The arms race and what we're dealing with here:

[Moontan]

I'm not sure if student managers and walk ons count.

Cheerleaders and "recruiting hosts" probably do.

 

[kingottoiii]

You pretty much agreed with all that I wrote.

• "3/4 of those teams we do not recruit against" --

Our bread and butter will always be NE kids. Most of the ACC won't be going for anything but big name NE kids.

• "Kids outside of the NE go to SU to either get away or because they are over looked. Facilities for them isn't the major factor." --

So you are saying Geno Smith went to WV because of facilities? We both know that answer is no. SU will recruit kids from South but those kids who consider SU will not have facilities as their top factor. If they did then they would just stay home.

• "Kids in the NE are under recruited and do not get to calls from schools with the nice digs." --

The big name kids will always be looked at by bigger programs. But in general the NE is not as heavily mined as other places (NJ is an exception as it is over recruited). There are plenty of good FB players that go overlooked in the NE. Those are the kids that the program needs to be built on. Just look at the kids HCRE put into the pros at UConn.

• "We are comparable to who we recruit against" -- Okay, so let's take the ACC and plug in regional rivalries instead.

Like us all those schools are behind in the game compared to the rest of the country. We are slightly behind them but as long as we use ACC $ to pull even we will be fine. If the plan is to spend the ACC money I have no issue with SU. If the plan is to stash the money then our program will die. Either way there is nothing we can do about it now.

 

[Millhouse]

I agree with you that we need to improve what we have. So far we have done a medicore job at best with that. However, there are also a lot of assumptions in your post, and I strongly disagree with a lot of them.

• "3/4 of those teams we do not recruit against" -- I would add that we do in fact recruit against a decent chunk of them, and will be recruiting against most of them in the future. Teams tend to recruit against teams from within their conference. That is an undeniable fact. Currently our biggest competitors as it stands right now are Penn ST, Pitt, RU, UCONN, and probably BC. 4 out of the 5 are in a major BCS conference. Take a kid like Gus Edwards, who is the type of high 3 star lengthy athlete we need more of. Offers from SU, BC, Uconn, Maryland, Miami, FSU (supposedly but I have my doubts), Pitt, Purdue, RU, temple, UCF, and UVA. Throw out FSU and that's 5 ACC schools. In our heyday we ran up against UVA (Ogletree, Ferguson), MD, and VPI all the time.
• "Kids outside of the NE go to SU to either get away or because they are over looked. Facilities for them isn't the major factor." -- I can't tell if this is serious or not. My guess is it is. We certainly aren't going to get 4 or 5 star recruits from GA or FL hand over fist. I get that, but once again, at our zenith we landed some very solid recruits from FL (Abrams, etc.). WVU was able to land Geno Smith from Miami who had offers from bama, Clemson, LSU, Mich, etc. Same for Teddy Bridgewater at the Ville. It happens.
• "Kids in the NE are under recruited and do not get to calls from schools with the nice digs." -- This is patently false. Tell that to Ishaq (ND), Ebo, Easley (UF), Gronkowski (Zona), Daquan Jones (PSU), Skov (Standford), Dukes (PSU), Paulus 1 and 2, etc. That's just NY. The top two kids in Mass last year went to Ohio St. Don't get me started about Pennsylvania or New Jersey, who send kids to major powers year in and year out.
• "We are comparable to who we recruit against" -- Okay, so let's take the ACC and plug in regional rivalries instead.

1. RU: http://www.scarletknights.com/football/stadium/hale.asp
2. Pitt: http://www.pittsburghpanthers.com/facilities/pitt-facilities-upmc.html (note: they have their own massive locker room at Heinz as well, state of the art)
3. PSU: http://www.gopsusports.com/facilities/lasch-building.html
4. UCONN: http://www.uconnhuskies.com/facilities/burton-family-complex.html
5. BC: http://www.bceagles.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/yawkey-centerNEW.html
6. WVU: http://www.wvusports.com/page.cfm?section=7924

Out of that list, I'd say the only one we are superior to is BC at this point in time.

maybe it'll be cheaper for us to get better lamps and better photographers

i'm sure there are differences in facilities but i don't have the same reaction seeing different pictures. there are threads where people say WILL YOU LOOK AT SUCH AND SUCH jpeg and i shrug

like the bc locker room. ok some guy did a panarama shot with an iphone and it's red and yellow. there is a weight room. it has weights. ok.

the burton family complex. there's a pool table and a value city armchair. good for them

i don't get it. i'd like to hear people really sort what the big gaps are 80/20 type stuff

 

[PhatOrange]

Where are those pictures of our new lounge?

