Syracuse hiring Alex Kline as GM

[Millhouse]

Are you talking about deploying analytics for in-game strategy? Or a broader application?

In terms of the latter, that's where the analytics staff for pro franchises tend to earn their keep. For example, the Red Sox have a large analytics staff. Much of their work is focused on player projection and forecasting. Not just current Sox, or MLB players, but the 20 year olds playing for Vanderbilt or winter ball in Mexico, or guys in the Dominican league. If you hit on a couple players that end up being productive major leaguers it justifies the expense of an analytics team, sometimes by multiples.

In the case of basketball I think the true analytical skill is deciphering individual performance in a sport that's very much a team game. There's no better example of that right now than Lampkin. He's doing for us what he did for Colorado. Except there he had 3 NBA-caliber players surrounding him. Our evaluation of him was bad, because we didn't properly distinguish his value on a team that would have far less talent.

I suspect the hope is that Kline and his team make us much better in that aspect of projections and forecasting.

In-game strategy is whole other kettle of fish, IMHO.

See , I don't see how analytics are part of Lampkin. He was fat there and he's fat here and he rebounds there and rebounds here. I guess there could be some fancy analytics to communicate to autry that lampkin doesn't matter if you have terrible shooters shooting all the time and a 5'6 pg who can't get by people

I'm also skeptical of the red Sox analytical minds giving bregman that much money. (He's close to washed up) When there is so many obvious easy mistakes, it's hard for me to believe they're doing groundbreaking stuff privately.

If the front of house is dirty, I assume the kitchen is worse.

Syracuse loves to forecast that players who can't shoot will learn how to. I want them to get out of the forecasting business

 

[Scooch]

See , I don't see how analytics are part of Lampkin. He was fat there and he's fat here and he rebounds there and rebounds here. I guess there could be some fancy analytics to communicate to autry that lampkin doesn't matter if you have terrible shooters shooting all the time and a 5'6 pg who can't get by people

I'm also skeptical of the red Sox analytical minds giving bregman that much money. (He's close to washed up) When there is so many obvious easy mistakes, it's hard for me to believe they're doing groundbreaking stuff privately.

If the front of house is dirty, I assume the kitchen is worse.

Syracuse loves to forecast that players who can't shoot will learn how to. I want them to get out of the forecasting business

OK, so you're in favor of scrapping all data. Noted.

 

[wiCuse]

Dan E was SPECIFICALLY brought in here to teach defense. If anyone is gone next year it’s him

At what point do we hold the person accountable that hires the assistants and put this team together? Dan E isn't a DC in football. Who is responsible for the lack of identity, sub patterns, etc...

 

[tptcuse]

So, what's the deal with that that? I heard Engelsted was supposed to be good defensive coach. Is he actually responsible for teaching defense here? And did he live up to expectations? Does he know his stuff, or can he not communicate it?

Just checked Engelstad's head coaching record, and he had a losing record for 5 of 6 seasons at Mount St. Mary's. Total record 72-109. I'm guessing that's why he quit to take an assistant job. He did better at Southern Vermont previously.

Oh cool! A sacrificial lamb.

 

[Chip]

I'll spell it out - there are people on this board that think Red should keep his job going into the 25/26 season because they think Kline is some sort of savant.

You seem to have an issue with both of them. Red, I get it, this season is horrific. But what's with the shots at Kline? He hasn't much of a chance yet.

 

[phil77]

Oh cool! A sacrificial lamb.

Yup this, NIL, and we got Kline now will be the offseason.

 

[orangefog]

Dan E was SPECIFICALLY brought in here to teach defense. If anyone is gone next year it’s him

I agree, but I would also not mind Griff being gone. I know he is family, but I think we can do a lot better.

 

[Sherman20]

Do you want people in the program talking next year at this time that if only there was a GM they would've been better? There's alot of people from the old guard that don't want to get tossed out with Autry and his staff, they should be but there's going to be alot of fingerpointing and excuses.

Having someone is better than no one.

Personally I want no excuses next Fall, either Autry starts winning games next November and has our record, Kenpom and Net up to where it needs to be or the coaching search should be going full blast by January.

Who are these old guard people? Like support staff?

 

[Millhouse]

I agree, but I would also not mind Griff being gone. I know he is family, but I think we can do a lot better.

