Syracuse football projected depth chart (defense): who will seize 7 starting jobs on defense?

[money3189]

I'm still learning about the 335 but it seems like, with undersized personnel in the front 6, the stunting and unpredictability might help us avoid blowouts against speed/RPO teams like Maryland (63 pts) and LV (56 pts). The concern for me is power running teams like BC (58 pts and 500 yards rushing). We ran the 4-3 the last two years, but losing Slayton was obviously a big deal. Our sack totals went down significantly (30 in 2019 versus 43 in 2018) and opponent's rushing average went from 4.3 (162 yards per game) to 4.9 (201 yards per game).

I'm optimistic about the 335, but we're even smaller up front. We lose Ruff, and we don't have anyone close to Slayton's ability or size. That could put a lot of pressure on our LB's and safeties again ... which hurt us this past year. So my hope is we can bring in more size for the DL interior.

Legitimate concerns. A lot of it depends on how well we pick up the scheme. I think we have guys up front that will be bigger athletic bodies. The good thing is that we aren't relying on guys to bulk up like Slayton and be gap stuffers. LB's and DB's will be relied on to attack and fill gaps vs power run teams.

 

[PhatOrange]

Man those guys are light for 3-4 defensive ends. 5 techs are ideally bigger. Coleman and Robinson are explosive. They could probably get away with playing there but their strengths would be hindered in this new scheme. DE's primary job is not to rush up the field, but to tie up blockers so the linebackers and safeties can fill the gaps and make tackles. They wouldnt be free to just come off the edge as much.

If that's too light then we're screwed.

when the 335 was first proposed the consensus was that it would fit our current personnel and was preferred in part because it's so hard to recruit DTs. So now we're saying it doesn't fit our personnel and we'll also need to essentially recruit even more bigger kids ? That means we're going to need a couple of 300 pound DTs in the middle, flanked by 280 pound guys on the ends and their 275 pound backups? I don't see that happening ever. We're going to have to make it work with 250-260 lb ends.

Teams pass in this league, so what are the advantages to getting away from explosive edge rushers who get after the QB? We know 3 man rushes don't work. I'm not sure how much we want our ends tying up blockers instead of getting to the QBs. Blitzing LBs can only be part of it. We have a lot of success recruiting explosive ends because they're medium sized guys and there are alot of them.

I personally think we'll mix it up so much between 4-3, 335, and 5-2-4 that we won't really won't have a base D dependent on a certain sized player. You have to be flexible enough to play to your strengths and roster and to your ability to recruit a certain type of player.

 

[money3189]

If that's too light then we're screwed.

when the 335 was first proposed the consensus was that it would fit our current personnel and was preferred in part because it's so hard to recruit DTs. So now we're saying it doesn't fit our personnel and we'll also need to essentially recruit even more bigger kids ? That means we're going to need a couple of 300 pound DTs in the middle, flanked by 280 pound guys on the ends and their 275 pound backups? I don't see that happening ever. We're going to have to make it work with 250-260 lb ends.

Teams pass in this league, so what are the advantages to getting away from explosive edge rushers who get after the QB? We know 3 man rushes don't work. I'm not sure how much we want our ends tying up blockers instead of getting to the QBs. Blitzing LBs can only be part of it. We have a lot of success recruiting explosive ends because they're medium sized guys and there are alot of them.

I personally think we'll mix it up so much between 4-3, 335, and 5-2-4 that we won't really won't have a base D dependent on a certain sized player. You have to be flexible enough to play to your strengths and roster and to your ability to recruit a certain type of player.

Not sure what roster you are looking at. Most of our DE's are freshmans that are already at 250-260. We already recuited the guys we want lol. Not sure why you think its hard for them to add another 10 pounds of muscle in 4 years. When I say bigger. Im not saying 300 pounds. Im saying Black size (270)- 280. That's what the 3-5 is. That's why I keep mentioning the different techniques the DE's will be in. When I say shade, I'm saying they will be shaded off a particular offensive line. That creates 4,5,6 man fronts when you walk up LB's. This scheme is very multiple.

