Syracuse football QB Eric Dungey is healthy for spring practice

[SUFaninNJ]

As a Family Practice physician, I have been reading this and all the Eric Dungey related threads with great interest due to the multifaceted views on this complex issue. I am finally chiming in to echo a few points and offer my own "take".
First of all, and maybe most importantly, I know Dr. Tucker. Although we have not conversed in quite some time, I have tremendous respect for him as a physician and a human being. If he told me that my son or daughter should not play their sport of choice, I would listen to his counsel. BUT...listening and heeding are two different things. If my child WANTED to continue to pursue the sport they love, I would absolutely seek an expert's opinion. I would do my due diligence and hopefully with the University's blessing and/or guidance, find an appropriate expert to consult. If that expert gave me a cogent argument as to why my child should or should not further pursue their passion, then that would be it. Getting more opinions until I found the one that I or my child "liked" would be counterproductive and maybe dangerous. As IthacaMatt pointed out, there are different levels of risk tolerance or aversion, so you have to accept the BEST answer you can get from the BEST expert you can find.
The interesting question orangehomer raises is: Who is making that decision? They should absolutely have the best qualified opinion at their disposal, but does that mean they follow the expert's opinion, or their own legal advisors' opinion(s)? If there is a disagreement, is there still a path to play, and how would that work? The nuances of a potential negotiation (towards a "release" from liability) between the school and the player and his or her family would be so difficult to flesh out in some sort of legal document, that it likely wouldn't hold up in court (criminal maybe, but not civil...IthacaMatt can correct me on this as he is the expert here).
Finally, at least for the moment anyway, the very diagnosis of concussions and their impact are still so nebulous yet so potentially devastating, I don't think one can develop an iron clad, everyone is happy, algorithm. To be asked, "If Eric Dungey takes one more hit to the head, could it have a negative impact on his health and well being in the future?" is an important question to try and give an appropriate response. But it is for him as an individual while facing the same risk for injury, but not necessarily consequence, as everyone else. Every player is one hit to the head, neck, back, knee, etc., from having their game, season, and/or career over, and maybe even their life, or at least what was to be their hoped-for quality of life. So how do we do right by Eric and every other member of the team?
Like I said, I find this whole discussion fascinating and vexing at the same time. I love SU sports, but fear for the players and their families, too. I am so happy to have people like bcubs9497 and bambrewer provide their insights, because it is a glimpse into a world I don't know. But I hope that like all true fans, at the end of the day, we recognize these are kids transitioning to be young men. They entertain us, and we are appreciative. But, they are people with lives to be lived, someday, away from SU and away from sports. They are not gladiators. They deserve to have their futures protected. But they, along with their families, also deserve a voice in this process. I hope this is ultimately what happens, if not now, then sometime soon.
Thanks for reading my ramblings...

You need to post more, David. Thanks for the insight.

 

[Rocco]

As a Family Practice physician, I have been reading this and all the Eric Dungey related threads with great interest due to the multifaceted views on this complex issue. I am finally chiming in to echo a few points and offer my own "take".
First of all, and maybe most importantly, I know Dr. Tucker. Although we have not conversed in quite some time, I have tremendous respect for him as a physician and a human being. If he told me that my son or daughter should not play their sport of choice, I would listen to his counsel. BUT...listening and heeding are two different things. If my child WANTED to continue to pursue the sport they love, I would absolutely seek an expert's opinion. I would do my due diligence and hopefully with the University's blessing and/or guidance, find an appropriate expert to consult. If that expert gave me a cogent argument as to why my child should or should not further pursue their passion, then that would be it. Getting more opinions until I found the one that I or my child "liked" would be counterproductive and maybe dangerous. As IthacaMatt pointed out, there are different levels of risk tolerance or aversion, so you have to accept the BEST answer you can get from the BEST expert you can find.
The interesting question orangehomer raises is: Who is making that decision? They should absolutely have the best qualified opinion at their disposal, but does that mean they follow the expert's opinion, or their own legal advisors' opinion(s)? If there is a disagreement, is there still a path to play, and how would that work? The nuances of a potential negotiation (towards a "release" from liability) between the school and the player and his or her family would be so difficult to flesh out in some sort of legal document, that it likely wouldn't hold up in court (criminal maybe, but not civil...IthacaMatt can correct me on this as he is the expert here).
Finally, at least for the moment anyway, the very diagnosis of concussions and their impact are still so nebulous yet so potentially devastating, I don't think one can develop an iron clad, everyone is happy, algorithm. To be asked, "If Eric Dungey takes one more hit to the head, could it have a negative impact on his health and well being in the future?" is an important question to try and give an appropriate response. But it is for him as an individual while facing the same risk for injury, but not necessarily consequence, as everyone else. Every player is one hit to the head, neck, back, knee, etc., from having their game, season, and/or career over, and maybe even their life, or at least what was to be their hoped-for quality of life. So how do we do right by Eric and every other member of the team?
Like I said, I find this whole discussion fascinating and vexing at the same time. I love SU sports, but fear for the players and their families, too. I am so happy to have people like bcubs9497 and bambrewer provide their insights, because it is a glimpse into a world I don't know. But I hope that like all true fans, at the end of the day, we recognize these are kids transitioning to be young men. They entertain us, and we are appreciative. But, they are people with lives to be lived, someday, away from SU and away from sports. They are not gladiators. They deserve to have their futures protected. But they, along with their families, also deserve a voice in this process. I hope this is ultimately what happens, if not now, then sometime soon.
Thanks for reading my ramblings...

Excellent post. You sum it all up perfectly in my eyes.

