Syracuse football defensive tackle Steven Clark's career put in jeopardy by blood clots

[CuseLegacy]

Well put. Too many people here are taking this decision personally because Steven's father posts here. Step back for a second and relax. This is a business at the end of the day and Syracuse University is going to look out for itself first regardless of a few specialists saying he can play.

And that is where the failure in the process comes in as it should be about protecting the student athlete, not a university using the NCAA rule to protect themselves.

 

[Scooch]

I think that is being looked into and maybe even a comparison to other ACC schools but I don't know the time frame for comparisons.

Cool. I'm a data guy, and to be honest, I'm hesitant to put much stock in some of the conversations here that spin off into what may be hyperbolic statements that suggest "SU disqualifies 100X more players than any other school!!! Burn it all to the ground!!!".

If people truly want to make this about process, rather than isolated cases, then they need to start providing data that proves there is a systemic problem. I'm not saying that there isn't, just that a foundation of proof should be developed.

 

[cuse10]

Our medical staff caused a player to develop blood clots. You know, something pretty serious. Then when he was cleared by specialists, they gave him the boot to cover their ass.

Life goes on, and the world keeps turning, though. Who cares about the credentials of our team doctor, and medical staff? Second opinions, screw 'em. That will certainly help the program, as we are finally getting back on track with a great HC.

Unreal.

Specialists can get things wrong. Their opinion simply that, an opinion. It is not fact. I know because I have a condition that requires me to see one and at one point I saw four different doctors to get consultation on how to treat my ailment. Two couldn't determine the best route to go, one gave me a medication that ended up with me needing a hospital stay and the other was incensed that I was forced to go to the hospital when I could have been given something to counteract the side effect of what happened.

 

[chakka3421]

Not minimal. There's more out there that you, or anyone outside of parents/players, are aware of. Right now, I'm the only one willing to put it out there. Totally understand the unwillingness of others to do the same.

Confirmed even by me long ago around post #400 that there is more going on outside of parental knowledge before you even shared.

Tucker is clearly incompetent because he is out of his league in terms of sports medicine on the P5 level (Coyle quote - amateur at best in the world of P5 sports). He needs to be terminated immediately or at least put him on official leave until his contract is over.

FB staff is furious over his incompetence and continuous misdiagnoses of medical related issues and not just the DQ process (or friggin lack of one) . FB staff are used to so much better and deservingly so should have the same or better here at SU.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Cool. I'm a data guy, and to be honest, I'm hesitant to put much stock in some of the conversations here that spin off into what may be hyperbolic statements that suggest "SU disqualifies 100X more players than any other school!!! Burn it all to the ground!!!".

If people truly want to make this about process, rather than isolated cases, then they need to start providing data that proves there is a systemic problem. I'm not saying that there isn't, just that a foundation of proof should be developed.

YOUR INSANE

 

[djorange1989]

Players are DQed every year at every school around the country. We even took one of those kids a few years back that got DQ'd at Nevada (Luke Arciniega i think). There's not a conspiracy here. It sucks Steven got DQ'd at SU but he can play elsewhere. We can take kids that have been DQ'd at other schools too. That doesn't mean our doctors are incompetent. It means they're looking out for Syracuse University, as unfortunate as that is in this case. That's all I'm saying.

There doesn't need to be a witchhunt over something like this. I don't care about Dr. Tucker and his credentials, or second opinions or the such. Steven is still playing football, and Syracuse football hasn't fallen off the face of the earth. Life goes on, the world keeps turning.

Steven should still be playing football and attending school at Syracuse, he should never have had to transfer in order to keep playing. Once again, it's easy to shrug your shoulders when you aren't the one having to make such a decision, a decision that he never should have faced . When a GP ignores the advice of 5 specialists, it shows he is stubborn and full of sh** and could give a damn about anything except covering up the incompetence of himself and the jackass who put the wrong brace on Clark's knee.

 

[bcubs9497]

Confirmed even by me long ago around post #400 that there is more going on outside of parental knowledge before you even shared.