LB's will provide pass rush too. Guys like Richards Cantin Linton and Kinsler are your new Coleman and Robinson. You can have 4,5,6, man pressures and bring a 7th guy too (Star Safety)

 

[PhatOrange]

Not sure what roster you are looking at. Most of our DE's are freshmans that are already at 250-260. We already recuited the guys we want lol. Not sure why you think its hard for them to add another 10 pounds of muscle in 4 years. When I say bigger. Im not saying 300 pounds. Im saying Black size (270)- 280. That's what the 3-5 is. That's why I keep mentioning the different techniques the DE's will be in. When I say shade, I'm saying they will be shaded off a particular offensive line. That creates 4,5,6 man fronts when you walk up LB's. This scheme is very multiple.

LB's will provide pass rush too. Guys like Richards Cantin Linton and Kinsler are your new Coleman and Robinson. You can have 4,5,6, man pressures and bring a 7th guy too (Star Safety)

It's the notion that Robinson and Coleman were to small. Having a 3 deep of 270/80lb kids isn't something we've ever had and then you need a 3 deep of 300lb NT. Again the preface here is that the 335 fits our roster and recruiting ability better.

Here's the current roster.

Curtis Harper	300​	R-So.
McKinley Williams	282​	Sr.
Josh Black	270​	R-Jr.
Caleb Okechukwu	261​	R-Fr.
Kingsley Jonathan	255​	Jr.
Joe Rondi	255​	Fr.
Jason Muñoz	255​	Fr.
Zach Morton	251​	R-So.
Drew Tuazama	250​	Fr.
Cooper Dawson	237​	Fr.
Tyrell Richards	230​	R-So.
Steve Linton	215​	Fr.
Ishmael Goulbourne	196​	Fr.

Rondi and Munoz were recruited to play inside. Do they make up the 4 deep with Bear and Harper? If not how effective will the be on the oustide ? If they are moved to DE then what do we do at NT?

KJ is going to play at whatever he is. Lets say 260. Same with Tau unless he gains another 10/15. He might go 260 right now.

Dawson another 30
Richards OLB ?
Kinsler/Linton/Goulbourne OLB ?

I'm not arguing with you it just seems if we need to get bigger in the front 3 (2deep) We're back to recruiting 230lb ends and trying to put 40 pounds of them. That seems like a tall order.

 

[money3189]

It's the notion that Robinson and Coleman were to small. Having a 3 deep of 270/80lb kids isn't something we've ever had and then you need a 3 deep of 300lb NT. Again the preface here is that the 335 fits our roster and recruiting ability better.

Here's the current roster.

Curtis Harper	300​	R-So.
McKinley Williams	282​	Sr.
Josh Black	270​	R-Jr.
Caleb Okechukwu	261​	R-Fr.
Kingsley Jonathan	255​	Jr.
Joe Rondi	255​	Fr.
Jason Muñoz	255​	Fr.
Zach Morton	251​	R-So.
Drew Tuazama	250​	Fr.
Cooper Dawson	237​	Fr.
Tyrell Richards	230​	R-So.
Steve Linton	215​	Fr.
Ishmael Goulbourne	196​	Fr.

Rondi and Munoz were recruited to play inside. Do they make up the 4 deep with Bear and Harper? If not how effective will the be on the oustide ? If they are moved to DE then what do we do at NT?

KJ is going to play at whatever he is. Lets say 260. Same with Tau unless he gains another 10/15. He might go 260 right now.

Dawson another 30
Richards OLB ?
Kinsler/Linton/Goulbourne OLB ?

I'm not arguing with you it just seems if we need to get bigger in the front 3 (2deep) We're back to recruiting 230lb ends and trying to put 40 pounds of them. That seems like a tall order.

Coleman and Robinson are not 5 techs. They are rush ends. Josh Black is ideal for a 3-4 DE. He's 270-275.

Bear Harper and Elmore are DT's IMO. There will be so much shading that you basically have to call them DT's. They won't stay in a O tech. When we move our OLB's up on the LOS it becomes a 4 front right?. You can't have a kid like Wallace up on the LOS with a 250 pd 3 tech too often. Teams will gash us.

