive play over and over.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

To add to this, I dont think people realize how much Eric knew this offense and was comfortable in it. He knew exactly what was going to happen on the entire field, every play. Not just one sideline.

 

[sufandu]

I would put it differently. Most people fully understood how valuable Dungey was with his running ability and his ability to use all his weapons. Some thought a pretty passer would be a better fit for Dino’s offense. Those people are getting a lesson in college football.

I think most of what you said is accurate. The last part isn't. People thought a higher level pocket passer would be a better fit. The question that remains to be answered is if we actually have a better pocket passer.

 

[sufandu]

I still think the Baylor system has been around long enough that it's been figured out a bit. Throw in a bad-to-mediocre line and it limits the system even more.

It's time to for that system to evolve. I wonder if Dino or Sterling can do it. Hope so. Don't know.

It's too bad Baylor was filled with a bunch of scumbags. It would have been interesting to see what kind of staying power the system had there.

 

[orangepassion]

Another issue that I forgot to mention was that when TD would scramble, the receivers were generally just standing around and not continually trying to get open. That's part of the reason why we had no success when he scrambled-The receivers need to keep moving and not give up on the play.

 

[SoBristol]

I think most of what you said is accurate. The last part isn't. People thought a higher level pocket passer would be a better fit. The question that remains to be answered is if we actually have a better pocket passer.

Yes, some thought a generic pro-style passer would be a better fit for a spread offense. The necessary conditions would be a much stronger OL and a running attack that can operate with a single all-purpose back.

 

[Pyle]

Yes, some thought a generic pro-style passer would be a better fit for a spread offense. The necessary conditions would be a much stronger OL and a running attack that can operate with a single all-purpose back.

Jimmy Garapolo is the reason people though TD would be better. BG is the reason that we shouldn't need superior OL and RB to run this system. Why did it work there?

 

[FasterCuse]

Jimmy Garapolo is the reason people though TD would be better. BG is the reason that we shouldn't need superior OL and RB to run this system. Why did it work there?

It worked there because the offense was still relatively new, and the teams they played didn't have the staffs to analyze the offense and shut it down like a lot the ACC teams do.

 

[blizz]

It worked there because the offense was still relatively new, and the teams they played didn't have the staffs to analyze the offense and shut it down like a lot the ACC teams do.

Respectfully disagree. I see alot of the same looks. Lots of man and press coverage on the outside, 6 in the box. Go watch some of those BG and EI games. You'll notice the ball coming out way faster, lots of short passes to digs and curls run by the slot, read-option where the read occurs way faster, lots of pulls from the read option to throw to an interior receiver because the hand off for the dive gets the lb or safety to step up in the box. Its not that defenses have figured it out, its not being run well.

 

[TheCusian]

Jimmy Garapolo is the reason people though TD would be better. BG is the reason that we shouldn't need superior OL and RB to run this system. Why did it work there?

The system was younger back then and they largely went against peer talent. BG was top/middle of the pack in terms of MAC recruiting.

 

[TheCusian]

Respectfully disagree. I see alot of the same looks. Lots of man and press coverage on the outside, 6 in the box. Go watch some of those BG and EI games. You'll notice the ball coming out way faster, lots of short passes to digs and curls run by the slot, read-option where the read occurs way faster, lots of pulls from the read option to throw to an interior receiver because the hand off for the dive gets the lb or safety to step up in the box. Its not that defenses have figured it out, its not being run well.

This too

 

[SoBristol]

Jimmy Garapolo is the reason people though TD would be better. BG is the reason that we shouldn't need superior OL and RB to run this system. Why did it work there?

I agree with the replies above, but also BG had a strong OL and a RB, actually two 1000 yd runners. Check the all-league MAC team during Dino's second year at BG and check the RB stats. If a team can't get a running attack going, it can't get into favorable down & distance situations where the defense is kept guessing. Then, the D can just bring pressure and see how the QB can handle it. Every team on our schedule will know how to shut down Tommy.

 

[sutomcat]

My big concern with the SU offense is how we handle the way Pitt defends us.

They play man coverage and aggressively attack the holes in the OL with run blitzes.

UNC saw this approach on film and used it against us last week.

We had no answer for it last year and we had no answer for it last week.

If they are going to pull up the middle with blitzes, the last thing we should do is continually run the ball up the middle.

I hope we have a new and improved game plan for Pitt. This will provide great insight into what kind of an OC Sterlin is going to be. Hoping to see a willingness to try something different on Saturday.

 

[Cuse12]

My big concern with the SU offense is how we handle the way Pitt defends us.

They play man coverage and aggressively attack the holes in the OL with run blitzes.

UNC saw this approach on film and used it against us last week.

We had no answer for it last year and we had no answer for it last week.

If they are going to pull up the middle with blitzes, the last thing we should do is continually run the ball up the middle.

I hope we have a new and improved game plan for Pitt. This will provide great insight into what kind of an OC Sterlin is going to be. Hoping to see a willingness to try something different on Saturday.

And its not even making the playbook different, it is just using different plays that alleviate pressure off the QB, Line and RB. As most keep saying, why are we not focusing on getting the ball out of tommys hands ASAP. Dink and dunk the ball to the TE's, RBs, WRs and THEN hit them with the infamous dive run. I know we are being couch OC's right now, but come on... you gotta try SOMETHING different!

 

[kcsu]

I think no one realized or appreciated how much Eric's running ability helped the OL during those years. Granted the OL was better in 2018 of course, but naturally the defense had to account for the edge when we did our RPO's. The defense naturally would hesitate to cover the edge on the RPO's making it a more favorable outcome for the dive. Now the DL are just balls to the wall running downhill. The defense knows that if they send 5-6 guys all in one direction our line simply can not handle it. But, we continue to run the same dive play over and over.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

Dino is extremely stubborn.

 

[sufandu]

And its not even making the playbook different, it is just using different plays that alleviate pressure off the QB, Line and RB. As most keep saying, why are we not focusing on getting the ball out of tommys hands ASAP. Dink and dunk the ball to the TE's, RBs, WRs and THEN hit them with the infamous dive run. I know we are being couch OC's right now, but come on... you gotta try SOMETHING different!

We may be couch OC's but all we're asking is for what we saw when Lewis was the OC. This aint rocket surgery.

 

[SoBristol]

We may be couch OC's but all we're asking is for what we saw when Lewis was the OC. This aint rocket surgery.

Wondering what you believe was different with Dungey & Lewis as OC in 2016-17, versus Dungey & MIke Lynch as OC in 2018. We put up way better numbers and won 10 games in 2018. Granted, Lynch had a healthy Dungey for most of 2018 in his senior year but I would settle for that offense.

 

[sufandu]

Wondering what you believe was different with Dungey & Lewis as OC in 2016-17, versus Dungey & MIke Lynch as OC in 2018. We put up way better numbers and won 10 games in 2018. Granted, Lynch had a healthy Dungey for most of 2018 in his senior year but I would settle for that offense.

I think the oline came together better that year as evidenced by Moe Neal having the best numbers any RB has had under Dino, despite Dungey also running for 750. It's almost like we had that one year and forgot how we moved the ball before we could run it. We only had 10 more yards per game in 2018 than we did in 2017 and that was with Dungey mostly healthy all year. We just did a better job getting in the endzone. How much of that was a better oline and how much was Dungey? Beats me. A 10 ypg difference shouldn't equal a 13 ppg difference.

Last year was the first year we averaged less than 400 ypg under Dino.

 

[TheCusian]

Less Sean Lewis is the answer and more “system got figured out a bit”