The all-inclusive Rutgers dumpster fire thread...

[NJCuse97]

So who from that list could we have really gotten? Many of those kids went to better programs. Several of those kids slipped through the cracks and didn’t even play P5. Those are the under recruited types that we need to find but Shady will overlook. Only a very few came from peer programs. We would need an ace NJ recruiter to consistently bring those kids in with or without Shady at RU.

I cannot argue with either of these statements. The statement I am arguing is that we shouldn't worry or bother with NJ as there are not enough opportunities for us to get good players. I don't think Strickland would have come to SU if Shady were at RU. Rondi? Not too sure. Harris? maybe? Now on the other hand, you can argue all day long that P getting let go was the reason Ray Rice didn't come to SU and you'd probably be right, but would he have gone to RU without Shady or would he have gone to BC or Pitt? That is part of the difference I and others are talking about. He gives an option they have not had.

 

[orangepassion]

Bc does get a lot of catholic school kids but there are kids who get sick of catholic school and want to move on.

They may get catholic school kids, but no more dudes.

 

[NJCuse97]

see, here’s where you lost me. They do offer something different and have for years - you can lose to Ohio State and Michigan by a bazillion points while setting records for offensive futility OR you can play here and beat FSU and Clemson?

I mean Shady can sell the program all he wants and some will buy in - but they’ll need to actually win. While we’ve had our share of one-sided losses. #2 team in a P5 conference is the bar - and Dino has that over Shady, until it changes. It won’t, IMO.

They have not had the combo of the Shady mystique and the lure of the BigTen. Yes they get beat, and while that seems likely to continue even with Shady, it seems likely they will get more competitive. If that happens, he can pitch "we're one player away" and anyone leaning to the bright lights of a game in Happy Valley, The Big House, or The Horseshoe just might be sold. This isn't a pitch that involves beating Louisville on a Friday at SHI house, this is playing in some college football cathedrals. That is something different (not necessarily better, but different) than either we or BC or Pitt can offer. That is something Shady has never been able to offer a Rutgers target. That pitch doesn't require winning... yet.

 

[orangenauburn]

He has his class ranked right behind ours

Jumped up 45 spots since he was hired

His class is similar to ours, in short order

 

[SUfaninAZ]

He has his class ranked right behind ours

Jumped up 45 spots since he was hired

His class is similar to ours, in short order

His class is shite. Look who offered those kids.

 

[NJCuse97]

Again missing the point. SU is drivable but it is very far from local. I have made the trip 6 times a year for 20 years. It isn’t a short drive, especially for families who are more likely to have stops, which I generally avoid. Do you really think a four hour trip is a draw? Even more so when we don’t play Temple, Rutgers, Maryland, Penn State, UConn, West Virginia as often as we used to.

Just being drivable is not going to give us a sizable advantage. Do you really think that makes a difference vs WV, Pitt, BC, MD? RU being local has an advantage. The B1G with northeast schools and a higher football profile is an advantage, even for schools like Purdue. Without an assistant with NJ ties on the staff, it will be very hard to pull anything outside of under the radar kids. We can get kids like Chibane, Davis, Spruill but those aren’t the kids Shady is going after anyway.

Penn State has played us as many times in the last ten years as the previous twenty. The same is true of Maryland. West Virginia is at least 100 miles further from NJ than we are.

Also, I have been saying that Rutgers has something different from us and BC and you've been arguing me, but then say they have a higher football profile an its an advantage. You are arguing my case.

When a four hour drive is the option vs a four hour flight? Yes driving distance is an advantage. And I am not the first to say so. Heck Dino said just last summer that he wants NE kids to stay home. Why would he say that if he didn't see the value in recruiting them? There is money in traveling to recruit. There is less challenge getting camp visits or unofficials from kids within driving distance. There is less concern about homesick kids. There is less concern about panic from southern kids seeing snow for the first time. All I am saying, or have ever said is that NJ is worth recruiting in part because of the talent, but also because of the proximity of that talent to campus. That is an advantage for us over many other schools. We won't win them all, but if we don't try, we won't win any and these are the kids we have a better shot at then going head to head with Miami and FSU in South Florida.

