The all-inclusive Cuse Coaching Thread

[orangenauburn]

Some people should hope that no one pulls up the posts after the LSU game where more people picked 7 or 8 wins than 3 or 4 wins.

I said 9-3

And it SHOULD have been an 8 win season

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

No doubt. We win the Pinstripe Bowl on 12/29/12, and on 1/6/13 Marrone is introduced as the Bills new head coach. Obviously he was negotiating with them before we played the bowl game. Timing was atrocious for us. If we had known we were going to have a HC vacancy weeks prior we'd have brought in someone else.

Although, knowing Gross's track record it's likely we would have hired someone worse than Shafer.

Who is to say he wasn't on parallel paths, meaning he was also negotiating with Syracuse as well.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

So now we're saying that because the "experts" predicted we'd win 4 games -- the same "experts" that many people here ripped to shreds because they were being big dummy heads -- that we need to retain the coach because we will probably finish with 3 or 4 wins?

If people want to bring Shafer back that's cool, we're all entitled to an opinion. But are we saying "they thought we'd suck, and we do suck, so one more year"? That's the reason?

Or it says that actual objective (non-fans) observers saw 4 or 5 wins before the first kickoff and with a starting senior QB. Thus, that was our predicted season win total without all of the emotion and bias that comes with being a fan.

If you took the over you you still got skin in the game. So while one could argue the team has underachieved according to their own fan expectations it's a much more difficult argument at this time to say the team underachieved according to national objective expectations.

If they lose out than that argument is more logical but if they win 2 out of 3 then it's quite easy to say national expectations were met.

Edit: I'm using Vegas book lines for the 4.5 O/U not pundits or fan predictions.

 

[tep624]

Yes! Just need a cubit miracle win to get 6 wins and he may be kept as well. Although it looks like Maryland will be making a run for babers. We might have to go for Campbell.

I thought Maryland was broke.

 

[qdawgg]

Or it says that actual objective (non-fans) observers saw 4 or 5 wins before the first kickoff and with a starting senior QB. Thus, that was our predicted season win total without all of the emotion and bias that comes with being a fan.

If you took the over you you still got skin in the game. So while one could argue the team has underachieved according to their own fan expectations it's a much more difficult argument at this time to say the team underachieved according to national objective expectations.

If they lose out than that argument is more logical but if they win 2 out of 3 then it's quite easy to say national expectations were met.

Edit: I'm using Vegas book lines for the 4.5 O/U not pundits or fan predictions.

So again, we lose our starting QB but put in ED who ends up being a significant upgrade. Yet somehow that means 3 wins is ok even though we upgraded the QB position. If the vegas line was 4.5 shouldn't expectation move to 5 minimum if not 5.5?

 

[qdawgg]

and how do we know vegas didn't look at our coaching staff and say, "there is no way this team is a bowl team". The vegas line being set at 4.5 isn't necessarily a ringing endorsement.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

So again, we lose our starting QB but put in ED who ends up being a significant upgrade. Yet somehow that means 3 wins is ok even though we upgraded the QB position. If the vegas line was 4.5 shouldn't expectation move to 5 minimum if not 5.5?

It's your opinion that Dungey was an upgrade for this season's win total. Factually, we'll never know. I do believe Dungey is a better player but have no idea how the season plays out with Hunt as a starter. All we know is Hunt was named the starter by the staff.

As far as Vegas if they knew we had a true freshman starting the season it's not a stretch to say the O/U would have moved down to 4 from 4.5. Upperclassmen QB's do provide value as far as these things go.

My point is, and one that doesn't seem to be discussed often, that although the individual expectations of fans weren't met (and those expectations ramped up after our 1st 4 games) does not = the team underachieved.

I trust the business of Vegas and for good reason over sports fans when it comes to realistic expectations. It's the only way one can attempt to be objective about the situation. The we shoulda, coulda, woulda game is a circular argument.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

and how do we know vegas didn't look at our coaching staff and say, "there is no way this team is a bowl team". The vegas line being set at 4.5 isn't necessarily a ringing endorsement.

Vegas looks at prior season results, returning talent and schedule. Coaching and in-game decision making is barely on the radar in the pre-season O/U.

 

[Willy75]

I thought Maryland was broke.

They have an increasing share of Big 10 money plus Under Armour.

 

[TheCusian]

It's your opinion that Dungey was an upgrade for this season's win total. Factually, we'll never know. I do believe Dungey is a better player but have no idea how the season plays out with Hunt as a starter. All we know is Hunt was named the starter by the staff. As far as Vegas if they knew we had a true freshman starting the season it's not a stretch to say the O/U would have moved down to 4 from 4.5. Upperclassmen QB's do provide value as far as these things go. My point is, and one that doesn't seem to be discussed often, that although the individual expectations of fans weren't met (and those expectations ramped up after our 1st 4 games) does not = the team underachieved. I trust the business of Vegas and for good reason over sports fans when it comes to realistic expectations. It's the only way one can attempt to be objective about the situation. The we shoulda, coulda, woulda game is a circular argument.

