The alliance scheduling agreement already looks dead in football

[sutomcat]

This wouldn’t be smart. What would stop the Big Ten for sniping Florida State in this scenario. The GOR are protects the ACC as you and others have said.
Get rid of those GOR and watch every ACC team do what is their own best interest.

The Big Ten is doing what will make them more money.
It’s not their responsibility to help the Pac-12 or ACC make more money.

The ACC needs Miami, Florida State, North Carolina to get their chit together.

If the ACC wins the money will follow. Being medicore hurts that.
Swofford effffed the conference.

It’s why the conference needs to do whatever keeps the big dogs happy.

Relax. i was joking.

 

[Chris02M]

this sounds like a you scratch my back ill scratch yours. They want us to support expanded playoffs but we want them to support the no divisions

 

[TheCusian]

The B1G wants to control more inventory.
An extra conference game they own all those games.

The B1G is leaving ESPN and ACC is owned by ESPN.

The ACC would own B1G games which mean less money for the B1G.

They are just saying we would rather get more money for ourselves than get a Clemson, Florida State, Miami, North Carolina, USC, Oregon, UCLA every other year.

It’s not dumb. The B1G already got rid of FCS games.

If they play 12 and 9 are conference games, why can’t 1 of the 3 or 2 of the 3 be alliance games instead of G5 games? 1/2 of those games would be home games adding to the inventory of wherever holds the B1G rights.

The current setup of the SEC (not to mention adding Oklahoma and Texas) gives them the right to claim they are the best conference. If the B1G scrapes a G5 for an ACC opponent, wouldn’t the add to the case for their SOS, thus strengthening the conference?

 

[JimBoston]

If they play 12 and 9 are conference games, why can’t 1 of the 3 or 2 of the 3 be alliance games instead of G5 games? 1/2 of those games would be home games adding to the inventory of wherever holds the B1G rights.

The current setup of the SEC (not to mention adding Oklahoma and Texas) gives them the right to claim they are the best conference. If the B1G scrapes a G5 for an ACC opponent, wouldn’t the add to the case for their SOS, thus strengthening the conference?

Most Big 10 schools are already playing 10 P5 teams every year and some play 11. If you go school by school, you can see the problem of mandating B10 schools to play an Alliance game every year. For example, Iowa plays Iowa St. every year out of conference, but the Big 12 is not in the Alliance. Nebraska plays some old Big 8 foes that are not in the Alliance, Oklahoma and Oklahoma St. Also, some Big 10 schools want to play games against schools like Alabama, Georgia, Notre Dame, Texas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Tennessee,... And, some Big 10 schools play instate schools that are not P5, probably due to some in-state pressures.

 

[HtownOrange]

Gene Smith says he doesn’t think playing annual games against the ACC and Pac-12 would be worth playing only eight Big Ten games and potentially not being able to play non-conference games against teams like Alabama, Texas, Notre Dame, etc.

The B1G is merely playing games to increase their TV deal. Considering the B1G rarely plays Alabama outside of the playoffs, this is a farce of a statement. This is a bargaining ploy. They are opening the door for the "advice" of the networks to see what will pay better. If the networks advise they to play 9 league games, they will. If eight, they play eight. Don't be surprised if the networks want a 13th game. Besides, the B1G can only control X amount of inventory (i.e. the home team), it doesn't matter who the visiting team is and when people tire of the boring inventory, the receipts start dropping. You can only beat up Rutgers so many times before people lose interest. Most B1G fans have already lost interest in visiting Rutgers and making a long weekend in NYC.

Who cares about Iowa v. Minnesota? Most of the B1G doesn't care either. Similar to the SU v. NCState game, most people outside of the the team fans don't care unless there are post-season implications. As it has already been revealed, nobody cares about PAC outside of the PAC (mostly due to late games and bad football). Even the vaunted SEC does not garner much attention outside of the local areas of the two teams playing each other unless the big boys play each other.

My opinion:
Once the SEC takes in two more big boys, and everyone realizes they can still only field a few good teams at a time, things will settle down. The big dollars are being doled out because there is still much more money on the table. Additionally, academics will become an issue. Either academics are important or not; if yes, then the academically minded schools will prevail, if not college sports will be doomed to a quick rise and then a huge crash. The NFL, NBA, and other pro leagues are not going to allow a league to rise close to their levels - in quality, influence, money, power, and popularity. The pro leagues will fight to hold their status and they hold more money and they hold the fact that the schools at least hypothetically are academic institutions.