We got Darius, Kevin Johnson, David Tyree, Quinton Spotswood, Johnnie Morant, Kyle Johnson, Eric Downing...
Other than Spotswood, all were drafted, and all are NJ kids. That is intentionally staying in that same 30 year window you referenced above with PSU and Maryland, so this takes out the "advantage" of playing them often.

 

[bpo57]

If you look at where Catholic high school grads go to college it tells a different story. Or better yet check the BC roster.

BC is Jesuit and they clean up at these Jesuit high schools.

That used to be Notre Dame's thing. Back in the day they had first dibs on the best catholic school players. The serious contraction in the # of catholic high schools in operation that has taken place over the last 30-40 years has hurt ND quite a bit.

 

[bnoro]

He has his class ranked right behind ours

Jumped up 45 spots since he was hired

His class is similar to ours, in short order

Yeah, his buddies Mike Farrell & Brian Dohn are already juicing up the rankings to make him look better.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

 

[PhatOrange]

He has his class ranked right behind ours

Jumped up 45 spots since he was hired

His class is similar to ours, in short order

they just got a 2-star recruit with lame-o offers buffalo, James Madison, Elon, Towson, ODU and the rivals article says, quote “The 6-foot 160 pound prospect is technically ranked as a WR prospect for the time being, but Rutgers likes him at a cornerback at the next level.”

so geez let me guess, he’ll be bumped up to a 3-star after he’s re-evaluated as a DB. Since when have they done that?

anyhow they downgraded Kinsler, our 4-star kid to a 3. Same as it ever was.

 

[orangenauburn]

they just got a 2-star recruit with lame-o offers buffalo, James Madison, Elon, Towson, ODU and the rivals article says, quote “The 6-foot 160 pound prospect is technically ranked as a WR prospect for the time being, but a Rutgers likes him at a cornerback at the next level.”

so geez let me guess, he’ll be bumped up to a 3-star ater he’s re-evaluated as a DB. Since when have they done that?

anyhow they downgraded Kinsler, our 4-star kid to a 3. Same as it ever was.

Look at the "3***" DT from Connecticut they just got

 

[Townie72]

That used to be Notre Dame's thing. Back in the day they had first dibs on the best catholic school players. The serious contraction in the # of catholic high schools in operation that has taken place over the last 30-40 years has hurt ND quite a bit.

I dont know where you are getting your numbers from but here in DC and other areas I am familiar with the Catholic high schools are stronger than ever. Driven, of course, with the dissatisfaction with the public alternative.

In DC’s Catholic League, only Archbishop Carroll is on the ropes. The others are bigger and better starting with Good Counsel and now Paul VI which sold their more urban buildings and moved to the outer burbs to huge increase eases in enrollment.

This conference pretty much dominates sports in this area.

 

[CIL]

Yeah, his buddies Mike Farrell & Brian Dohn are already juicing up the rankings to make him look better.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

If you haven’t read Dohn’s Article on Snivley, you should...completely slanted towards Rutgers.

 

[cuseman404]

Yeah, his buddies Mike Farrell & Brian Dohn are already juicing up the rankings to make him look better.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

similar to ours? i think they are much worse, look at the recruits schiano has gotten recently they have literally no p5 offers and they are high 3's

 

[IthacaBarrel]

If you look at where Catholic high school grads go to college it tells a different story. Or better yet check the BC roster.

BC is Jesuit and they clean up at these Jesuit high schools.

Agree, I bet 35-40% of the BC roster is made up of catholic/Jesuit type prep high schools. I would say another 25% is made up of kids from private prep schools with no religious affiliation. It's been that way forever. I don't need to look as my immediate and extended family have plenty of BC grads and the general student population is made up of a ton of kids from these type of schools.

It's where they recruit and its' definitely an advantage at most of these schools without a doubt arguing that it isn't is non sensical.

 

[bpo57]

I dont know where you are getting your numbers from but here in DC and other areas I am familiar with the Catholic high schools are stronger than ever. Driven, of course, with the dissatisfaction with the public alternative.

