TBT - four minute rule

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#1
Sure cuts down on the endings being "foulfests" to lengthen the game. Do you like it or not? I'm on the fence and will need to watch a few more games before I have a definitive answer.
 
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#2
Sure cuts down on the endings being "foulfests" to lengthen the game. Do you like it or not? I'm on the fence and will need to watch a few more games before I have a definitive answer.
I definitely like it in concept and like the way it played out in an earlier game today. I'll need to see it in a few more games to really but I do hate the late game stall & foul action we see now.
 
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#4
Sure cuts down on the endings being "foulfests" to lengthen the game. Do you like it or not? I'm on the fence and will need to watch a few more games before I have a definitive answer.
Depends on whether we get screwed or not. I guess it gets the team out of the patented JB 4 minute slow down offense.
 
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#5
What is this rule?
At the first stoppage in play after the four minute mark the rule comes into play. The game will end when one team reaches a score that is seven points higher than the leading team's score at the four minute mark. Hopefully my explanation makes sense.
 

OrangeTarheel

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#9
At first I thought this meant they reset the scores for both teams & that would be patently unfair. It is a good idea for cutting out late game fouls for clock management and that is appropriate for TBT but I wouldn't want to see it in the college game.
 

orange79

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#10
I'm on the fence. I do like it when a team is ahead by a lot (like yesterday's game). I'm still not so sure about games in which one team is up by 1 (or tied). I'm sure we can all come up with numerous examples of times a close game had one team make a run (which under the Elam Ending would declare Team A the winner) only to have Team B make an even later run to tie or win in the standard game.
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#11
I think its maybe the best rule in the history of sports. All sports with a clock have a fundamental flaw, which is at some point the players stop playing the game and start wasting time. Its worst in basketball and football. This rule eliminates that. No more standing around wasting time, it's all pure basketball from start to finish.

I also have a huge problem with teams fouling for their own benifit. Fouls are fouls because they have no place in the game. Nobody should be able to grab another player around the waste, for example, and have that help his team. It's bad entertainment and bad sportsmanship.

Every sport with a clock needs something like this to ensure the game gets played from start to finish, instead of spending the end of games wasting time. I sure hope the NCAA and the NBA adopt it.
 
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#12
I like it in theory but the “play to” score is hard to determine the optimal amount.

With it at 7, a team could be down 1 at the under four with possession. In the next minute if they hit two 3s and a 2 while the the other team hits two 3s, the game is over. The team that was trailing wins by 1, while with a normal game we would have 3 mins of play left.

If they went to the rule only when a team leads by more than three scores (10 or more), then it would never rob us of ending s close game too early. All the while preventing the boring endings of games that are not close.
 

OrangeDW

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#13
I like it in theory but the “play to” score is hard to determine the optimal amount.

With it at 7, a team could be down 1 at the under four with possession. In the next minute if they hit two 3s and a 2 while the the other team hits two 3s, the game is over. The team that was trailing wins by 1, while with a normal game we would have 3 mins of play left.

If they went to the rule only when a team leads by more than three scores (10 or more), then it would never rob us of ending s close game too early. All the while preventing the boring endings of games that are not close.
Wait...there is no required score difference for this rule to apply?? I just assumed it was for blowouts. This rule will kick in, in close games too? That is nuts. It’s going to ruin close games.
 

MSOrange

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#15
Wait...there is no required score difference for this rule to apply?? I just assumed it was for blowouts. This rule will kick in, in close games too? That is nuts. It’s going to ruin close games.
Exactly. Fine for blowouts but no need to mess around with close games. Like many things, a good idea in theory but needs some refinement.
 

OrangeDW

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#16
And honestly...playing with a lead and “wasting time” is not easy. Playing the game and not trying to score too early, while also handling defensive pressure...that takes practice and is a part of the game.

I don’t like parts of the game being eliminated because it’s supposedly “boring”. This ain’t NBA Jam.
 

MSOrange

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#17
And honestly...playing with a lead and “wasting time” is not easy. Playing the game and not trying to score too early, while also handling defensive pressure...that takes practice and is a part of the game.

I don’t like parts of the game being eliminated because it’s supposedly “boring”. This ain’t NBA Jam.
That's basically what Gillon said.

"You're taught to manage the clock, you're taught to take a smart shot," Gillon said, "but this is a whole different way. You're really changing the way you play basketball just like that."
 

OttoinGrotto

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#18
I think its maybe the best rule in the history of sports. All sports with a clock have a fundamental flaw, which is at some point the players stop playing the game and start wasting time. Its worst in basketball and football. This rule eliminates that. No more standing around wasting time, it's all pure basketball from start to finish.