 

[orangeinjersey]

Here are the pics of the old stuff. SU disabled the links, but not the pages themselves. I think most of this was corrected during this past summer and fall right? I know the lounge, cafe and locker rooms def were. Not sure about everything else.

http://www.suathletics.com/sports/2011/4/12/FB_0412112617.aspx

 

[Millhouse]

Here are the pics of the old stuff. SU disabled the links, but not the pages themselves. I think most of this was corrected during this past summer and fall right? I know the lounge, cafe and locker rooms def were. Not sure about everything else.

http://www.suathletics.com/sports/2011/4/12/FB_0412112617.aspx[/quote]

what a stupid webpage

HELP WE NEED MONEY LOOK AT HOW MUCH BETTER OUR COMPETITION IS

complete with a close up picture of a metal tub with a goddamn tracphone

I could go to *cking texas and let my one year old take a blurry picture of some bacon stripped sh!tter and say ZOMG they're in shambles!

 

[CIL]

I've been in ours. It's pretty bad Milly.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Universities often find their most effective fundraisers, as well as donors, among their Board of Trustees. Who are the Trustees at SU? Well, there are a lot more of them than I thought there were until opening this link. There are also more than 50 "Life Trustees". Take a look:

https://trustees.syr.edu/Public/SitePages/Trustees.aspx

Recognize any names? I recognize quite a few. How many are actively involved in the university and how many are dead wood? Who knows. Some of these folks that I can identify have sizeable personal fortunes. Others may be relative run-of-the-mill millionaires but have access to corporate funds. Mel Holm, late Chairman of the Board at Carrier, was nicely compensated by not what I would call a rich man. He was able to bring $2.75 million in corporate money to the table for naming rights to the Dome, however.

How are our current Trustees being asked to support (and I don't mean just financial support) fundraisimng efforts for the Athletics Department?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Can't we just make the Dome our primary practice facility? Build a weight room somewhere in there? Tell M+W lax they have to go outside for their practices in the spring when we have spring ball? To be honest the mens lacrosse program has underachieved by our standards and embarrassed itself the last few years and I think practicing outside is just what they need.


You can probably find somewhere to put a wieght room and the saunas and stuff in the lower level of the dome. If not you can just build a wing onto it with that stuff the side of the Geology building. With the new field turf it won't cost us recruits. Thursday and Friday night games on TV are a must Dr Gross needs to get 2-3 of these every year and are great things to sell recruits they all want to be on TV when everyone is watching.

Marrone should be ripshit if he ever asks to use the Dome for practice and gets told no because another sport apart from MBB is using it. The girls bb can play 1-2 games a year there they are more suited to Archbold than Manley let alone the Dome.

Because long-term, the University sees that land as too valuable for academic purposes. They want more academic buildings in that footprint. And frankly, moving the stadium to where there is much better parking would make a lot of sense, and make the game day experience much better for fans.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Seems like big monied donors just simply care more about hoops.

How many freaking guys have we put in the NFL ? I don't understand why more of them have failed to donate.

 

[Scooch]

How many freaking guys have we put in the NFL ? I don't understand why more of them have failed to donate.

They're not the one's that are going to donate multi-millions, though. For most any school, really. Carmelo was a huge outlier.

I'm talking about business people.

 

[Bayside44]

How many freaking guys have we put in the NFL ? I don't understand why more of them have failed to donate.

That have been 8 figure earners? McNabb, Freeney, maybe Harrison, maybe Bullock, but the Steve Gregory's of the word cannot drop 500k like that.