In DC’s Catholic League, only Archbishop Carroll is on the ropes. The others are bigger and better starting with Good Counsel and now Paul VI which sold their more urban buildings and moved to the outer burbs to huge increase eases in enrollment.

This conference pretty much dominates sports in this area.

Hundreds of catholic high schools have closed over the last 50 years. This is not even up for debate. Now doesn't mean that the remaining catholic schools are still not highly competitive but there is a whole lot less of them than there used to be.

Ever hear of the Parochial League in Syracuse? Ten different catholic schools played some solid hoops in the 50s, 60s and 70s. All of them long gone.

 

[tipphill]

very interesting article article at syracuse,com on reevaluating the class of 2016. a good take away on recruiting is that dino was shut out in the ne region. partly because of a late start. it mentions nys specifically i am not sure why . based on very low acc recruiting status we have trouble everywhere. i hope he does much better

 

[tipphill]

If you look at where Catholic high school grads go to college it tells a different story. Or better yet check the BC roster.

BC is Jesuit and they clean up at these Jesuit high schools.

townie, catholic high schools have been able to "recruit" athletes---not all students who attend parochial schools are or want to be catholic. ---- as a whole their college admission rates for their students is pretty high,

 

[tipphill]

Penn State has played us as many times in the last ten years as the previous twenty. The same is true of Maryland. West Virginia is at least 100 miles further from NJ than we are.

Also, I have been saying that Rutgers has something different from us and BC and you've been arguing me, but then say they have a higher football profile an its an advantage. You are arguing my case.

When a four hour drive is the option vs a four hour flight? Yes driving distance is an advantage. And I am not the first to say so. Heck Dino said just last summer that he wants NE kids to stay home. Why would he say that if he didn't see the value in recruiting them? There is money in traveling to recruit. There is less challenge getting camp visits or unofficials from kids within driving distance. There is less concern about homesick kids. There is less concern about panic from southern kids seeing snow for the first time. All I am saying, or have ever said is that NJ is worth recruiting in part because of the talent, but also because of the proximity of that talent to campus. That is an advantage for us over many other schools. We won't win them all, but if we don't try, we won't win any and these are the kids we have a better shot at then going head to head with Miami and FSU in South Florida.

We got Darius, Kevin Johnson, David Tyree, Quinton Spotswood, Johnnie Morant, Kyle Johnson, Eric Downing...
Other than Spotswood, all were drafted, and all are NJ kids. That is intentionally staying in that same 30 year window you referenced above with PSU and Maryland, so this takes out the "advantage" of playing them often.

i go further back than that. the list from ne,ny/li and nj in particular is even longer.

 

[orange79]

Let's take the Catholic school discussion to the main board or another thread. This thread is designed to make fun of Rutgers, and I will ensure to my dying day it remains that way.

Thanks.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Yeah, his buddies Mike Farrell & Brian Dohn are already juicing up the rankings to make him look better.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

Exactly, the last two commits were a guy who flipped from Bowling Green (only P5 offer was BC an I am sure that wasn't valid anymore) and a Grad Transfer who is coming off three torn ACL's and didn't play last year after transferring from his original school. Its smoke and mirrors all over again.

 

[Townie72]

townie, catholic high schools have been able to "recruit" athletes---not all students who attend parochial schools are or want to be catholic. ---- as a whole their college admission rates for their students is pretty high,

Of course Catholic high schools can recruit and many do. But after four years in that environment, even non-Catholics feel comfortable in Catholic colleges. They recognize that the school and the staff aren’t Government workers who view them differently than what they are accustomed to in high school.

 

[MSOrange]

Let's take the Catholic school discussion to the main board or another thread. This thread is designed to make fun of Rutgers, and I will ensure to my dying day it remains that way.

Thanks.

Thank you. They may have valid points but this was really starting to take the fun out of the whole discussion.

 

[tipphill]

Hundreds of catholic high schools have closed over the last 50 years. This is not even up for debate. Now doesn't mean that the remaining catholic schools are still not highly competitive but there is a whole lot less of them than there used to be.