Tucker is clearly incompetent because he is out of his league in terms of sports medicine on the P5 level (Coyle quote - amateur at best in the world of P5 sports). He needs to be terminated immediately or at least put him on official leave until his contract is over.

FB staff is furious over his incompetence and continuous misdiagnoses of medical related issues and not just the DQ process (or friggin lack of one) . FB staff are used to so much better and deservingly so should have the same or better here at SU.

Yep.

 

[RandomGuy]

The scary truth is if you knew the other story's of other players on the team and what has happened the last 2 years you would really be scared of what is going on with the guy making these decisions. You all have no idea

 

[007]

Cool. I'm a data guy, and to be honest, I'm hesitant to put much stock in some of the conversations here that spin off into what may be hyperbolic statements that suggest "SU disqualifies 100X more players than any other school!!! Burn it all to the ground!!!".

If people truly want to make this about process, rather than isolated cases, then they need to start providing data that proves there is a systemic problem. I'm not saying that there isn't, just that a foundation of proof should be developed.

I sincerely appreciate your point about data. What I am struggling with is why you think it is incumbent on the posters who question the process to "start providing data." Is it even possible for anyone outside of the medical staff or AD office to supple that data?

So in the absence of data that no one here can supply, we shouldn't question the process? The information we do have comes from first hand experience with the process. Obviously, that's not "data" and it is subjective to an unknown degree. But, if even a portion of what is being reported is true, I don't find it unreasonable to question the process, even if it has only impacted a handful of players.

 

[Consigliere]

I haven't followed this thread in depth, so I'm not truly abreast with the particulars, precise process, etc., other than the situation is quite unfortunate. That stated, some of the responses here are interesting. Maybe, as bnoro has mentioned, some of the responses are influenced by the subject's parent posting here, again, maybe. I don't recall this much emotion about SU's process when other players were DQ'ed. I don't recall the outcry for AJ Long (a starting QB for us back in the fall of '14) when he was dq'ed and he went on to play at another school.

Medical opinions can vary, even significantly at times. I spent a number of years in the insurance industry and often observed/read many detailed narrative type reports & evaluations from medical doctors that had quite different assessments of the individual subject. This could range from permanent partial/full type impairments by one physician to none/nominal or slight by another MD. Opinions, even from qualified individuals, can and often do vary.

I think there is a lot less controversy when you are talking about CTE where the science is still evolving vs. blood clots and the effects of medication where the science is fairly stable, supported by multiple experts and seemingly ignored. We all appreciate bcubs being a part of our community and we have certainly learned a lot about the process from him but this would have been an outrage regardless. Particularly when DiFino conferred with the Rochester specialist and softened his stance.

 

[illi3]

Confirmed even by me long ago around post #400 that there is more going on outside of parental knowledge before you even shared.

Tucker is clearly incompetent because he is out of his league in terms of sports medicine on the P5 level (Coyle quote - amateur at best in the world of P5 sports). He needs to be terminated immediately or at least put him on official leave until his contract is over.

FB staff is furious over his incompetence and continuous misdiagnoses of medical related issues and not just the DQ process (or friggin lack of one) . FB staff are used to so much better and deservingly so should have the same or better here at SU.

Here is the issue as I see it. You can't terminate him for doing exactly what you've hired him to do. He was hired to be the be all end all decision maker, and thats what he is. I know Cubs mentioned 6 on 1 earlier. Unfortunately the 1 is the only vote that matters.
Now this is no way means I agree with him holding the position, his handling of the matter, or his final decision with Steven. Quite the opposite, really. But those expecting a firing are probably holding their breath for quite a while longer.

 

[SUFan44]

Not at all. I'm not defending our medical staff.

It absolutely sucks that Steven can't continue playing at SU. But I don't see why people keep drumming up hysteria. Steven could be cleared by 200000 specialists, but Syracuse has to do what's best for the program, unfortunately. So Steven is allowed to transfer and keep playing.

If his father wasn't so vocal about it no one here would even be questioning anything.