 

[Scooch]

That have been 8 figure earners? McNabb, Freeney, maybe Harrison, maybe Bullock, but the Steve Gregory's of the word cannot drop 500k like that.

Would awesome would it be if Harrison ponied up a few million?! Besides being an aloof freak who doesn't even admit going to SU, it'd be amazing to have the Marvin Harrison Football Center.

We could call it "The Shot".

 

[rrlbees]

Universities often find their most effective fundraisers, as well as donors, among their Board of Trustees. Who are the Trustees at SU? Well, there are a lot more of them than I thought there were until opening this link. There are also more than 50 "Life Trustees". Take a look:

https://trustees.syr.edu/Public/SitePages/Trustees.aspx

Recognize any names? I recognize quite a few. How many are actively involved in the university and how many are dead wood? Who knows. Some of these folks that I can identify have sizeable personal fortunes. Others may be relative run-of-the-mill millionaires but have access to corporate funds. Mel Holm, late Chairman of the Board at Carrier, was nicely compensated by not what I would call a rich man. He was able to bring $2.75 million in corporate money to the table for naming rights to the Dome, however.

How are our current Trustees being asked to support (and I don't mean just financial support) fundraisimng efforts for the Athletics Department?

Art Monk is on the facilities committee.

 

[Millhouse]

I've been in ours. It's pretty bad Milly.

ok. what are your priorities and what are your wildass guesses for costs?

for those of us not familiar with this stuff, i just see a lot of posts short on specifics and prioritization.

 

[orangeinjersey]

ok. what are your priorities and what are your wildass guesses for costs?

for those of us not familiar with this stuff, i just see a lot of posts short on specifics and prioritization.

I was looking for old pics of the previous indoor facility design. I came accross an article in PS that interviewed gross, and said that the recent renos to Manley offices, longe, cafe, strenghth etc would cost $4M. Now, I am not sure we did reno all that stuff i linked in that donation page, I know a poster here had the bid package, so maybe they or someone who has toured the facilities knows what has and hasnt been done.

 

[Millhouse]

I was looking for old pics of the previous indoor facility design. I came accross an article in PS that interviewed gross, and said that the recent renos to Manley offices, longe, cafe, strenghth etc would cost $4M. Now, I am not sure we did reno all that stuff i linked in that donation page, I know a poster here had the bid package, so maybe they or someone who has toured the facilities knows what has and hasnt been done.

My bet is that Gross hasn't done any of this homework and doesn't do a great job selling the BOT the value of any of this. He seems like the type that shoots for the moon on everything and wants a blank check.

 

[GoSU96]

We need a melo center for football, quote]

Good lord, no we don't. State of the art training and rehab, and modern offices, meeting rooms, and lockerrooms and practice space. That doesn't mean it has to be a best in breed.

Nobody is asking for an SEC/Big12 monstrosity.

 

[Rocco]

Kentucky has to allow for a certain # of students from the general population to live in the bball dorm along with the players.

I have a strong inkling about this:

 

[CIL]

ok. what are your priorities and what are your wildass guesses for costs?

for those of us not familiar with this stuff, i just see a lot of posts short on specifics and prioritization.

Well, we shouldn't have done the current stuff on the cheap, but we kind of did. We should have done it right. So without redoing the locker room yet again, players lounge, etc.

1. Training Room is a must. Ours is absolutely abysmal. We for prehab and rehab a hydrotherapy tub is pretty much the norm these days (see the Melo Center). We do not have one at this point.

2. Indoor Facility -- I know I know, we have the Dome, we have the Manley retrofit. Dome is too far away, and Manley is shared with a lot of teams.

3. Dome locker rooms -- awful.

, throw out the Indoor Facility and you could do those two for 4-5 Million bucks. I know Temple just did the cosmetics plus weight room for 10 million.

I don't expect a recruit lounge, new stadium retractable roof, club level seating, etc. But I do have issues with the way the current renovations were done. We should have done it properly with ample expansion onto Manley, rather than just the cosmetic stuff.

 

[Millhouse]

Well, we shouldn't have done the current stuff on the cheap, but we kind of did. We should have done it right. So without redoing the locker room yet again, players lounge, etc.