Ever hear of the Parochial League in Syracuse? Ten different catholic schools played some solid hoops in the 50s, 60s and 70s. All of them long gone.

in syracuse they opened bishop ludden and bishop grimes, and cba began to take female students. i loved the parochial league and played at st.patricks. however in my years( 65-67)we were not very good. it was an awesome league though. packed small gyms with wet smell from all the melting snow on the floors. hot as hell at least at pats etc etc etc.. yup great education, great hoops and great opportunity to get know the people from other schools-------never know how good it things are until they gone.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Exactly, the last two commits were a guy who flipped from Bowling Green (only P5 offer was BC an I am sure that wasn't valid anymore) and a Grad Transfer who is coming off three torn ACL's and didn't play last year after transferring from his original school. Its smoke and mirrors all over again.

But but he is a 4 star!

 

[PhatOrange]

I laid out that NY HS talent is not so good. NJ talent is 10x better and should be tapped as much as possible. I live in NJ and am a college football junkie and I see NJ kids playing for good teams all over the country. If we aren't getting some of that then we're not coming anywhere near maximizing our potential.

I just did a basic analysis of 2-4-7. Here’s what I got.

NJ has a top 100 and no kids ranked past #50 are committed to a P5 school. Here’s their top 25 and where they’re committed to in order of ranking.

Ohio State
Open
Ohio State*
aTm
Michigan***morant
Michigan
Notre Dame
Purdue
aTm
Stanford
BC
Penn State*
West Virginia
Michigan
Miami*
Villanova ?
Notre Dame
Maryland
Rutgers
BC
Pitt
Georgia
Rutgers
Rutgers
Rutgers

*indicates players Syracuse invested time in
***legacy
-The two we have committed Pena, Lowery, are ranked btw 30-35

Florida. Florida has rankings out past 300 kids. There are 11 kids ranked between #200 & #269 committed to Power 5 schools. The last kid at #269 would be ranked #47 in New Jersey. Coincidentally he’s going to Rutgers.

we are bringing in 4 kids from Florida possibly 5. Ranked; #70 ?, #90, #102, #136, #146.

The 5 of them would be ranked in New Jersey at #’s 14, 17, 20, 28 and 30. Big difference. From #90 in FL to #17 in NJ.

here’s the rub, the offers the Florida 5 carry are way beyond their rankings.

in order of ranking:

#70 Kentron Poitier - decides tomorrow between Syracuse, Florida and Florida State. He OV’d to all 3. Offer sheet includes Alabama, Auburn, Miami, Georgia, Michigan, Tennessee, you get the picture

#90 Latarie Kinsler - OV’d to LVille (former Commit) & Nebraska. Offers from Miami, Tennessee, Oregon, Kentucky, Penn State, LSU, Oregon, aTm, Washington, Missouri, Indian, Purdue, Illinois, USC, South Carolina

#102 Damien Alford - OV’d to UVA, cancelled Pitt. Offers from Florida, FSU, Georgia, GT, Kentucky, Miami, NC State, Oklahoma, Penn State, Rutgers, Tennessee, West Virginia, Washington State

#136 Robert Hanna - committed to Syracuse In June and shut it down. No other OVs. Offers - BC, Miami, Maryland, Louisville, Pittsburgh, North Carolina, Rutgers, Washington State

#146 - Ja’Vontae Williams - 1 OV Syr. Kid just qualified about 2 weeks ago. Even with non qual status had received offers from Miami, Oregon, Illinois, Indiana. Could probably make an arguement for a lot more attention had he been a full qualifier all along.

I think it’s clear why we go to Florida and why we don’t put a lot of effort into NJ. (Though we put more effort into NJ early spring until we know where we stand and kids fall out). We’re not winning any of those top 20 kids in NJ who all went to blue bloods outside of a few outliers. we invested a lot of time into several of them to including Morant. They’re not interested so why bother for the scraps when the kids in the other states are better.

N.Y. Our FL kids would be ranked 5, 7, 8, 13 and 18 in New York. But let’s be honest, sporting those offers in NY they would be ranked 1 thru 5.