The alliance scheduling agreement already looks dead in football

[Alsacs]

Why would they get more? The playoff era disagrees. The B1G had more Top teams. Oklahoma is joining but you can't have Bama, LSU, UGA and OU all with 2 Ls or less. Someone has to lose.

With a 12 team - 6 conf champ playoff
2021- both would have had 3
2019- both 3
2018- SEC 4, B1G 3
2017- both 3
2016- B1G 4, SEC 1
2015- B1G 3, SEC 1
2014- SEC 3, B1G 2

Total
SEC- 18
B1G- 21

DId you count OU?

And a 9-3 with losses to Oklahoma, Georgia, Alabama but wins over A&M, Florida, Texas will be a bubble playoff team.

The Big Ten doesn’t have that depth.
SEC with Oklahoma and Texas is insanely deep.
Alabama, Georgia, Oklahoma, Texas, LSU, Texas A&M, Florida.
That is just 7 deep.

The conference without a cap on bids per conference could get 5 teams annually.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

DId you count OU?

And a 9-3 with losses to Oklahoma, Georgia, Alabama but wins over A&M, Florida, Texas will be a bubble playoff team.

The Big Ten doesn’t have that depth.
SEC with Oklahoma and Texas is insanely deep.
Alabama, Georgia, Oklahoma, Texas, LSU, Texas A&M, Florida.
That is just 7 deep.

The conference without a cap on bids per conference could get 5 teams annually.

The SEC is insanely deep but that will cause these schools to all have 3 losses. They will get 3-4 teams in the playoff just like the B1G will. With a 3+6/6 you cannot have a bunch of 0, 1, and 2 L teams.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Oklahoma will likely have:

Year1- Okie State, Texas, A&M, Mizzou, Bama, Miss State, Arkansas, UGA, Vandy, Kentucky
Year2- Okie State, Texas, A&M, Mizzou, Auburn, Ole Miss, LSU, Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina

There is no way they get through either of those with less than 3 losses. Going 12-1 will be a pipe dream.

 

[Alsacs]

Oklahoma will likely have:

Year1- Okie State, Texas, A&M, Mizzou, Bama, Miss State, Arkansas, UGA, Vandy, Kentucky
Year2- Okie State, Texas, A&M, Mizzou, Auburn, Ole Miss, LSU, Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina

There is no way they get through either of those with less than 3 losses. Going 12-1 will be a pipe dream.

If they go 9-3 i would consider them for a 12 team playoff.
Over an 10-2 Big Ten team without the good wins.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

If they go 9-3 i would consider them for a 12 team playoff.
Over an 10-2 Big Ten team without the good wins.

If that B1G team only has 2 losses then they will have good wins too. They will get in. Also if OU is 9-3 then Auburn, A&M, etc can't be 9-3 too. That will knock them off the bubble.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Texas would likely have:

Year1- Baylor, Oklahoma, A&M, Arkansas, Bama, Miss State, Mizzou, UGA, Vandy, Kentucky
Year2- Baylor, Oklahoma, A&M, Arkansas, Auburn, Ole Miss, LSU, Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina

vs what they had in the B12:

Baylor, Oklahoma, Okie State, Iowa State, K State, West Virginia, TCU, Texas Tech, Kansas, P5 OOC

 

[WoadBlue]

The Big Ten is staying at 9 conference games to maximize a new TV contract.

They won’t play 9 B1G games and 2 ACC/Pac-12 games every year.

As all of us who know the Big Ten assumed, the BT will never drop a penny in order to advance competition. The BT originated and mastered being a money whore to the detriment of the sport long before Notre Dame acted to become an 'independent Big Ten,' which was what spurred the SEC to join that game.

And so here we are. The BT scorched earth policy is to arrange as much chaos as to 'force' ND to join and/or else to get into the South by destroying the ACC. The latter is the only way that the BT ever can compete as a true equal with SEC football.

The SEC scorched earth policy is to take the most valuable parts of the ACC so the BT cannot ever get a foot into the South.

 

[WoadBlue]

This gets my vote.

Any other vote is worse than a waste of time. But the language is far too mild.

The funniest part will be when ND whores to the BT.

 

[WoadBlue]

It has to grow and add more teams.

More and more, I think ESPN is going to tell the ACC that to get more money, enough to bother, it must scuttle Wake, because Wake is a double revenue drain: easily the smallest school in a major conference and the 4th school in a mid-sized state in the ACC. I think ESPN will say that having Cincy is worth much more money because OH is filled with football fans (and recruits) and UC is a huge school.

 

[nd1973]

Any other vote is worse than a waste of time. But the language is far too mild.

The funniest part will be when ND whores to the BT.