That's all well and good. But no matter where your expectations were - this season is a disappointment in that we should be improving even against better comp. That's where this staff lost me. I expected to lose vs FSU and Louisville... But not so by much and not by looking like we regressed.

 

[qdawgg]

I trust the business of Vegas and for good reason over sports fans when it comes to realistic expectations. It's the only way one can attempt to be objective about the situation. The we shoulda, coulda, woulda game is a circular argument.

So just based on what you deem the only objective opinion... the outlook in vegas was we would win 4.5 and we have 3 wins, potentially our only 3 for the season. That is a pretty massive underachievement.

And as TheCusian pointed out as well, no real definable improvement.

 

[bgdadydnk]

Orgeron HC, Reagan OC and retain Daoust promoting him to DC. That would be a good start.

I like the Daoust part of this plus add Acosta puhleeze!!!

 

[bgdadydnk]

Current College Head Coaches

1. Dino Babers, 54 (Bowling Green)
2. Jeff Brohm, 44 (Western Kentucky)
3. Tom Herman, 40 (Houston)
4. Philip Montgomery, 43 (Tulsa)
5. Matt Rhule, 40 (Temple)
6. Matt Campbell, 35 (Toledo)
7. Justin Fuente, 39 (Memphis State)
8. Doc Holliday, 58 (Marshall)
9. Todd Monken, 49 (Southern Miss)
10. Ruffin McNeill, 57 (East Carolina)

College Coordinators

1. Lincoln Riley, 32 (Oklahoma OC)
2. Sonny Cumbie, 34 (TCU Co-OC / QB coach)
3. Kendal Briles, 33 (Baylor OC)
4. Matt Luke, 39 (Ole Miss OC/AHC)
5. Doug Meacham, 50 (TCU Co-OC)
6. Eric Morris, 30 (Texas Tech OC)
7. Mike Yurcich, 38 (Oklahoma State OC)
8. Eliah Drinkwitz, 31 (Boise State OC)
9. Jake Spavital, 30 (Texas A&M OC/QB)
10. Bill Gonzales, 44 (Mississippi State OC
11. Tony Franklin, 58 (Cal OC)

I know Yurcich from when he recruited my kid before he went to Ok St......offensive genius.....had his last school running a avg of 80 offensive plays a game with his hurry up offense.....his QB won the D2 heismen that year...... and he's doing great things at Ok St..... would be someone who ( I think ) stay OTJ for a good number of years....plus he's a high energy guy and great recruiter!! NOT that I am pushing for a coaching change....just throwing my .02 in on one of the people on these lists that I personally know.....personally I see a great deal of developable talent on this current roster and in the prospective recruits yet to sign......I hope Cuse is on the rise no matter who is at the helm!!!!!

 

[Chip]

This is not a war, it's a game played by kids.

Next time you go to your kids game (if you have any) and their team is down a significant amount of points or runs or goals. Yell out to them that you will be warming up the car and the game is pretty much over. Tell the coach to pull the best players and to put in kids that aren't so good so they can wind out the clock.

What message are you sending?

Not in a million years would I do that to my kid or their teammates, yet most everyone here is OK with Shafer doing it. I am not and I would bet that Dungey's parents would not be OK with it either.

Did you watch the Florida State game? If not, skip to the part with about 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter. See who comes in to play QB for Syracuse.

 

[orangenirvana]

I know Yurcich from when he recruited my kid before he went to Ok St...offensive genius...had his last school running a avg of 80 offensive plays a game with his hurry up offense...his QB won the D2 heismen that year... and he's doing great things at Ok St... would be someone who ( I think ) stay OTJ for a good number of years...plus he's a high energy guy and great recruiter!! NOT that I am pushing for a coaching change...just throwing my .02 in on one of the people on these lists that I personally know...personally I see a great deal of developable talent on this current roster and in the prospective recruits yet to sign...I hope Cuse is on the rise no matter who is at the helm!!!!!

I'm sold.

 

[chakka3421]

If we have learned anything during the Shafer era it should be that experience matters. It is the most reliable indicator of future success. We hired a great DC with no HC experience who hired an OC with no experience and a QB coach with D3 experience and OLine coach with no OLine experience.. IMO Shafer failed because he hired kpoorly by ignoring experience.

CFB is a tough business and is not self-taught.

IMO, our criteria should include HC's in the MAC or AAC and/or P5 OC's with extensive experience under highly successful head coaches. Is there an exception out there? Sure, but can we really be rolling the dice at this point? There are plenty of high probability hires out there and we need to go get one. Going cheap and taking a bigger risk can cost a lot more over the next 5 years than paying up now.

I am going to continue to have faith in Coyle until he proves me wrong therefore, I am looking forward to an exciting hire we can all rally around.

You have it right. There was a lot of early discussion about who Shafer brought it as his assistants. At some of the companies I've worked at I couldn't imagine myself leading a division within these companies. Why - because I simply have no experience in those lines of business. The CEOs running these companies hire very qualified, very experienced divisional leaders. If I were lucky enough to get one of these jobs by default the company's percentage of failure goes way way up. I might OJT it due to my "effort and enthusiasm" to eventually get it to a point to be successful but the chance of failure - and me being out of a job - is high. You just don't do this in business and college football is a business.

