The balanced view

[CuseTG2003]

I said this 10 years ago. Ryan Cabiles has been here for 15? 20 years? The guys who put on good muscle and were in peak physical condition tended to do it on their own. The last guy I remember making a drastic change in his body composition was Fab his sophomore year.

Our biggest portal addition is out of shape. That says it all and not just about S&C.

 

[Scooch]

I consider myself invested enough to use it and did so intentionally. Taking a little ownership, and trying to hold off joining the emotional Fire Red chorus until I try some rational analysis and root cause investigation. Have to answer the “and then?” question before making a change for change sake.

I'll only push back on the bolded. If this season heads off into the abyss, and I truly hope it doesn't, then making a change at head coach would not be "for change sake".

That scenario wouldn't be like a hockey team ditching a coach early in the season to switch up the vibes. That's a change for change's sake.

Rather, the scenario we're discussing would be a change because the results are severely below any logical standard.

 

[RF2044]

I have been the biggest Red supporter on here but something about this program is terribly broken. There’s just no two ways about it anymore. The fact that we are not even using our full allotment of ACs is indicative of that.

None of our players have shown any discernible improvement in their skillsets. In fact everyone seems to have taken steps backwards. We have our 300 pound center catching the ball 20 feet from the hoop in order to “start the offense”. Our “shooters” don’t move to get open. Our defense is impossibly bad. And yet we keep doing the same thing.

Time to find our Fran Brown

I appreciate how difficult it must have been through to make that post.

 

[chuck]

I think we have adapted poorly to the new normal in college basketball. We vastly underestimated the size of the NIL war chest we needed. We took a conservative approach by waiting until players entered the portal before reaching out. Yes, I know that's the rule but the high profile transfers are locked in to their new destination including compensation before their names are released. We were breaking in a new head coach who, though universally acclaimed as the right man for the job by the coaching community, media and search firm we apparently surreptitiously hired, was expected to have some type of learning curve then lost his lieutenant to a HC job of his own. Now we're in a perfect storm where we may not have a single player who is performing to their previous levels and have our best player out for what looks to be a longer than expected injury issue.

Add in what turned out to be a bear of a non conference schedule and we all see the results.

There are reasons for optimism. The Kline hire is making us much more proactive in the transfer market. There is already a list of potential candidates. HS recruiting is looking very good and Englestad is using his foreign connections to link us with potentially lower cost high end talent from overseas. And Melo sounds like he is all in to assist in the fund raising efforts to advance NIL needs.

Expect a very busy offseason with at least three open scholarships, sure to be more with attrition. Also expect us to fill at least one of the two available assistant coaching positions. Not sure if Red was being a good soldier saying he could get by on the old limit of three but most P4s have 4 or the full allotment of 5 assistant coaches now.

Going to be a tough couple of months, and no false illusions here, but I look forward to seeing this team improve and, though it's not easy, can still see some light at the end of the tunnel.

You get what the posters on here wanted. They want nil they want players playing at 4 different schools in there career they want the game to be watered down and only about ones self and not the sport or team.

 

[AZOrange]

I appreciate how difficult it must have been through to make that post.

Awful

 

[kcsu]

I consider myself invested enough to use it and did so intentionally. Taking a little ownership, and trying to hold off joining the emotional Fire Red chorus until I try some rational analysis and root cause investigation. Have to answer the “and then?” question before making a change for change sake.

We are going through a very difficult time and many are looking for a scapegoat. Red did a very good job last year. This year is bad and he deserves some of the blame but not all of it. Baring something beyond loses he will get a third year.
Not sure if everyone on this board truly understands the importance of Melos son committing to Syracuse. Simply put it is enormous. Way more important than hiring a new coach especially a mid major or lower one. Short of a something like the Jay or Mark taking over NOTHING comes close to Team Melo getting involved. Hopefully the JJ injury helps and hopefully Red pulls out a few more wins because we can't mess this up. We need Melos support more than any other thing in order to turn this mess around.