As for Dungey, old dogs don't learn new tricks. The staff can try as hard as they can to protect the kid, but his competitive spirit will undoubtedly put him in a precarious position again next year. He needs to learn to throw it away or just go down. His career is on the line.

 

[Ish88888]

Excellent post. You sum it all up perfectly in my eyes.

As for Dungey, old dogs don't learn new tricks. The staff can try as hard as they can to protect the kid, but his competitive spirit will undoubtedly put him in a precarious position again next year. He needs to learn to throw it away or just go down. His career is on the line.

I agree, he needs to get smarter. That said, some guys have a knack for taking hits and avoiding the full weight and impact of hits. Its one of those intangible skills for a qb. I adore ED and pray for his health, he needs to catch a few breaks. Qbs take hits in college.

 

[dooey139]

Dungey was throwing some weight around in the Twitter video of S&C, working on the neck muscles?

 

[Deano]

Excellent post. You sum it all up perfectly in my eyes.

As for Dungey, old dogs don't learn new tricks. The staff can try as hard as they can to protect the kid, but his competitive spirit will undoubtedly put him in a precarious position again next year. He needs to learn to throw it away or just go down. His career is on the line.

He needs to watch film of Jalen Hurts. He knows when to get out of bounds or get down.

 

[kcsu]

I expect the staff to give Culpeper a ton of reps this spring.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Uni Watch: New helmet design hopes to improve safety

 

[bcubs9497]

Dungey was throwing some weight around in the Twitter video of S&C, working on the neck muscles?

Shoulder shrugs. Works shoulders, and neck.

 

[Ish88888]

He needs to watch film of Jalen Hurts. He knows when to get out of bounds or get down.

Cant compare jalen hurts to ED. Hurts can take the hits, he is a lb playing qb at 6'4", 240.

 

[RMH44]

Cant compare jalen hurts to ED. Hurts can take the hits, he is a lb playing qb at 6'4", 240.

Hurts is 6'2" 209 and Dungey played at 6'3" 207 last season.

I bet Dungey plays at least 215 next season.

 

[Rocco]

Hurts is 6'2" 209 and Dungey played at 6'3" 207 last season.

I bet Dungey plays at least 215 next season.

I think Dungey will be around 225-230.

 

[elimunelson]

It's amazing how susceptible he is to hits vs a guy like Doug Flutie who seemed to avoid EVERY hit at every level.

 

[RMH44]

I think Dungey will be around 225-230.

That wouldn't surprise me at all. He put on 15 lbs last year so it appears he has the ability to put on weight. Couple that with his work ethic and anything is possible.

 

[care taker]

hard for a qb to put on a lot of weight, cant get to muscled up, size helps but its also all about luck staying healthy. a hit an inch or two left or right up or down sometimes is the difference

 

[Ish88888]

It's amazing how susceptible he is to hits vs a guy like Doug Flutie who seemed to avoid EVERY hit at every level.

Its practically an intangible skill when you look at guys like flutie, Rodgers, Eli, brees, all the qbs that just have a knack and start every week.

 

[OrangeAl]

I remember in Eric's first game, against Rhode Island in the Dome, there was a play where he ran the ball and looked like he wasn't going to slide, but he did right at the very last second. He took a high hit and I thought, "That was his fault, not the tackler's." He just has a hitter's mentality.

 

[orangepassion]

I think the cheap shot hit from CMU made him subsequently more vulnerable

 

[UnknownOrange]

Its practically an intangible skill when you look at guys like flutie, Rodgers, Eli, brees, all the qbs that just have a knack and start every week.

I haven't seen a QB get crushed and keep going quite like Eli in the 2011 NFC championship @SF

 

[Finwad32]

Such a great game, and he got pounded all day. Fought through it and hit ?Manningham? for the game winner at the end? Very fortunate for the Punt that hit the PR's leg in that one.

If you enjoy watching the actual game footage in these seasons, I bought the playoff wrap ups from '07 and '11, it's the un-edited tv coverage and it's phenomenal to watch if you're a die-hard. Even my wife enjoys watching them.

I haven't seen a QB get crushed and keep going quite like Eli in the 2011 NFC championship @SF

 

[UnknownOrange]

Such a great game, and he got pounded all day. Fought through it and hit ?Manningham? for the game winner at the end? Very fortunate for the Punt that hit the PR's leg in that one.

If you enjoy watching the actual game footage in these seasons, I bought the playoff wrap ups from '07 and '11, it's the un-edited tv coverage and it's phenomenal to watch if you're a die-hard. Even my wife enjoys watching them.

Love that.

 

[Ringostar57]

He would be a crappy boxer. Needs to learn how to get his head and body out of the way. Not very quick or decisive in his movements.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Orangepace]

It's amazing how susceptible he is to hits vs a guy like Doug Flutie who seemed to avoid EVERY hit at every level.

Its practically an intangible skill when you look at guys like flutie, Rodgers, Eli, brees, all the qbs that just have a knack and start every week.

I remember in Eric's first game, against Rhode Island in the Dome, there was a play where he ran the ball and looked like he wasn't going to slide, but he did right at the very last second. He took a high hit and I thought, "That was his fault, not the tackler's." He just has a hitter's mentality.

It's an art that many pocket passers develop. It's much less about getting sacked hit, but moreso less taking BIG hits. Ben Roethlisberger is a master at this as well.

Running/scrambling QB's tend to be susceptible to absorbing bigger hits (meaning they absorb a significant amount of punishment at impact). These players tend to try to make plays with their feet naturally instead of making the wise choice and getting down or out of bounds. Cam Newton is the perfect example. So far, Dungey falls more into this category. For all the reasons we love his fire, we hate it when we watch him absorb so many big hits.