One reason ESPN wants the ACC is a bulwark against the SEC's lack of academic credibility. ESPN is hedging their bets, the ACC can leave if there is any bad faith acts by ESPN, thus ESPN must pay the ACC to keep it close enough. Ultimately, academics will win out. Either the P5 lacks enough teams to keep the fanbases happy (recall college football is primarily based on the fanbases of local teams) or the P5 is large enough to leverage the power they do have over the SEC: Academics.

Both the ACC and SEC cover the hottest growing areas for the next few decades. The B1G is losing % of the CFB fanbase. The PAC has turned off everyone because they refuse to play early games. The B12 is fading into landscape. The two properties most important are the hot property now and the property which has the most growth potential.

 

[TexanMark]

There aren't really any available. I don't think Big12 teams would leave for the ACC, both conference are comparable, no huge upside.

Cincy and WVU would leave in a NY minute for the ACC

 

[Chip]

Cincy and WVU would leave in a NY minute for the ACC

Add UCF to that list.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Cincy and WVU would leave in a NY minute for the ACC

UCF would as well.

Thinking long term UCF might be the best option as #16 for the ACC. They are a large school in a good TV market, and adds further access to Florida recruits.

I think in the past the conferences preferred UCF to end up like FAU, but that hasn't happened. They are now a legit option for HS Florida kids and that will not change. So why not embrace it? The ACC could have North, Central, and South Florida all covered. IMO that will be an advantage for ACC schools recruiting against the B1G.

SU can go to a kid and say we will play 3x in Florida, plus another 8x in the South. Or you can go play at Rutgers and never play in Florida plus play most of your road games in the cold Midwest.

I know FSU would put up a fight initially but I think they can be persuaded once they look at all the advantages. Plus FSU has no real options outside of the ACC so the threat of them leaving isn't what it was in the past.

I also wouldn't mind the ACC going to 18 by adding Cincy and either WV or Temple. Everyone can have 5 perm rivals and then rotate the other 12 teams over 3 seasons. So 6 seasons to get everyone home and away.

Or even 20 by taking WV/Temple and UConn. Then you can play 4+5/5/5 in football and everyone once plus your main rival 2x in BBall.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Add UCF to that list.

WV is the best brand right now but the gap is closing fast. They are a smaller school than Cincy and a much much much smaller school than UCF. If the potential size of one's fanbase is a factor this is an issue. Their TV market is the worst. They don't add recruiting. They have very passionate fans, but their behavior might be looked down on. And then we have academics. IMO WV is looking like they will be stuck in the B12 (old CUSA). They only way they make the ACC or long shot SEC is if there are no better options. It is ironic that they might get left behind when their internet fanbase told us about all the gazillions of $ they will make.

 

[Chip]

WV is the best brand right now but the gap is closing fast. They are a smaller school than Cincy and a much much much smaller school than UCF. If the potential size of one's fanbase is a factor this is an issue. Their TV market is the worst. They don't add recruiting. They have very passionate fans, but their behavior might be looked down on. And then we have academics. IMO WV is looking like they will be stuck in the B12 (old CUSA). They only way they make the ACC or long shot SEC is if there are no better options. It is ironic that they might get left behind when their internet fanbase told us about all the gazillions of $ they will make.

Agree. The nostalgia in me would love a Syracuse, Pitt, BC, WVU pod in the ACC. But it's not going to happen. They've held onto success longer than I thought they could as an extreme geographic outpost. Last 2 full seasons haven't been very good though.

I would think UCF and/or Cincy brings much more to the table. Best thing UCF ever did was build that on campus stadium.

 

[CousCuse]

Agree. The nostalgia in me would love a Syracuse, Pitt, BC, WVU pod in the ACC. But it's not going to happen. They've held onto success longer than I thought they could as an extreme geographic outpost. Last 2 full seasons haven't been very good though.

I would think UCF and/or Cincy brings much more to the table. Best thing UCF ever did was build that on campus stadium.

ACC doesn't want a third team in Florida. Cincy's market is eaten up by the Bengals and the Buckeyes. WVU has such a bad academic reputation. I guess all three of those schools would prefer ACC to Big12, but I don't think they are terribly unhappy with their current situation.