 

[Cuse4403]

We are going through a very difficult time and many are looking for a scapegoat. Red did a very good job last year. This year is bad and he deserves some of the blame but not all of it. Baring something beyond loses he will get a third year.
Not sure if everyone on this board truly understands the importance of Melos son committing to Syracuse. Simply put it is enormous. Way more important than hiring a new coach especially a mid major or lower one. Short of a something like the Jay or Mark taking over NOTHING comes close to Team Melo getting involved. Hopefully the JJ injury helps and hopefully Red pulls out a few more wins because we can't mess this up. We need Melos support more than any other thing in order to turn this mess around.

Team Melo takes their ball and goes home if another coach is brought in? I honestly don't know. What if they are consulted on the next coach? I understand the importance of Team Melo, but what if Freeman and Moore decide to go somewhere else after this mess of a season and we win 15 games next year? Is Team Melo more important than putting the program in a deeper hole?

 

[grepal]

I think we have adapted poorly to the new normal in college basketball. We vastly underestimated the size of the NIL war chest we needed. We took a conservative approach by waiting until players entered the portal before reaching out. Yes, I know that's the rule but the high profile transfers are locked in to their new destination including compensation before their names are released. We were breaking in a new head coach who, though universally acclaimed as the right man for the job by the coaching community, media and search firm we apparently surreptitiously hired, was expected to have some type of learning curve then lost his lieutenant to a HC job of his own. Now we're in a perfect storm where we may not have a single player who is performing to their previous levels and have our best player out for what looks to be a longer than expected injury issue.

Add in what turned out to be a bear of a non conference schedule and we all see the results.

There are reasons for optimism. The Kline hire is making us much more proactive in the transfer market. There is already a list of potential candidates. HS recruiting is looking very good and Englestad is using his foreign connections to link us with potentially lower cost high end talent from overseas. And Melo sounds like he is all in to assist in the fund raising efforts to advance NIL needs.

Expect a very busy offseason with at least three open scholarships, sure to be more with attrition. Also expect us to fill at least one of the two available assistant coaching positions. Not sure if Red was being a good soldier saying he could get by on the old limit of three but most P4s have 4 or the full allotment of 5 assistant coaches now.

Going to be a tough couple of months, and no false illusions here, but I look forward to seeing this team improve and, though it's not easy, can still see some light at the end of the tunnel.

I like half full glasses too.

 

[wiCuse]

We are going through a very difficult time and many are looking for a scapegoat. Red did a very good job last year. This year is bad and he deserves some of the blame but not all of it. Baring something beyond loses he will get a third year.
Not sure if everyone on this board truly understands the importance of Melos son committing to Syracuse. Simply put it is enormous. Way more important than hiring a new coach especially a mid major or lower one. Short of a something like the Jay or Mark taking over NOTHING comes close to Team Melo getting involved. Hopefully the JJ injury helps and hopefully Red pulls out a few more wins because we can't mess this up. We need Melos support more than any other thing in order to turn this mess around.

Is the inability to coach a scapegoat? All of our shortcomings this season lead back to Red (that includes JJ's injury, which further exposes his in game coaching and game planning). I agree that Team Melo is huge, but isn't that only a 3 or 4 year deal? Melo seems like too smart of a guy with his on and off the court success to see what's going on here. I'd like to understand how Team Melo covers up all of Red's warts.

 

[Scooch]

Not sure if everyone on this board truly understands the importance of Melos son committing to Syracuse. Simply put it is enormous. Way more important than hiring a new coach especially a mid major or lower one. Short of a something like the Jay or Mark taking over NOTHING comes close to Team Melo getting involved. Hopefully the JJ injury helps and hopefully Red pulls out a few more wins because we can't mess this up. We need Melos support more than any other thing in order to turn this mess around.

Then please tell us, in detail. why it is so important.

