The all-inclusive Rutgers dumpster fire thread...

[tipphill]

Guy was mediocre in a down big east. Yet somehow he's going to win in the big ten. Just stop dude.

never said that at all and if thats what you get from conversations, take a class in comprehension. i could go into detail regarding your insults and ignor...in reponses, but that would place me very close your level. DUDE--cannot resist that intelligent ending that you so eloquently used.

 

[NJCuse97]

Why? Recruiting used to be a regional thing. Now it is national. This isn't the 1980s. We play how many games within 250 miles of a NJ recruit?

About 6 a year. Every so often it could be as much as 8 (Pitt and BC on the road are still close to 250 miles from NJ).
Based on what I am hearing here and elsewhere, we should look for the places nobody else recruits and find the five stars lying there that no other program knows about and it is perfectly OK if that is Montana, as we are bound to have better luck there than NJ or NY or NH or PA... because recruiting is no longer regional.

Why is NJ too picked over, but Florida is not, what with 3-5 high level teams in state recruiting Florida and that isn't considering EVERY OTHER P5 FOOTBALL SCHOOL mining Florida. We have tried Texas it seems and gotten one or two players, along with calls for a new QB coach and a general lack of hope there as Texas is probably harder for us to pull from than Florida by 10x, after all, outside OC scheduling, we won't play a single game ever within 250 miles of TX. In fact, the eastern most points of TX is still 650 - 700 miles from Louisville, Atlanta, or Tallahassee.

Mike Vick's mom wanted him to stay home. I'm sure other moms feel the same. That is why we need to recruit NJ. There are better options there than EVERY STATE in that 250 mile radius you mention other than perhaps PA.

 

[NJCuse97]

never said that at all and if thats what you get from conversations, take a class in comprehension. i could go into detail regarding your insults and ignor...in reponses, but that would place me very close your level. DUDE--cannot resist that intelligent ending that you so eloquently used.

Many seem to think the "fear of Schiano" has something to do with some potential Big Ten dominance. It has absolutely nothing to do with his success or failure on the field against Ohio State. It has more to do with yet another competitor for recruits that has shown success recruiting in the region we should be recruiting. The fact that he did it in a weak Big East is only indicative of the higher potential he has recruiting to a higher profile program and league. In fact, BC has less to offer when going head to head because they are the same distance and play in the same conference with the same opponents. Rutgers and Schiano have something different to offer, not matter how bad they look doing it.

 

[bpo57]

Many seem to think the "fear of Schiano" has something to do with some potential Big Ten dominance. It has absolutely nothing to do with his success or failure on the field against Ohio State. It has more to do with yet another competitor for recruits that has shown success recruiting in the region we should be recruiting. The fact that he did it in a weak Big East is only indicative of the higher potential he has recruiting to a higher profile program and league. In fact, BC has less to offer when going head to head because they are the same distance and play in the same conference with the same opponents. Rutgers and Schiano have something different to offer, not matter how bad they look doing it.

Such a simple concept yet so hard for some to grasp.

 

[FloridaFan]

Higher profile program? Sir/Mam this is a Rutgers we are talking about

 

[NJCuse97]

Higher profile program? Sir/Mam this is a Rutgers we are talking about

High in comparison to what they were when he was first there.

 

[PhatOrange]

About 6 a year. Every so often it could be as much as 8 (Pitt and BC on the road are still close to 250 miles from NJ).
Based on what I am hearing here and elsewhere, we should look for the places nobody else recruits and find the five stars lying there that no other program knows about and it is perfectly OK if that is Montana, as we are bound to have better luck there than NJ or NY or NH or PA... because recruiting is no longer regional.

Why is NJ too picked over, but Florida is not, what with 3-5 high level teams in state recruiting Florida and that isn't considering EVERY OTHER P5 FOOTBALL SCHOOL mining Florida. We have tried Texas it seems and gotten one or two players, along with calls for a new QB coach and a general lack of hope there as Texas is probably harder for us to pull from than Florida by 10x, after all, outside OC scheduling, we won't play a single game ever within 250 miles of TX. In fact, the eastern most points of TX is still 650 - 700 miles from Louisville, Atlanta, or Tallahassee.

Mike Vick's mom wanted him to stay home. I'm sure other moms feel the same. That is why we need to recruit NJ. There are better options there than EVERY STATE in that 250 mile radius you mention other than perhaps PA.