It's nothing personal but what experience does he have that autry doesn't? played the same position, sat next to the same guy who probably didn't need their help (and if he didn't, he probably wasn't accepting it anyway)

 

[Millhouse]

You seem to have an issue with both of them. Red, I get it, this season is horrific. But what's with the shots at Kline? He hasn't much of a chance yet.

my shots about analytics are mostly about what i see in games. not really kline specifically - i just wonder about a program that devotes resources to analytics of one kind and ignores basic obvious accepted free analytics on the floor

hopefully, he's good at scouting good players in the wrong system. i am a little wary of relying on a scout's ability to project into the future since the future is so uncertain, especially if their predictions are good.

when everyone is on a one year contract essentially, development matters less.

 

[Millhouse]

OK, so you're in favor of scrapping all data. Noted.

i want them to not scrap all the good free accepted obvious data, which they do every single year

 

[hoopsupstate]

My biggest question with analytics is, do people recognize the obvious? Defense has been our problem all year. We can’t do anything with rim protection. You either have it or you don’t. We don’t. My shock is our total inability or willingness to leave who guys are playing and get in a position of help. Three examples I can’t get out of my mind are:
First possession against Duke a guy drives from right in front of our bench for an uncontested layup. Davis and Lampkin didn’t make the slightest attempt to help. Later in the Duke game, Flagg has McLeod one on one twenty feet on the wing. Everyone in the building knows McLeod needs help on the drive. Flagg dunks and Davis never left the opposite low block. NOONE made the slightest attempt to help. And the final example was against North Carolina when Carlos for some unknown reason was guarding Cadeaux twenty feet from the basket as if he’s the best three point shooter on the floors and get blown by for another layup line layup. Cuffe was right there and watched and never made any attempt to slide over and help.

These are three that stick in my head, but there has been many. This is the one question I would like to ask our coaching staff for a simple reason why this continues to happen after more than twenty games into a season. Even if they come over and foul, at least they would seem engaged defensively. Both JJ and Moore are very poor defensively and it starts with their defensive stance. Neither can stay down for more than two dribbles. Their footwork is poor and they both stand up and get beat. I wanted to take up Coach Griffin’s offer to meet him at Cafe Kabul to talk about the state of the program. I’d do it in a heart beat if I wasn’t living two hours away. I‘m not going to bash the coaching staff because I know they work their butts off. I would just like to hear their take to why this happens. Griff might have a very reasonable explanation. I just want their take on the program and their plan moving forward. There’s a lot of coaching experience on this staff and they have to see what we see. Is it an accountability issue? Are our coaches not demanding enough? God help us if they don’t see it. I just want some answers and for whatever reason, Red is not communicating the issue. He can’t worry about hurting guys feelings. If he gets fired, I doubt the players will somehow apologize for their play. College sports are a ruthless business. As a coach you better be tough and demanding. You teach and if they don’t correct their mistakes, you don’t play guys. It’s basically that simple.

 

[tptcuse]

My biggest question with analytics is, do people recognize the obvious? Defense has been our problem all year. We can’t do anything with rim protection. You either have it or you don’t. We don’t. My shock is our total inability or willingness to leave who guys are playing and get in a position of help. Three examples I can’t get out of my mind are:
First possession against Duke a guy drives from right in front of our bench for an uncontested layup. Davis and Lampkin didn’t make the slightest attempt to help. Later in the Duke game, Flagg has McLeod one on one twenty feet on the wing. Everyone in the building knows McLeod needs help on the drive. Flagg dunks and Davis never left the opposite low block. NOONE made the slightest attempt to help. And the final example was against North Carolina when Carlos for some unknown reason was guarding Cadeaux twenty feet from the basket as if he’s the best three point shooter on the floors and get blown by for another layup line layup. Cuffe was right there and watched and never made any attempt to slide over and help.

These are three that stick in my head, but there has been many. This is the one question I would like to ask our coaching staff for a simple reason why this continues to happen after more than twenty games into a season. Even if they come over and foul, at least they would seem engaged defensively. Both JJ and Moore are very poor defensively and it starts with their defensive stance. Neither can stay down for more than two dribbles. Their footwork is poor and they both stand up and get beat. I wanted to take up Coach Griffin’s offer to meet him at Cafe Kabul to talk about the state of the program. I’d do it in a heart beat if I wasn’t living two hours away. I‘m not going to bash the coaching staff because I know they work their butts off. I would just like to hear their take to why this happens. Griff might have a very reasonable explanation. I just want their take on the program and their plan moving forward. There’s a lot of coaching experience on this staff and they have to see what we see. Is it an accountability issue? Our our coaches not demanding enough? God help us if they don’t see it. I just want some answers and for whatever reason, Red is not communicating the issue. He can’t worry about hurting guys feelings. If he gets fired, I doubt the players will somehow apologize for their play. College sports are a ruthless business. As a coach you better be tough and demanding. You teach and if they don’t correct their mistakes, you don’t play guys. It’s basically that simple.