Why is it funny? We can literally join any conference in the country and will go with the highest bidder. If we're giving up independence, might as well get paid. It is coming in the next 10-12 years.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

As all of us who know the Big Ten assumed, the BT will never drop a penny in order to advance competition. The BT originated and mastered being a money whore to the detriment of the sport long before Notre Dame acted to become an 'independent Big Ten,' which was what spurred the SEC to join that game.

And so here we are. The BT scorched earth policy is to arrange as much chaos as to 'force' ND to join and/or else to get into the South by destroying the ACC. The latter is the only way that the BT ever can compete as a true equal with SEC football.

The SEC scorched earth policy is to take the most valuable parts of the ACC so the BT cannot ever get a foot into the South.

If the B1G wanted to go scorched Earth the they would go to 42 teams (7 divisions of 6 teams) and create their own sub division. 8 teams make the playoff. SEC would be left in FBS.

 

[baggerbob]

More and more, I think ESPN is going to tell the ACC that to get more money, enough to bother, it must scuttle Wake, because Wake is a double revenue drain: easily the smallest school in a major conference and the 4th school in a mid-sized state in the ACC. I think ESPN will say that having Cincy is worth much more money because OH is filled with football fans (and recruits) and UC is a huge school.

Dissolve and reform with current schools plus Cincinnati, West Virginia, UCF, USF, Houston, and Memphis. Be the first with 20, 5 pods of 4, or 4 of 5. Get into Ohio, Tennessee, and Texas. Or if you don't want 2 more Florida schools add Oklamoma St, and Iowa St.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

More and more, I think ESPN is going to tell the ACC that to get more money, enough to bother, it must scuttle Wake, because Wake is a double revenue drain: easily the smallest school in a major conference and the 4th school in a mid-sized state in the ACC. I think ESPN will say that having Cincy is worth much more money because OH is filled with football fans (and recruits) and UC is a huge school.

There is no way the old school ACC votes Wake out. UCF has better recruits and is hugher, 2x the size of Cincy.

 

[Hoo's That]

If the B1G wanted to go scorched Earth the they would go to 42 teams (7 divisions of 6 teams) and create their own sub division. 8 teams make the playoff. SEC would be left in FBS.

Dissolve and reform with current schools plus Cincinnati, West Virginia, UCF, USF, Houston, and Memphis. Be the first with 20, 5 pods of 4, or 4 of 5. Get into Ohio, Tennessee, and Texas. Or if you don't want 2 more Florida schools add Oklahoma St, and Iowa St.

To use a line you don't want to hear on a submarine, we're starting to lose the stability bubble. The ACC was formed because the original members thought the Southern Conference was too big. So, now they're going to go into a 42- or 65-team conference? At some point, with all these machinations, some president, chancellor, etc., has to get fed up and pull the plug.

 

[Alsacs]

If ESPN was smart they do what I have said.

Use the SEC to get ND into the ACC.
The SEC won’t care and it would hurt the B1G.

It’s not hard.

If ND ended up in the B1G people like me are happy. ND would get their money but be stuck under Ohio State and Michigan’s thumb in a Midwest landgrand conference.

They would get their money but it would bother old school ND fans.

If ND went with the ACC. The conference would get paid a lot more next contract and be the established 3rd conference.

The Big Ten played the ACC. The ACC needs to realize the status quo isn’t good but atleast forcing ND’s hand gets the end game.

The ACC can’t force ND’s hand but they can if they were actually smart run get the end game via ESPN and the SEC.

 

[Moontan]

Although it will never happen, I’d still prefer an 8-school playoff: 5 P-5 championship winners and a 3-school-per-conference cap.

 

[nd1973]

If ESPN was smart they do what I have said.

Use the SEC to get ND into the ACC.
The SEC won’t care and it would hurt the B1G.

It’s not hard.

If ND ended up in the B1G people like me are happy. ND would get their money but be stuck under Ohio State and Michigan’s thumb in a Midwest landgrand conference.

They would get their money but it would bother old school ND fans.

If ND went with the ACC. The conference would get paid a lot more next contract and be the established 3rd conference.

The Big Ten played the ACC. The ACC needs to realize the status quo isn’t good but atleast forcing ND’s hand gets the end game.

The ACC can’t force ND’s hand but they can if they were actually smart run get the end game via ESPN and the SEC.

I am curious, how would they force us and what would that look like. I want to see if it is plausible.

 

[Chris02M]

Dissolve and reform with current schools plus Cincinnati, West Virginia, UCF, USF, Houston, and Memphis. Be the first with 20, 5 pods of 4, or 4 of 5. Get into Ohio, Tennessee, and Texas. Or if you don't want 2 more Florida schools add Oklamoma St, and Iowa St.

and then you woke up

 

[WoadBlue]

I said before the ACC should dissolve, and join the Big 12, or reform under a new name and negotiate a better contract.