2018

Florida had 211 players in the nfl
CA 185
TX 175
Georgia 123
OH 76
PA 59
NC 55
NJ 55
VA 47
IL 46
MI 43
SC 43

 

[HRE Otto IV]

About 6 a year. Every so often it could be as much as 8 (Pitt and BC on the road are still close to 250 miles from NJ).
Based on what I am hearing here and elsewhere, we should look for the places nobody else recruits and find the five stars lying there that no other program knows about and it is perfectly OK if that is Montana, as we are bound to have better luck there than NJ or NY or NH or PA... because recruiting is no longer regional.

Why is NJ too picked over, but Florida is not, what with 3-5 high level teams in state recruiting Florida and that isn't considering EVERY OTHER P5 FOOTBALL SCHOOL mining Florida. We have tried Texas it seems and gotten one or two players, along with calls for a new QB coach and a general lack of hope there as Texas is probably harder for us to pull from than Florida by 10x, after all, outside OC scheduling, we won't play a single game ever within 250 miles of TX. In fact, the eastern most points of TX is still 650 - 700 miles from Louisville, Atlanta, or Tallahassee.

Mike Vick's mom wanted him to stay home. I'm sure other moms feel the same. That is why we need to recruit NJ. There are better options there than EVERY STATE in that 250 mile radius you mention other than perhaps PA.

Good job missing the point. Even Northern NJ kids are not close to Syracuse. They are still well over 200 miles away. Central and South Jersey kids are even further away. NJ isn’t local. There is no advantage for SU vs other schools. We should recruit Jersey but let’s not pretend like it is Florida in terms of talent. The type of kids SU can pull from Jersey we can find elsewhere as well. Who gives a flying F whether that kid is from Jersey vs Westchester, Long Island, Connecticut, etc. No one is saying abandon NJ. Prioritizing an overrated recruiting state that is over recruited is about as bad a recruiting strategy as you can have.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Many seem to think the "fear of Schiano" has something to do with some potential Big Ten dominance. It has absolutely nothing to do with his success or failure on the field against Ohio State. It has more to do with yet another competitor for recruits that has shown success recruiting in the region we should be recruiting. The fact that he did it in a weak Big East is only indicative of the higher potential he has recruiting to a higher profile program and league. In fact, BC has less to offer when going head to head because they are the same distance and play in the same conference with the same opponents. Rutgers and Schiano have something different to offer, not matter how bad they look doing it.

You have NJ in your name but seem to know very little about NJ. Where do the best NJ HS kids play? Where do those kids go to college? Where did Hafley get kids to go to Pitt? You put those two together and don’t think it is a bigger threat?

 

[NJCuse97]

Good job missing the point. Even Northern NJ kids are not close to Syracuse. They are still well over 200 miles away. Central and South Jersey kids are even further away. NJ isn’t local. There is no advantage for SU vs other schools. We should recruit Jersey but let’s not pretend like it is Florida in terms of talent. The type of kids SU can pull from Jersey we can find elsewhere as well. Who gives a flying F whether that kid is from Jersey vs Westchester, Long Island, Connecticut, etc. No one is saying abandon NJ. Prioritizing an overrated recruiting state that is over recruited is about as bad a recruiting strategy as you can have.

“Good job missing the goalpost I just moved!” You started at a random 250 and then pull it to 200? NJ top to bottom is probably (without looking) 200-320 miles from SU. I grew up in North Jersey. I know the awareness and proximity we’ll. I don’t care if they are from NJ or LI or CT but as you can see from PhatOrange post, NJ is the second most talented in the NE and 7 in the country and it’s only 200-320 miles away. Pennsylvania recruiting is stronger in Western PA where we go head to head with Pitt, PSU, WVU and even OSU for all of them. I’m not suggesting we can’t beat out WVU or Pitt, but we don’t have a great track record doing so in Western PA. Nobody is pretending it’s Florida as is evidenced by every P5 in existence recruiting Florida. That said, the Florida kids call NJ the Florida of the north. Per capita it is the best performing in the NE meaning you are more likely to find a D1 level player in NJ by throwing a dart than even PA. The DMV is probably best in this category and we continue to recruit there as we should. The size or density of NJ allows you to cover more ground with less resources as well. I just don’t see why everyone puts up a fight when some say recruiting NJ is valuable and important.