1. Training Room is a must. Ours is absolutely abysmal. We for prehab and rehab a hydrotherapy tub is pretty much the norm these days (see the Melo Center). We do not have one at this point.

2. Indoor Facility -- I know I know, we have the Dome, we have the Manley retrofit. Dome is too far away, and Manley is shared with a lot of teams.

3. Dome locker rooms -- awful.

****, throw out the Indoor Facility and you could do those two for 4-5 Million bucks. I know Temple just did the cosmetics plus weight room for 10 million.

I don't expect a recruit lounge, new stadium retractable roof, club level seating, etc. But I do have issues with the way the current renovations were done. We should have done it properly with ample expansion onto Manley, rather than just the cosmetic stuff.

OK so do 1 and 3. 2 is a tough sell. You could have dedicated limos driving players back and forth to the dome for less than the cost of a 3rd indoor football field.

 

[upperdeck]

if all the fball alums together could come up with 4-5 million something would happen.. we have one alum right now making almost 2 million a year.. same initials as mcnabb.. freeney made 19 million last year, harrison was making 10-15 million when he retired. Mncabb net worth is 35 million . Carter is making 2.5 a year. Gregory has a 7 million deal now. Williams is making 3 million a yr. gary anderson played 20 yrs. bullock made 5-6 million for several years, darius was making 4 million plus when he retired. greenwood played 10 years . chandler is making big bucks .

I know the guys who last 2-3 years dont have throw away money.. but you would think we have enough to give 1-200 K and that would add up.. maybe they already have but the freeney/jones center for DE would have a nice ring.

 

[GoSU96]

Well, we shouldn't have done the current stuff on the cheap, but we kind of did. We should have done it right. So without redoing the locker room yet again, players lounge, etc.

1. Training Room is a must. Ours is absolutely abysmal. We for prehab and rehab a hydrotherapy tub is pretty much the norm these days (see the Melo Center). We do not have one at this point.

2. Indoor Facility -- I know I know, we have the Dome, we have the Manley retrofit. Dome is too far away, and Manley is shared with a lot of teams.

3. Dome locker rooms -- awful.

****, throw out the Indoor Facility and you could do those two for 4-5 Million bucks. I know Temple just did the cosmetics plus weight room for 10 million.

I don't expect a recruit lounge, new stadium retractable roof, club level seating, etc. But I do have issues with the way the current renovations were done. We should have done it properly with ample expansion onto Manley, rather than just the cosmetic stuff.

My thoughts with that is that they needed to do something quick and dirty right away, and not worry about the work/dollars made wasted in the long term.

Not having a dedicated indoor facility is a PITA but can be worked around. The training and rehab stuff must come first.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Well, we shouldn't have done the current stuff on the cheap, but we kind of did. We should have done it right. So without redoing the locker room yet again, players lounge, etc.

1. Training Room is a must. Ours is absolutely abysmal. We for prehab and rehab a hydrotherapy tub is pretty much the norm these days (see the Melo Center). We do not have one at this point.

2. Indoor Facility -- I know I know, we have the Dome, we have the Manley retrofit. Dome is too far away, and Manley is shared with a lot of teams.

3. Dome locker rooms -- awful.

****, throw out the Indoor Facility and you could do those two for 4-5 Million bucks. I know Temple just did the cosmetics plus weight room for 10 million.

I don't expect a recruit lounge, new stadium retractable roof, club level seating, etc. But I do have issues with the way the current renovations were done. We should have done it properly with ample expansion onto Manley, rather than just the cosmetic stuff.

I would do a new indoor facility, locker rooms and player lounge And give the newly renovated locker room to lax

 

[Millhouse]

My thoughts with that is that they needed to do something quick and dirty right away, and not worry about the work/dollars made wasted in the long term.

Not having a dedicated indoor facility is a PITA but can be worked around. The training and rehab stuff must come first.

there's your bang for your buck

similar to field turf. not that big an expense. critical to recruits' parents

needing a third indoor facility because one is a mile away and the other is shared waaah. huge expense. not critical to recruits' parents

BOT just write the freaking check already for the small stuff.