Great post. I love your point about fouls. I doubt they track it, but we must be close to last in the country in players fouling out. The term "soft" gets thrown around a lot but it is so apt this year.

 

[007]

These are three that stick in my head, but there has been many. This is the one question I would like to ask our coaching staff for a simple reason why this continues to happen after more than twenty games into a season. Even if they come over and foul, at least they would seem engaged defensively. Both JJ and Moore are very poor defensively and it starts with their defensive stance. Neither can stay down for more than two dribbles. Their footwork is poor and they both stand up and get beat. I wanted to take up Coach Griffin’s offer to meet him at Cafe Kabul to talk about the state of the program. I’d do it in a heart beat if I wasn’t living two hours away. I‘m not going to bash the coaching staff because I know they work their butts off. I would just like to hear their take to why this happens. Griff might have a very reasonable explanation. I just want their take on the program and their plan moving forward. There’s a lot of coaching experience on this staff and they have to see what we see. Is it an accountability issue? Our our coaches not demanding enough? God help us if they don’t see it. I just want some answers and for whatever reason, Red is not communicating the issue. He can’t worry about hurting guys feelings. If he gets fired, I doubt the players will somehow apologize for their play. College sports are a ruthless business. As a coach you better be tough and demanding. You teach and if they don’t correct their mistakes, you don’t play guys. It’s basically that simple.

I suspect the answer would be something like: "We talk about that ALL the time in practice. We just don't always see it on the court; we are working on it every day."

You are either coaching it that way (no chance, IMO), allowing it to happen without any accountability; and/or feel like you don't have any other viable options because you have to play somebody.

I've said this before...the stuff that is happening on defense is the most damning evidence from a coaching chops perspective. I know from your coaching career that you fully get this. If you do decide to meet Griff at Cafe Kabul, I'll meet you there.

 

[tptcuse]

I suspect the answer would be something like: "We talk about that ALL the time in practice. We just don't always see it on the court; we are working on it every day."

You are either coaching it that way (no chance, IMO), allowing it to happen without any accountability; and/or feel like you don't have any other viable options because you have to play somebody.

I've said this before...the stuff that is happening on defense is the most damning evidence from a coaching chops perspective. I know from your coaching career that you fully get this. If you do decide to meet Griff at Cafe Kabul, I'll meet you there.

100%. The Fran comparisons can get tiresome, but I'll give another one. When he is asked questions, he talks about practicing every possible game situation over and over, and personally doing the same by studying analytics all the time. He never says, "We talked to them about this" or "We talk about that." It's all, "We DO that." You can't TALK about things that take muscle memory to execute.

Also, what are we doing with strength, conditioning, and nutrition?

 

[hoopsupstate]

Toughness has been a problem at SU for a long time. I don’t know the strength and conditioning coach for basketball, but there is a problem within the program. If you don’t think it matters, just check out the football strength and conditioning program. Houston’s coach said on Game Day today that their strength and conditioning coach plays a major role in developing the toughness with how they play. Houston is one of the worst offensive teams in the country and are dreadful in three point shooting, yet they are number one in offensive rebounding. We have so many possessions that when the ball goes up we have players just watching and they still can’t get back in transition.

 

[cardiac]

Oh cool! A sacrificial lamb.

If Engelstad is responsible for defense and Straughn for offense then what does Griff do? Make wegmans runs for the oranges in visit pictures?

 

[hoopsupstate]

The one common denominator we always hear from Red is “we talked about this.” You can’t just talk about it. Just an example of when late in the game you want to foul and up three. Situations are different and you need to drill it accordingly. For example, if you’re up three late and you want to foul you better know how to execute depending where the ball is. Is it from 95 feet and going the full length of the court, three quarter court, half court, on the sideline (our situation vs BC) or is it on the baseline? Each situation is different and you better practice every situation. Talking about scouting your opponent is not enough. You better go over every situation in practice and show them how you want each situation handled. That’s why you have a scout team in practice. If you don’t ”practice what you preach” it doesn’t matter.