That's not the point, either.

Syracuse University doctors should do what is best for the program on a case by case basis. I'm not saying they should clear everyone who has a medical issue. But I also don't think that DQ'ing players left and right is the answer, either.

There needs to be a better protocol in place. And that need has been there for a number of years. This should not be an autocracy, with one person who is on an extreme side of things with final authoritarian say. The structure needs to have a common sense element, too.

If Steven (or Joe, or Larry, or Bill) is healthy and allowed to play football at any school in America, why should Syracuse be drastically different? Why have we had so many of these cases (AJ Long, Kyle Knapp, Tyler Marona, Adam Harris, etc.), with some going on to play elsewhere? Not saying some of these aren't extremely valid. Some probably were. But I can imagine that some were similar to Steven Clark's situation.

You bring up Arcienega - fine. Then if he was cleared to play here with stipulations saying he couldn't get one more concussion, why is someone that has been cleared by numerous medical professionals but not cleared by one, biased observer, not given that opportunity with stipulations?

There just seems to be no rhyme or reason in a lot of these instances. And that is what the issue is.

 

[Scooch]

If Steven (or Joe, or Larry, or Bill) is healthy and allowed to play football at any school in America, why should Syracuse be drastically different?

Not for nothing, but schools have varying levels of tolerance for all sorts of things. Some schools have stricter admissions standards, some have less tolerance for poor off-the-field behavior, some require better academic performance to stay eligible, etc. SU may have a stricter policy for DQs because they feel it is in the best interest of the long-term health of the student. And they might feel other schools are far too permissive.

I'll caveat for the 100th time, I'm not saying that to suggest this particular situation was handled well. But just to add some context to blanket statements.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Not for nothing, but schools have varying levels of tolerance for all sorts of things. Some schools have stricter admissions standards, some have less tolerance for poor off-the-field behavior, some require better academic performance to stay eligible, etc. SU may have a stricter policy for DQs because they feel it is in the best interest of the long-term health of the student. And they might feel other schools are far too permissive.

I'll caveat for the 100th time, I'm not saying that to suggest this particular situation was handled well. But just to add some context to blanket statements.

Is there a policy? Or is the determination for a dq just up to whoever is the team physician?

 

[chakka3421]

Here is the issue as I see it. You can't terminate him for doing exactly what you've hired him to do. He was hired to be the be all end all decision maker, and thats what he is. I know Cubs mentioned 6 on 1 earlier. Unfortunately the 1 is the only vote that matters.
Now this is no way means I agree with him holding the position, his handling of the matter, or his final decision with Steven. Quite the opposite, really. But those expecting a firing are probably holding their breath for quite a while longer.

This is not about DQ only, it's about the whole Med program and routine processes. Hopefully I can clarify.

ALL of YOU (except parents) are not READING between the lines. Tucker is misdiagnosing and subsequently mistreating injuries because he is UNQUALIFIED to head up a P5 sports med program. He is NOT utilizing specialists to diagnose and treat specific injuries and shooting from the hip in diagnosis and treatment remedies. He is not keeping up with modern sports medicine practices. He is simply NOT qualified!

Some potential recruits have also used this to turn us down because of our amateur at best Med program (as Coyle called it). Competitive coaching programs have found this out and are actively using Tucker against us in recruiting battles. Tucker has become a huge LIABILITY. If he had the BEST interests of SU sports at heart - he should RESIGN immediately himself.

FB staff is beyond furious with the Med program and process here - they prefer S&C coaches to treat minor injuries before including Med staff and only use them as a last resort - SCARY!

 

[SUfanNC]

Well put. Too many people here are taking this decision personally because Steven's father posts here. Step back for a second and relax. This is a business at the end of the day and Syracuse University is going to look out for itself first regardless of a few specialists saying he can play.

You can't lump everyone together to make it seem everyone is in on one side or the other.