 

[NJCuse97]

You have NJ in your name but seem to know very little about NJ. Where do the best NJ HS kids play? Where do those kids go to college? Where did Hafley get kids to go to Pitt? You put those two together and don’t think it is a bigger threat?

Why are you concerned with him? He recruits NJ and if one of our peers thinks there is value in recruiting NJ then the joke’s on them right!? Been fooling this guy since he was at Pitt! What a rube he is! Glad we stayed away from Dion Lewis. BTW, why did he leave Albany to go to HS in NJ?? As I said, I grew up in North Jersey. I am well aware of the parochials in North Jersey. Used to be you had to recruit the inner cities too, like Paterson, but the Catholic schools have scooped most of them now. In the south it’s still the Camden area you want to hit. I grew up with the Toal kids and I had Schiano as a coach my freshman year of HS, the same school he and then Senior Tim Pernetti went to. Also the same school Greg Toal and Chris Simms attended. Also our two kickers, the Krautman brothers. I am not the most knowledgeable about NJ football, but I know a thing or two.
What I said was BC has nothing to offer NJ kids that we don’t. It’s easier to stand toe to toe. Rutgers has something different. If a kid wants to play in the Big House and isn’t top ten, Rutgers can offer that and BC along with us can’t.

 

[orangenauburn]

We've shifted focus over the years. Depends on staff too.

Some years we went after PA and OH kids
Some years we went after DMV kids
Some years we went after Georgia kids
Some years have been Carolina kids

What I've seen is they have been selective in their efforts in the Northeast on who they will put time and energy into recruiting, while pursuing Florida and whatever other state is on their plate at the time.

 

[tipphill]

Why are you concerned with him? He recruits NJ and if one of our peers thinks there is value in recruiting NJ then the joke’s on them right!? Been fooling this guy since he was at Pitt! What a rube he is! Glad we stayed away from Dion Lewis. BTW, why did he leave Albany to go to HS in NJ?? As I said, I grew up in North Jersey. I am well aware of the parochials in North Jersey. Used to be you had to recruit the inner cities too, like Paterson, but the Catholic schools have scooped most of them now. In the south it’s still the Camden area you want to hit. I grew up with the Toal kids and I had Schiano as a coach my freshman year of HS, the same school he and then Senior Tim Pernetti went to. Also the same school Greg Toal and Chris Simms attended. Also our two kickers, the Krautman brothers. I am not the most knowledgeable about NJ football, but I know a thing or two.
What I said was BC has nothing to offer NJ kids that we don’t. It’s easier to stand toe to toe. Rutgers has something different. If a kid wants to play in the Big House and isn’t top ten, Rutgers can offer that and BC along with us can’t.

bc has much better academics than ru and us. what role that plays into recruiting, i am not sure. you are right on about njhs football.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

“Good job missing the goalpost I just moved!” You started at a random 250 and then pull it to 200? NJ top to bottom is probably (without looking) 200-320 miles from SU. I grew up in North Jersey. I know the awareness and proximity we’ll. I don’t care if they are from NJ or LI or CT but as you can see from PhatOrange post, NJ is the second most talented in the NE and 7 in the country and it’s only 200-320 miles away. Pennsylvania recruiting is stronger in Western PA where we go head to head with Pitt, PSU, WVU and even OSU for all of them. I’m not suggesting we can’t beat out WVU or Pitt, but we don’t have a great track record doing so in Western PA. Nobody is pretending it’s Florida as is evidenced by every P5 in existence recruiting Florida. That said, the Florida kids call NJ the Florida of the north. Per capita it is the best performing in the NE meaning you are more likely to find a D1 level player in NJ by throwing a dart than even PA. The DMV is probably best in this category and we continue to recruit there as we should. The size or density of NJ allows you to cover more ground with less resources as well. I just don’t see why everyone puts up a fight when some say recruiting NJ is valuable and important.

Again missing the point. SU is drivable but it is very far from local. I have made the trip 6 times a year for 20 years. It isn’t a short drive, especially for families who are more likely to have stops, which I generally avoid. Do you really think a four hour trip is a draw? Even more so when we don’t play Temple, Rutgers, Maryland, Penn State, UConn, West Virginia as often as we used to.