 

[Alsacs]

ACC doesn't want a third team in Florida. Cincy's market is eaten up by the Bengals and the Buckeyes. WVU has such a bad academic reputation. I guess all three of those schools would prefer ACC to Big12, but I don't think they are terribly unhappy with their current situation.

Start day agreeing with Cous.

Didn’t expect that one.

The ACC isn’t going to expand unless Notre Dame is involved and ND isn’t joining.

If Miami, Florida State, Clemson, get their chit together all at the same time the conference has 3 top 15 programs.

Then mix in North Carolina, Virginia Tech, Louisville and get good seasons from the other programs the conference will make more money.

Football needs consistent top 15 teams from beyond just Clemson.

 

[Chip]

ACC doesn't want a third team in Florida. Cincy's market is eaten up by the Bengals and the Buckeyes. WVU has such a bad academic reputation. I guess all three of those schools would prefer ACC to Big12, but I don't think they are terribly unhappy with their current situation.

The ACC told you that?

Odd that the we need to lock up New England with UMass and UConn guy thinks the Cincy market is eaten up by the Bengals and Buckeyes.

Of course they are happy with their current situation. What other options do they have?

 

[TexanMark]

Add UCF to that list.

Yup totally forgot about them. Like Sal said UCF is a very viable option for FL kids.

They are a bigger brand than USF now. I expect them to increase their capacity to 55K in short order.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Agree. The nostalgia in me would love a Syracuse, Pitt, BC, WVU pod in the ACC. But it's not going to happen. They've held onto success longer than I thought they could as an extreme geographic outpost. Last 2 full seasons haven't been very good though.

I would think UCF and/or Cincy brings much more to the table. Best thing UCF ever did was build that on campus stadium.

They are looking to expand the stadium by 10k seats soon too. And that was playing AAC competition. If they were in the ACC they would sell out 55k no problem. For BBall they might need to move to the Magic's arena for weekend games.

 

[Chip]

Start day agreeing with Cous.

Didn’t expect that one.

The ACC isn’t going to expand unless Notre Dame is involved and ND isn’t joining.

If Miami, Florida State, Clemson, get their chit together all at the same time the conference has 3 top 15 programs.

Then mix in North Carolina, Virginia Tech, Louisville and get good seasons from the other programs the conference will make more money.

Football needs consistent top 15 teams from beyond just Clemson.

All we were discussing is whether the ACC would want Cincy or UCF over WVU. And I think the answer is yes.

But I agree with you, they'll take the door that doesn't involve any of them right now.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Start day agreeing with Cous.

Didn’t expect that one.

The ACC isn’t going to expand unless Notre Dame is involved and ND isn’t joining.

If Miami, Florida State, Clemson, get their chit together all at the same time the conference has 3 top 15 programs.

Then mix in North Carolina, Virginia Tech, Louisville and get good seasons from the other programs the conference will make more money.

Football needs consistent top 15 teams from beyond just Clemson.

We are talking #16 to be paired with Notre Dame. You agree that we should add UMass?

 

[CousCuse]

The ACC told you that?

Odd that the we need to lock up New England with UMass and UConn guy thinks the Cincy market is eaten up by the Bengals and Buckeyes.

Of course they are happy with their current situation. What other options do they have?

I look at this as a Risk board and would lock up regions and build up "armies" on them. UCONN would bring much to both men's and women's basketball, and both are very highly rated public academic institutions.

 

[Alsacs]

We are talking #16 to be paired with Notre Dame. You agree that we should add UMass?

If the ACC got a commitment from ND as 15 then the conference should pick whomever ND wanted as 16 no matter the school.

With ND and those other brands the conference would get a major pay increase.

Cincinnati or Toledo it wouldn’t matter.

Cincinnati if they were valuable would have been picked over Louisville in 2011.

UCF is FS1 to FSU ESPN.

FSU has a 30 year head start. UCF will win a couple of battles but the war is over. UCF will never bring value for a network or ratings for TV.

FSU has fans across the country because of previous success.
UCF will never.

Cous UMass talk is pure trolling. He does it for schtick now to rile people up.

The ACC isn’t expanding.

If ND committed honestly let them pick the 16th team it would be financially worth it.