Rondi and Munoz I see them as DE's too but can potentially play DT

We already know KJ is a starter at DE. His experience alone will exceed what he lacks in weight. Tuazama is tailor made. Tall frame with the ability to add muscle to. He will play this year.

80% of the Ends are already where we want them at. That's 250-260 pounds with the ability to add 10-15 pounds of muscle. Not sure where you getting the 40 pounds from? Why do we have to do that? Dawson is the only undersized DE on the roster but he has the frame to add weight to. He's probably already 250.

Right, Richards Kinsler Linton Goulboune OLB's are not 5 tech DE's. These are your versatile edge defenders that can play off or on the ball. They are like Von Miller, Demarcus Ware, Khalil Mack Tamba Ali

 

[PhatOrange]

Coleman and Robinson are not 5 techs. They are rush ends. Josh Black is ideal for a 3-4 DE. He's 270-275.

Bear Harper and Elmore are DT's IMO. There will be so much shading that you basically have to call them DT's. They won't stay in a O tech. When we move our OLB's up on the LOS it becomes a 4 front right?. You can't have a kid like Wallace up on the LOS with a 250 pd 3 tech too often. Teams will gash us.

Rondi and Munoz I see them as DE's too but can potentially play DT

We already know KJ is a starter at DE. His experience alone will exceed what he lacks in weight. Tuazama is tailor made. Tall frame with the ability to add muscle to. He will play this year.

80% of the Ends are already where we want them at. That's 250-260 pounds with the ability to add 10-15 pounds of muscle. Not sure where you getting the 40 pounds from? Why do we have to do that? Dawson is the only undersized DE on the roster but he has the frame to add weight to. He's probably already 250.

Right, Richards Kinsler Linton Goulboune OLB's are not 5 tech DE's. These are your versatile edge defenders that can play off or on the ball. They are like Von Miller, Demarcus Ware, Khalil Mack Tamba Ali

I’m getting that weight because they’re coming in at 240. +40 = 280. These kids we’re able to recruit have already had to put on a lot of weight.

what about the future though? Again playing big in the front 3 means we have to recruit that way and it will be difficult. We essentially went from having to recruit 2 DTs to three.

 

[kmart128]

I’m getting that weight because they’re coming in at 240. +40 = 280. These kids we’re able to recruit have already had to put on a lot of weight.

what about the future though? Again playing big in the front 3 means we have to recruit that way and it will be difficult. We essentially went from having to recruit 2 DTs to three.

Not really. If you have an undersized DT putting them in at 3-4 DE could help maximize their potential. So instead of having to start 2 300 poumd DTs... you only need to start 1 DT and put guys 260-280 in at the 5 tech. Last year we definitely had undersized DTs... which i think led Babers to the 3-5. Allows a team to be better in stopping the run despite having an undersized defense. Will we have to change recuiting... yes. But if you look at our current defense we have lots of guys who dont need to add to much weight and our starters right now seem perfect for the system

 

[orangepassion]

I have a feeling Tony White and Tyrell Richards will love each other. Cantin-Arku, too. They can both be perfect flex LB/DE's in this Defense.
I'm greatly looking forward to seeing the new 2-deep. Don't believe dates for Spring Practice have been announced.

 

[money3189]

I’m getting that weight because they’re coming in at 240. +40 = 280. These kids we’re able to recruit have already had to put on a lot of weight.

what about the future though? Again playing big in the front 3 means we have to recruit that way and it will be difficult. We essentially went from having to recruit 2 DTs to three.

Phat The only DE that came in at 240 is Dawson. Its the opposite what you think. They dont need to gain 40 pounds. Just 15-20. You dont think 2019 class show that we already recruited that way? Show me P5 teams that play with 250 pound 5 tech DE's. They arent out there.

 

[Trueblue25]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Tua, Munoz, Caleb and Rondi are each already over 265 lbs with some to go before game conditioning in spring/summer.

The kids dont sit around when the season ends.

 

[blizz]

I’m getting that weight because they’re coming in at 240. +40 = 280. These kids we’re able to recruit have already had to put on a lot of weight.

what about the future though? Again playing big in the front 3 means we have to recruit that way and it will be difficult. We essentially went from having to recruit 2 DTs to three.