Just being drivable is not going to give us a sizable advantage. Do you really think that makes a difference vs WV, Pitt, BC, MD? RU being local has an advantage. The B1G with northeast schools and a higher football profile is an advantage, even for schools like Purdue. Without an assistant with NJ ties on the staff, it will be very hard to pull anything outside of under the radar kids. We can get kids like Chibane, Davis, Spruill but those aren’t the kids Shady is going after anyway.

 

[Townie72]

bc has much better academics than ru and us. what role that plays into recruiting, i am not sure. you are right on about njhs football.

When a student accustomed to a Catholic high school environment visits a Catholic college or university like BC, the school seems both familiar and friendly to them. These schools have a qualitative “feel” to them that’s different. And they are used to the staff and leadership caring about them as individuals.

SU, as a private school, has some of this. Everyone knows that their jobs depend upon a student body that is paying a lot of money to be there.

Rutgers is at the other end of the continuum. It’s a Government school. Soviet style buildings built on the “low bid” cheap and a bureaucracy to deal with. If any school could be accused of lacking a “soul”, it would be Rutgers. The staff knows that their jobs aren’t tied to student satisfaction. They are government employees, near fire-proof, counting the days til retirement as they mindlessly stamp the paperwork of faceless students in the process.

That accounts for all the “Family” emphasis from Schiano. He was trying to give the football players something they would never get from the University.

With Catholic schools dominating NJ football and attracting the best players, it’s no surprise that BC has done well there and will continue to do well.

 

[TheCusian]

Many seem to think the "fear of Schiano" has something to do with some potential Big Ten dominance. It has absolutely nothing to do with his success or failure on the field against Ohio State. It has more to do with yet another competitor for recruits that has shown success recruiting in the region we should be recruiting. The fact that he did it in a weak Big East is only indicative of the higher potential he has recruiting to a higher profile program and league. In fact, BC has less to offer when going head to head because they are the same distance and play in the same conference with the same opponents. Rutgers and Schiano have something different to offer, not matter how bad they look doing it.

see, here’s where you lost me. They do offer something different and have for years - you can lose to Ohio State and Michigan by a bazillion points while setting records for offensive futility OR you can play here and beat FSU and Clemson?

I mean Shady can sell the program all he wants and some will buy in - but they’ll need to actually win. While we’ve had our share of one-sided losses. #2 team in a P5 conference is the bar - and Dino has that over Shady, until it changes. It won’t, IMO.

 

[bpo57]

2018

Florida had 211 players in the nfl
CA 185
TX 175
Georgia 123
OH 76
PA 59
NC 55
NJ 55
VA 47
IL 46
MI 43
SC 43

No doubt Florida churns out a massive amount of talent but they have 5-6 legit college teams in state and the rest of the SEC lurking right around the corner. Counting on a steady stream of Floridians to journey up to the tropical environs of upstate NY seems dubious to me. Grab a few if u can but SU needs to be strong in the tri-state area, particularly NJ. This is critical because there just isn't a whole lot of football talent in upstate NY. And New England ain't so hot either.

 

[bpo57]

Good job missing the point. Even Northern NJ kids are not close to Syracuse. They are still well over 200 miles away. Central and South Jersey kids are even further away. NJ isn’t local. There is no advantage for SU vs other schools. We should recruit Jersey but let’s not pretend like it is Florida in terms of talent. The type of kids SU can pull from Jersey we can find elsewhere as well. Who gives a flying F whether that kid is from Jersey vs Westchester, Long Island, Connecticut, etc. No one is saying abandon NJ. Prioritizing an overrated recruiting state that is over recruited is about as bad a recruiting strategy as you can have.

Not to quibble with geography but I live in Princeton, NJ and I'm 225 miles away from downtown Syracuse. Anybody living in northern NJ is easily less than 200 miles away and should get up to Syracuse in well under four hours. I can make it in 4:15 from where i live and I'm not going more than 75 mph.

 

[PhatOrange]

No doubt Florida churns out a massive amount of talent but they have 5-6 legit college teams in state and the rest of the SEC lurking right around the corner. Counting on a steady stream of Floridians to journey up to the tropical environs of upstate NY seems dubious to me. Grab a few if u can but SU needs to be strong in the tri-state area, particularly NJ. This is critical because there just isn't a whole lot of football talent in upstate NY. And New England ain't so hot either.

Florida players are better, even their average players are better. They play more football. More speed.