WVU isn’t getting into the ACC. The cyber rattling their fanbase did had impact and while academics aren’t really anything WVU won’t happen.

 

[Alsacs]

I look at this as a Risk board and would lock up regions and build up "armies" on them. UCONN would bring much to both men's and women's basketball, and both are very highly rated public academic institutions.

Football is what drives expansion.

UConn Basketball is a bonus.

The Big Ten chose Rutgers over UConn.

The ACC chose Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville over UConn.

UConn is dead. They are now a BE school.

 

[CousCuse]

If the ACC got a commitment from ND as 15 then the conference should pick whomever ND wanted as 16 no matter the school.

With ND and those other brands the conference would get a major pay increase.

Cincinnati or Toledo it wouldn’t matter.

Cincinnati if they were valuable would have been picked over Louisville in 2011.

UCF is FS1 to FSU ESPN.

FSU has a 30 year head start. UCF will win a couple of battles but the war is over. UCF will never bring value for a network or ratings for TV.

FSU has fans across the country because of previous success.
UCF will never.

Cous UMass talk is pure trolling. He does it for schtick now to rile people up.

The ACC isn’t expanding.

If ND committed honestly let them pick the 16th team it would be financially worth it.

WVU isn’t getting into the ACC. The cyber rattling their fanbase did had impact and while academics aren’t really anything WVU won’t happen.

If you start from the point of view that Notre Dame is never joining the ACC to a greater extent then they are now, then you can proceed rationally. Don't know why Phillips didn't understand that, but I have my suspicions.

 

[CousCuse]

Football is what drives expansion.

UConn Basketball is a bonus.

The Big Ten chose Rutgers over UConn.

The ACC chose Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville over UConn.

UConn is dead. They are now a BE school.

The board is all but closed out now. I guess the ACC can stand pat, but the B1G and the Big12 still might look to expand.

 

[Alsacs]

The board is all but closed out now. I guess the ACC can stand pat, but the B1G and the Big12 still might look to expand.

Big 12 is below the ACC long term.

The tiers are SEC and B1G

Then ACC and Pac-12

Then Big XII

Then the rest.

The SEC and Big Ten have the contracts they are fine.

The ACC is locked into a stupid contract but as long as they keep their top teams happy will be fine.

The Pac-12 will lag behind and if the ACC got its chit together would make the Pac-12 permanent 4th.

The Big XII will survive losing their crown jewels in Oklahoma and Texas but they will be making decent money that will keep them 5th but it’s centralized in one region without bluebloods now it will be 5th permanently.

The rest of the conferences will fight for the scraps.

 

[Alsacs]

The only game changing piece available is Notre Dame.

They are content with the status quo.

The ACC doesn’t want CFB expansion because they want ND.

The SEC doesn’t care about ND they want more teams from the SEC in the playoffs.

The B1G doesn’t want to help the ACC with ND so they are fine with expansion of CFB as long as ESPN loses it monopoly on it.

The ACC is stuck.
The SEC won’t help with them and the B1G played them.

ND getting CFB expansion means no conference.

The ACC’s only play is to go to the SEC and say we will support playoff expansion without a cap on a conference members in exchange we want language you guys have to propose conference affiliation must be mandatory.

Let the SEC piss off ND and then the ACC will support no limits on conference teams in a playoff.

The SEC could get 5-6 teams in a 12 team playoff And conference membership could force ND’s hands.

I am thinking 3D chess and i doubt the ACC thinks like this.

 

[CousCuse]

Big 12 is below the ACC long term.

The tiers are SEC and B1G

Then ACC and Pac-12

Then Big XII

Then the rest.

The SEC and Big Ten have the contracts they are fine.

The ACC is locked into a stupid contract but as long as they keep their top teams happy will be fine.

The Pac-12 will lag behind and if the ACC got its chit together would make the Pac-12 permanent 4th.

The Big XII will survive losing their crown jewels in Oklahoma and Texas but they will be making decent money that will keep them 5th but it’s centralized in one region without bluebloods now it will be 5th permanently.

The rest of the conferences will fight for the scraps.

That's mostly true. In reality, the Big12 has several potent athletic departments and is competitively equal to the ACC. The ACC standing alone against playoff expansion in the vain hope of forcing Notre Dame to join has really hurt the conference, it has built up some bad will and resentment across the country. They need to get a new plan.