The new scheme is a better fit for us because we have taken the approach in recruiting of finding guys who have the frame and movement to play a few different positions in the front but where they ultimately land depends on how much good weight they can add in a few years. If a fast guy puts on a lot of good weight that's a win because you can slide him inside where his speed becomes an even bigger advantage.

money3189 is just talking about the 5-tech in the 3-3-5. The way I would think of it is this is the equivalent of the 3-tech in a 4 man front. And that's exactly what we're talking about. Black, the existing 3-tech, is ideally suited to play this role because he's essentially a tweener 3-tech/5-tech in a 4-3. He's strong enough to win with power on the outside C gap against a tackle but not quite fast enough to win with speed or consistently hold edge responsibilities. And he's fast enough to win in the B gap against guards but not quite strong enough to consistently anchor and hold his gap against stronger guards or guard-tackle doubles. Sliding him over a half man, which is what's going to happen in the 3-3-5 puts him in the best position to use his skill set.

 

[money3189]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Tua, Munoz, Caleb and Rondi are each already over 265 lbs with some to go before game conditioning in spring/summer.

The kids dont sit around when the season ends.

The new scheme is a better fit for us because we have taken the approach in recruiting of finding guys who have the frame and movement to play a few different positions in the front but where they ultimately land depends on how much good weight they can add in a few years. If a fast guy puts on a lot of good weight that's a win because you can slide him inside where his speed becomes an even bigger advantage.

money3189 is just talking about the 5-tech in the 3-3-5. The way I would think of it is this is the equivalent of the 3-tech in a 4 man front. And that's exactly what we're talking about. Black, the existing 3-tech, is ideally suited to play this role because he's essentially a tweener 3-tech/5-tech in a 4-3. He's strong enough to win with power on the outside C gap against a tackle but not quite fast enough to win with speed or consistently hold edge responsibilities. And he's fast enough to win in the B gap against guards but not quite strong enough to consistently anchor and hold his gap against stronger guards or guard-tackle doubles. Sliding him over a half man, which is what's going to happen in the 3-3-5 puts him in the best position to use his skill set.

Exactly. relying on a 255 pound rush end to take on guards and tackles is not ideal. They will make plays at times but would essential wear out trying to anchor or stunt between those big fellas.

 

[PhatOrange]

Phat The only DE that came in at 240 is Dawson. Its the opposite what you think. They dont need to gain 40 pounds. Just 15-20. You dont think 2019 class show that we already recruited that way? Show me P5 teams that play with 250 pound 5 tech DE's. They arent out there.

that's my point. it's going to be hard for us to recruit enough guys that go 280+ across the front 3.

 

[money3189]

that's my point. it's going to be hard for us to recruit enough guys that go 280+ across the front 3.

So you don't think we can recruit guys that are an athletic 6'3 to 6'5 255 pounds? That's exactly what we have been doing. Most of our freshman's are already that size and that's without a full year of S&C

 

[721Comstock]

that's my point. it's going to be hard for us to recruit enough guys that go 280+ across the front 3.

You mean, as opposed to now?

because we've been killing it in that regard for years.

 

[PhatOrange]

You mean, as opposed to now?

because we've been killing it in that regard for years.

Yes exactly. even harder now if we need a 2 deep of 280 plus. Before we need 6 and now we need 9.

 

[PhatOrange]

So you don't think we can recruit guys that are an athletic 6'3 to 6'5 255 pounds? That's exactly what we have been doing. Most of our freshman's are already that size and that's without a full year of S&C

Most is not true. Most come in at 230. Coleman 230, Berry 230, Bear 250, Jonathan 220, Morton 225, Oke 250, Linton 210, Dawson 240, Tua 250, Goul 210, Kinsler 215. The common denominator here is gaining about 30 lbs just to get to 260/270/280.

To answer you’re question I think it’s going for be very hard to recruit 6'3 to 6'5 255 pounds as a starting point. If it wasn’t we’d already be doing it. The guys in that range like Munoz, Tau and Rondi were slated for inside. If we can get guys like that then no problem but two of them were sort of lucky gets.