It seems dubious to me to worry about recruiting against 25 schools for 1 elite NY kid, or a handful of schools for 1 developmental NY kid; (who plays 9 games a year and then not again until the middle of next August)...

over a kid from Florida who's likely a more finished product, playing a 12 game regular season schedule, as well as a spring season; playing against the best talent in the country (at every classification.)

Getting a mid to high 3-Star Florida kid to NY I'd bet is much easier than getting an elite NY/NJ kid. Us winning that elite Tri-State kid might be 10 or less times over the past 25 years or more.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

2019 draft NJ had two first round draft picks (Allen and Gary). Only one other NJ kid was taken before the 6th round (Armstead in 5th).

2018 was a better year for NJ. Two 1st rounders (Nelson and Fitzpatrick), two 2nd rounders (Gesicki and Turay), and two 4th rounders (Averett and White).

2017 even better. Three 1st rounders (Reddick, Peppers, Njoku), a 2nd rounder (Dawkins), one 3rd (Douglas), a 4th (Davenport), and a 5th rounder (Eluemunor).

So who from that list could we have really gotten? Many of those kids went to better programs. Several of those kids slipped through the cracks and didn’t even play P5. Those are the under recruited types that we need to find but Shady will overlook. Only a very few came from peer programs. We would need an ace NJ recruiter to consistently bring those kids in with or without Shady at RU.

 

[bpo57]

Florida players are better, even their average players are better. They play more football. More speed.

It seems dubious to me to worry about recruiting against 25 schools for 1 elite NY kid, or a handful of schools for 1 developmental NY kid; (who plays 9 games a year and then not again until the middle of next August)...

over a kid from Florida who's likely a more finished product, playing a 12 game regular season schedule, as well as a spring season; playing against the best talent in the country (at every classification.)

Getting a mid to high 3-Star Florida kid to NY I'd bet is much easier than getting an elite NY/NJ kid. Us winning that elite Tri-State kid might be 10 or less times over the past 25 years or more.

I laid out that NY HS talent is not so good. NJ talent is 10x better and should be tapped as much as possible. I live in NJ and am a college football junkie and I see NJ kids playing for good teams all over the country. If we aren't getting some of that then we're not coming anywhere near maximizing our potential.

 

[Briancuse]

When a student accustomed to a Catholic high school environment visits a Catholic college or university like BC, the school seems both familiar and friendly to them. These schools have a qualitative “feel” to them that’s different. And they are used to the staff and leadership caring about them as individuals.

SU, as a private school, has some of this. Everyone knows that their jobs depend upon a student body that is paying a lot of money to be there.

Rutgers is at the other end of the continuum. It’s a Government school. Soviet style buildings built on the “low bid” cheap and a bureaucracy to deal with. If any school could be accused of lacking a “soul”, it would be Rutgers. The staff knows that their jobs aren’t tied to student satisfaction. They are government employees, near fire-proof, counting the days til retirement as they mindlessly stamp the paperwork of faceless students in the process.

That accounts for all the “Family” emphasis from Schiano. He was trying to give the football players something they would never get from the University.

With Catholic schools dominating NJ football and attracting the best players, it’s no surprise that BC has done well there and will continue to do well.

It can go both ways I went to catholic school for 4 years and wanted nothing to do with anything religious after I graduated.

 

[Townie72]

It can go both ways I went to catholic school for 4 years and wanted nothing to do with anything religious after I graduated.

If you look at where Catholic high school grads go to college it tells a different story. Or better yet check the BC roster.

BC is Jesuit and they clean up at these Jesuit high schools.

 

[NJCuse97]

Florida players are better, even their average players are better. They play more football. More speed.

It seems dubious to me to worry about recruiting against 25 schools for 1 elite NY kid, or a handful of schools for 1 developmental NY kid; (who plays 9 games a year and then not again until the middle of next August)...

over a kid from Florida who's likely a more finished product, playing a 12 game regular season schedule, as well as a spring season; playing against the best talent in the country (at every classification.)

Getting a mid to high 3-Star Florida kid to NY I'd bet is much easier than getting an elite NY/NJ kid. Us winning that elite Tri-State kid might be 10 or less times over the past 25 years or more.

I don't disagree, but this is where the "winning cures this" argument comes into play finally.

 

[Briancuse]

If you look at where Catholic high school grads go to college it tells a different story. Or better yet check the BC roster.

BC is Jesuit and they clean up at these Jesuit high schools.

Bc does get a lot of catholic school kids but there are kids who get sick of catholic school and want to move on.