Here is where Shafer lost me early on and now 3 years later it shows on the field. OL has regressed along with the entire offensive scheme has been a trial and error sh$tshow first with McD and now Lester. Now that Shafer is HC, the defense has slid downhill as well. It's in turmoil and nothing I've seen tells me it is fixable with the current coaching staff. Even given more time, the percentage of failure is still very very high.

Coaching decisions is where Shafer made "strategic errors". Game time decision making he has made "tactical errors" game after game. If Coyle makes no changes this year with only 1 year left on Shafer's contract, then I will start questioning Coyle. You guys realize Coyle has only been an AD for less than 5 years so to me it will be one of those defining moments of his career.

 

[BVille44]

Is anyone else hearing from people with contacts on the hill that Ed Orgeron is being targeted by AD Coyle to be on new HC?

 

[CuseOnly]

You have it right. There was a lot of early discussion about who Shafer brought it as his assistants. At some of the companies I've worked at I couldn't imagine myself leading a division within these companies. Why - because I simply have no experience in those lines of business. The CEOs running these companies hire very qualified, very experienced divisional leaders. If I were lucky enough to get one of these jobs by default the company's percentage of failure goes way way up. I might OJT it due to my "effort and enthusiasm" to eventually get it to a point to be successful but the chance of failure - and me being out of a job - is high. You just don't do this in business and college football is a business.

Here is where Shafer lost me early on and now 3 years later it shows on the field. OL has regressed along with the entire offensive scheme has been a trial and error sh$tshow first with McD and now Lester. Now that Shafer is HC, the defense has slid downhill as well. It's in turmoil and nothing I've seen tells me it is fixable with the current coaching staff. Even given more time, the percentage of failure is still very very high.

Coaching decisions is where Shafer made "strategic errors". Game time decision making he has made "tactical errors" game after game. If Coyle makes no changes this year with only 1 year left on Shafer's contract, then I will start questioning Coyle. You guys realize Coyle has only been an AD for less than 5 years so to me it will be one of those defining moments of his career.

You say the defense has slid downhill, how do you explain the first 2 Bullough years being very good in 2013 and top 30 in 2014? Scheme hasn't changed but the players did, that is not on the coaches.

I agree with you on the offense though.

 

[orangenirvana]

Is anyone else hearing from people with contacts on the hill that Ed Orgeron is being targeted by AD Coyle to be on new HC?

Let's hope not.

 

[CuseOnly]

Is anyone else hearing from people with contacts on the hill that Ed Orgeron is being targeted by AD Coyle to be on new HC?

So you have heard this from people in the know?

 

[CuseOnly]

Let's hope not.

I wouldn't mind Ed O as our HC, he did a great job as interim at USC and he is a great recruiter.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I wouldn't mind Ed O as our HC, he did a great job as interim at USC and he is a great recruiter.

You need offense, his OLE MISS teams were downright dreadful on offense, that is what did him in.

Still best recruiter in the business though

 

[orangenirvana]

You say the defense has slid downhill, how do you explain the first 2 Bullough years being very good in 2013 and top 30 in 2014? Scheme hasn't changed but the players did, that is not on the coaches.

I agree with you on the offense though.

That's pretty silly to say, isn't it? Coaches are responsible for recruiting and developing players.

I don't think the coaching staff should be replaced solely because the defense stunk this season. I'm pretty confident Shafer and Bullough know how to put together a decent defense as long as they aren't facing Paul Johnson. But it doesn't help that Shafer's bread-and-butter took a huge nose dive in year 3. It's just a piece of the 'Why Shafer needs to go' pie.

 

[CuseOnly]

You need offense, his OLE MISS teams were downright dreadful on offense, that is what did him in

He needs to hire the right OC, that is a hiring issue which is on him as HC but as we have seen with HCSS the wrong guy is a disaster. He needs to hire someone proven as an OC.

 

[CuseOnly]

That's pretty silly to say, isn't it? Coaches are responsible for recruiting and developing players.

I don't think the coaching staff should be replaced solely because the defense stunk this season. I'm pretty confident Shafer and Bullough know how to put together a decent defense as long as they aren't facing Paul Johnson. But it doesn't help that Shafer's bread-and-butter took a huge nose dive in year 3. It's just a piece of the 'Why Shafer needs to go' pie.

I am looking for the factors that are not constant to determine where I believe the issue lies.

Coaches - No Change
Scheme - No Change
Did the coaches forget how to coach - Doubt it, all of them have about 20 years in
Players - Wholesale changes
Youth - We are much younger, playing 8 Frosh & Soph on D
Talent level - Pretty similar to what we had last year

The contributing factors IMO are youth and inexperience.

You are just assuming by your argument that the coaches failed to "coach up" the players and it is on them. You can't coach experience into a player.