If the ACC were to dissolve and try to create a 'best of' new league with the most valuable Big 12 members, you can count on BC and Wake being dropped. And they would not be the only ACC members dropped.

I think that if such a thing happens, 16 members will be the largest the new league will gamble on.

Football is MUCH bigger than basketball, which means the new league would have to built upon football, first and second and perhaps even third. Football wealth and power are best measured not by wins, not even over the past decade or so, but by average attendance and proven TV drawing power. State Flagship and/or Land Grant schools are always valuable (assuming they have programs they have invested in). States that have proven love of CFB and that produce a lot of football talent are valuable.

Based on the above, the Big 12 schools I would most want in the new league are: TTU, TCU, Baylor, Houston, Oklahoma St, WVU, Cincy, UCF.

KU is all about basketball, and the ACC has more than enough of that. K-St is a #2 school in a small state that produces very little football talent. ISU, which has super fans for both revenue sports, is a #2 school in a small state that produces very little talent. The states of KS and IA bring nothing, and their location is good only for the BT and for the SEC if it wants rivals for Mizzou.

Baylor has a great location in the heart of TX and has top programs in both revenue sports. TTU is a second fiddle A&M, and is out in Lubbuck, but TTU also has top programs in both revenue sports, and its largest alumni base in DFW. TCU is within the extremely important DFW TV market and has had top football and baseball and some hints at good basketball.

I am less certain about Houston than the 3 above, but Houston also could be a top school in both revenue sports.

Ok St is a Land Grant school and has many alums across TX. Ok St also has Pickens as major sports booster.

WVU has very passionate fans in both revenue sports and if playing a mostly ACC schedule would add passion to the league. WVU has significant TV fan bases in Baltimore/DC, across VA, Pittsburgh, Charlotte, and southern OH.

Cincy is the overall #2 school and sports school in a large state filled with lovers of CFB and with football talent.

I think that the very best the ACC could do in saving ACC members while trying to forge a 16 team new league is to get WVU, Cincy, TTU, TCU, Baylor, and Ok St. Then the ACC would need to cut 2 more in addition to Wake and BC.

 

[Alsacs]

I am curious, how would they force us and what would that look like. I want to see if it is plausible.

To be eligible for the CFB you must be in a conference.

If that was a rule ND would join a conference.
The ACC can’t propose this.
The SEC could.

 

[WoadBlue]

I am curious, how would they force us and what would that look like. I want to see if it is plausible.

I think you are stuck on the word 'force.' If ND wishes to play a schedule of crap, it wouldn't be in the ACC now. But changing conference sizes did 'force' ND to become half a member of ACC football.

I think that the BT and SEC both intend to see a total change in Major College football, and ND as a full independent is not going to remain a major force in those two get their way.

ND is before long going to be a full football member of some league.

 

[nd1973]

I think you are stuck on the word 'force.' If ND wishes to play a schedule of crap, it wouldn't be in the ACC now. But changing conference sizes did 'force' ND to become half a member of ACC football.

I think that the BT and SEC both intend to see a total change in Major College football, and ND as a full independent is not going to remain a major force in those two get their way.

ND is before long going to be a full football member of some league.

I agree we will join a conference within the next 10-12 years. I just was trying to see how it would work in the short term not long term. The younger fans are more open to membership, and ten years allows that shift to take place. Short term, I do not see it.

 

[nd1973]

To be eligible for the CFB you must be in a conference.

If that was a rule ND would join a conference.
The ACC can’t propose this.
The SEC could.

That is not likely to occur, but that is a remote possibility I guess. The SEC would care if we joined the Big 10 because it would shift the balance a little more. For your plan to work it has to be the ACC or Pac.

 

[WoadBlue]

Why is it funny? We can literally join any conference in the country and will go with the highest bidder. If we're giving up independence, might as well get paid. It is coming in the next 10-12 years.

Because, in part, that reveals that ND is just the whore its detractors have always asserted. And in part because ND in the BT will be revealed as just a small private school. ND will be subsumed by the huge Land Grant league. ND will have about as much power as Northwestern.

Texas, even being a huge Flagship, is going to find out very quickly that it cannot hope to ever have power remotely close to what it had in the Big 12.

 

[WoadBlue]

That is not likely to occur, but that is a remote possibility I guess. The SEC would care if we joined the Big 10 because it would shift the balance a little more. For your plan to work it has to be the ACC or Pac.

SEC football dominance would not be hurt a single jot by ND joining the BT. The only thing that could make BT football the equal of SEC football is the BT becoming planted firmly in the South. That means adding the states of VA, NC, SC, GA, and FL.