I also have a huge problem with teams fouling for their own benifit. Fouls are fouls because they have no place in the game. Nobody should be able to grab another player around the waste, for example, and have that help his team. It's bad entertainment and bad sportsmanship.

Every sport with a clock needs something like this to ensure the game gets played from start to finish, instead of spending the end of games wasting time. I sure hope the NCAA and the NBA adopt it.
I agree completely. Reward playing the game the natural way with increased chances of winning. Once a game gets into players doing unnatural things (foul to stop the clock and send guys to the line, penalty kicks, etc.) it gets dumb.
 

pfister1

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#19
I'm on the fence. I do like it when a team is ahead by a lot (like yesterday's game). I'm still not so sure about games in which one team is up by 1 (or tied). I'm sure we can all come up with numerous examples of times a close game had one team make a run (which under the Elam Ending would declare Team A the winner) only to have Team B make an even later run to tie or win in the standard game. View attachment 134478
I don't like it to the extent that it shortens a close game. Maybe it would work better if it were only instituted when there was a 10 point or more margin in the two teams scores at the 4:00 minute mark?
 

pfister1

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#20
I think its maybe the best rule in the history of sports. All sports with a clock have a fundamental flaw, which is at some point the players stop playing the game and start wasting time. Its worst in basketball and football. This rule eliminates that. No more standing around wasting time, it's all pure basketball from start to finish.

I also have a huge problem with teams fouling for their own benifit. Fouls are fouls because they have no place in the game. Nobody should be able to grab another player around the waste, for example, and have that help his team. It's bad entertainment and bad sportsmanship.

Every sport with a clock needs something like this to ensure the game gets played from start to finish, instead of spending the end of games wasting time. I sure hope the NCAA and the NBA adopt it.

Do they waste time in basketball at the end of the game, or play with a lesser offensive urgency? All possessions until you get inside of 30 seconds still have a shot clock attached to them.

If you find fouling at the end of games to be an issue, then deal with that specifically. Give the offensive team the choice of taking the free throws or retaining possession with a reset shot clock. Try awarding three free throws in certain circumstances to take away the incentive to foul.
 
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#21
Do they waste time in basketball at the end of the game, or play with a lesser offensive urgency? All possessions until you get inside of 30 seconds still have a shot clock attached to them.

If you find fouling at the end of games to be an issue, then deal with that specifically. Give the offensive team the choice of taking the free throws or retaining possession with a reset shot clock. Try awarding three free throws in certain circumstances to take away the incentive to foul.

They waste time at the end of games. As much time as they can within the confines of the shot clock. Before the shot clock teams would waste major portions of the game, which is why the shot clock was an important invention for basketball, but that was 60 years ago. The Elam Ending is the next step towards improving the game farther. It stops players from wasting 20 seconds each possession they have the lead in the last 4 minutes. Players often literally just stand there and dribble the ball in place wasting time when they have the lead. Surely you know this.

I agree there are ways to deal with fouls other than the Elam Ending, and frankly I would institute those changes as well. Committing a foul should never, under any circumstances, benefit your team.

But the biggest problem with basketball is an end of game situation that is lengthy and boring. It drags out with multiple fouls, multiple free throws and lots of wasting time. The Elam Ending is an elegant solution that creates competitive sport where there was none and the best rule basketball has seen since the invention of the shot clock.
 

Col. Bleep

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#22
Committing a foul should never, under any circumstances, benefit your team.
The rule goes a long way to avoiding late fouls but there's still the option of fouling a poor free throw shooter. Team Fancy might have been better off playing percentages by fouling Arinze once the Elam Rule was in effect.
 

PoppyHart

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#23
I like it in theory but the “play to” score is hard to determine the optimal amount.

With it at 7, a team could be down 1 at the under four with possession. In the next minute if they hit two 3s and a 2 while the the other team hits two 3s, the game is over. The team that was trailing wins by 1, while with a normal game we would have 3 mins of play left.

If they went to the rule only when a team leads by more than three scores (10 or more), then it would never rob us of ending s close game too early. All the while preventing the boring endings of games that are not close.[/QUOTE
Wait...there is no required score difference for this rule to apply?? I just assumed it was for blowouts. This rule will kick in, in close games too? That is nuts. It’s going to ruin close games.
No. It simply adds a target score of +7 (for now at least) to the winning teams score. So if the score is 80 to 75, they play to 87. If its 80 to 65, they play to 87. If it's 80 to 79, they play to 87.
 


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