 

[721Comstock]

Yes exactly. even harder now if we need a 2 deep of 280 plus. Before we need 6 and now we need 9.

I believe you are mistaken.

Pretty sure it’s the opposite, going from 4 down linemen to 3.

NONE of the teams best known for running the 3-3-5 have 3 massive DL’s up front.

In fact, the whole point of it, is to still be effective in spite of NOT having huge DL players.
Speed, movement, and confusion are there to make up for lack of sheer size.

 

[money3189]

The new scheme is a better fit for us because we have taken the approach in recruiting of finding guys who have the frame and movement to play a few different positions in the front but where they ultimately land depends on how much good weight they can add in a few years. If a fast guy puts on a lot of good weight that's a win because you can slide him inside where his speed becomes an even bigger advantage.

money3189 is just talking about the 5-tech in the 3-3-5. The way I would think of it is this is the equivalent of the 3-tech in a 4 man front. And that's exactly what we're talking about. Black, the existing 3-tech, is ideally suited to play this role because he's essentially a tweener 3-tech/5-tech in a 4-3. He's strong enough to win with power on the outside C gap against a tackle but not quite fast enough to win with speed or consistently hold edge responsibilities. And he's fast enough to win in the B gap against guards but not quite strong enough to consistently anchor and hold his gap against stronger guards or guard-tackle doubles. Sliding him over a half man, which is what's going to happen in the 3-3-5 puts him in the best position to use his skill set.

Good explanation. We have a bunch of Josh Black type bodies on the roster now. Guys that can add functional weight to still be quick but able to anchor their gaps. Even when they are stunting the Ends are gonna have to split double teams of guard tackles and centers. We need guys that are versatile enough to do all that. Having a front 3 of 240 pound guys won’t cut it. That will work on pass rush situations. That’s it.

 

[smartman]

I'm liking this. It allows us to go three deep in the middle with Williams, Harper, and Elmore (please no more full time TE/H-Back). Jonathan, Black, and Tuaz likely the established DE rotation, but wonder who else steps up. I like Jones, Richards (please get him on the field!), Kpogba, Wallace, and Cantin-Arku all to contribute at LB. Not sure who starts alongside Meli at CB although Trill seems a popular choice (kinda like him able to roam as a playmaker though). Either way, Cisco, Trill, Stritz, Coley, and maybe Nunn get the majority of the snaps. I'm hoping one of the RF step up and hoping Clarke finally gets some play. We seem deeper at safety than DB.

Another year brings new hope and excitement. I can't wait for Spring Ball to start sorting this out.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Reading more on the defense, Trill is going to thrive in this scheme if he's the Aztec/Otto/Orange player. Looks tailored made for that spot and this defense

 

[money3189]

Reading more on the defense, Trill is going to thrive in this scheme if he's the Aztec/Otto/Orange player. Looks tailored made for that spot and this defense

It really is. I hope other guys can step up at corner so Trill can go there. Its a fun position to play. Hard for teams to account for that position because you can put him in different spots.

 

[syrBossHogg]

It really is. I hope other guys can step up at corner so Trill can go there. Its a fun position to play. Hard for teams to account for that position because you can put him in different spots.

Yeah the key will be if someone can step up and handle the CB2 spot, allow us to play Trill in the middle of the defense and focus on taking away the Bubble screens/RPO plays

 

[tep624]

I understand the concern at DT.

Aztecs two-deep football roster takes shape with 2019 opener a week away

Three weeks have elapsed since the San Diego State football team opened fall camp.Ready or not, it’s time for SDSU to shift into game-week mode in preparation for its Aug. 31 opener against W…

www.google.com

However looking at SDSU’s 2 deep going into the 2019 season, size wise it looks a lot like ours.

 

[Trueblue25]

I understand the concern at DT.

Aztecs two-deep football roster takes shape with 2019 opener a week away

Three weeks have elapsed since the San Diego State football team opened fall camp.Ready or not, it’s time for SDSU to shift into game-week mode in preparation for its Aug. 31 opener against W…

www.google.com

However looking at SDSU’s 2 deep going into the 2019 season, size wise it looks a lot like ours.

Devils adv.
SDSU’s not playing an ACC schedule.