It is in Syracuse interest to look out for the school as well as the kids that sign up to play for them. Something is off here. Where it's the Dr. or the University. I get why they wouldn't allow Steven back but it's more about not getting to that point. Every situation is different and needs to be treated as such

The assessments seem to be an issue

 

[Toga]

This is not about DQ only, it's about the whole Med program and routine processes. Hopefully I can clarify.

ALL of YOU (except parents) are not READING between the lines. Tucker is misdiagnosing and subsequently mistreating injuries because he is UNQUALIFIED to head up a P5 sports med program. He is NOT utilizing specialists to diagnose and treat specific injuries and shooting from the hip in diagnosis and treatment remedies. He is not keeping up with modern sports medicine practices. He is simply NOT qualified!

Some potential recruits have also used this to turn us down because of our amateur at best Med program (as Coyle called it). Competitive coaching programs have found this out and are actively using Tucker against us in recruiting battles. Tucker has become a huge LIABILITY. If he had the BEST interests of SU sports at heart - he should RESIGN immediately himself.

FB staff is beyond furious with the Med program and process here - they prefer S&C coaches to treat minor injuries before including Med staff and only use them as a last resort - SCARY!

Hopefully no player will allow themselves to be seen by Tucker for injury large or small. S&C coaches or specialists in the problem area only. I imagine that statement would prove the end of the Reign of Incompetence.

 

[bcubs9497]

This is not about DQ only, it's about the whole Med program and routine processes. Hopefully I can clarify.

ALL of YOU (except parents) are not READING between the lines. Tucker is misdiagnosing and subsequently mistreating injuries because he is UNQUALIFIED to head up a P5 sports med program. He is NOT utilizing specialists to diagnose and treat specific injuries and shooting from the hip in diagnosis and treatment remedies. He is not keeping up with modern sports medicine practices. He is simply NOT qualified!

Some potential recruits have also used this to turn us down because of our amateur at best Med program (as Coyle called it). Competitive coaching programs have found this out and are actively using Tucker against us in recruiting battles. Tucker has become a huge LIABILITY. If he had the BEST interests of SU sports at heart - he should RESIGN immediately himself.

FB staff is beyond furious with the Med program and process here - they prefer S&C coaches to treat minor injuries before including Med staff and only use them as a last resort - SCARY!

That's true.

 

[MadNY3]

All,

Quick time out and congratulations...this issue just became the fourth most-talked about
off-the-field issue in board history surpassing "Barry Baker eligibility/scholarship."

Chad Elliott eligibility...watch out.

 

[TheCusian]

And that is where the failure in the process comes in as it should be about protecting the student athlete, not a university using the NCAA rule to protect themselves.

This. X 1000

 

[Scooch]

For what it's worth, the next time there's a "negative" article in the local newspaper and people scream about how damaging it is to the fan base and the program I hope people remember this thread.

 

[shandeezy7]

For what it's worth, the next time there's a "negative" article in the local newspaper and people scream about how damaging it is to the fan base and the program I hope people remember this thread.

So is the responsibility on fans to not talk about negative things or is the responsibility on the university to correct these negative issues before they ever see light in public?

 

[Scooch]

So is the responsibility on fans to not talk about negative things or is the responsibility on the university to correct these negative issues before they ever see light in public?

It's the responsibility of the local newspaper to only write love letters.

 

[sufandu]

I understand that. But in this case it's an obvious cover your ass by SU. It happens. He was allowed to transfer, so it's not like he's being held hostage.

I'm sure Tucker understands the second opinions but its made in the best interest of the school, not the athlete IN THIS CASE.

And there lies the issue. People on here like me care that the process is often not in the best interest of the athlete when that is what it was supposed to be intended for. Apparently, that part of it doesn't bother you that much. It's not just this case, there are others.

 

[JSOrange97]

For what it's worth, the next time there's a "negative" article in the local newspaper and people scream about how damaging it is to the fan base and the program I hope people remember this thread.

This is an issue that SU has control over and never should have reached this point. Yes, it is negative, but if the process is that broken, then they bear responsibility for not reconciling the situation. It is SU's own darn fault.