Is it money? Is Carmelo going to heavily invest in NIL and facilities for SU? Will that investment continue after his son leaves in a year or two? Is he going to funnel 5-star players to SU? Endow scholarships or coaching/staff positions?

I'm not singling you out kcsu , I'm just continuing my new crusade to get people to actually be transparent instead of coyly alluding to insider things that are "enormous" but won't be spoken of. That s h! t has driven me nuts for years and its gotta stop.

 

[CuseCPT]

We played the team that was the pre-season projected 10th best team in the B10 on a neutral court and lost by 27 to a team that let up on the gas pedal against us. This was not a fluke, this is the state of Syracuse basketball. The light at the end of the tunnel is there alright, but it's an oncoming train.

 

[sugrad68]

I have been watching Syracuse basketball since 1966 and this team, without JJ, is the worst team I have seen on the court for Syracuse over that time period. No offensive continuity against good teams. Worst defensive team ever. Autry got 2 good Freshman recruits this year and has 2 coming in next year. The big question is whether or not Freeman and/or Moore return next year. Autry got a number of players through the portal but none have excelled. Lampkin plays hard and is more of an offensive threat than any other recent Syracuse center but is not an enforcer on defense, which we need. Let's see what happens the rest of the year, although my expectations are not high, and give Autry a 3rd year to turn it around.

 

[tptcuse]

We are going through a very difficult time and many are looking for a scapegoat. Red did a very good job last year. This year is bad and he deserves some of the blame but not all of it. Baring something beyond loses he will get a third year.
Not sure if everyone on this board truly understands the importance of Melos son committing to Syracuse. Simply put it is enormous. Way more important than hiring a new coach especially a mid major or lower one. Short of a something like the Jay or Mark taking over NOTHING comes close to Team Melo getting involved. Hopefully the JJ injury helps and hopefully Red pulls out a few more wins because we can't mess this up. We need Melos support more than any other thing in order to turn this mess around.

Do we have reason to believe that Team Melo is coming here because of Red? I watched Kiyan’s entire announcement show and don’t remember hearing Red’s name even once. (There were general references to the staff and rebuilding the program.)

 

[Orangezoo]

We are going through a very difficult time and many are looking for a scapegoat. Red did a very good job last year. This year is bad and he deserves some of the blame but not all of it. Baring something beyond loses he will get a third year.
Not sure if everyone on this board truly understands the importance of Melos son committing to Syracuse. Simply put it is enormous. Way more important than hiring a new coach especially a mid major or lower one. Short of a something like the Jay or Mark taking over NOTHING comes close to Team Melo getting involved. Hopefully the JJ injury helps and hopefully Red pulls out a few more wins because we can't mess this up. We need Melos support more than any other thing in order to turn this mess around.

What if he fails with Kiyan next year and Kiyan transfers and Melos support and interest in the program goes with because of how badly things were mismanaged from a coaching standpoint? Is that not equally a big gamble?

What do you see on the court that represents a sign that this staff can get it done with more talent?

 

[DilemaCuse]

Back to the OP, I cant disagree with the detailed post except for this line,
though universally acclaimed as the right man for the job by the coaching community, media and search firm we apparently surreptitiously hired.

If he was universally acclaimed, other programs would have been wanting to interview him from 2018-2022. That wasn't the case, his name never popped up for other jobs unlike Hop who interviewed at Bonaventure and USC. There was no market for Red outside of Syracuse because the program was declining. IF this promotion didnt work out fans would immediately question it partially due to this fact.

 

[OptimusOtto]

What if he fails with Kiyan next year and Kiyan transfers and Melos support and interest in the program goes with because of how badly things were mismanaged from a coaching standpoint? Is that not equally a big gamble?

What do you see on the court that represents a sign that this staff can get it done with more talent?

Your last sentence is the key. I normally have orange colored glasses but we’re so lifeless and disorganized. There’s been nothing to say the structure is there, we’re just short on talent.

 

[kcsu]

Team Melo takes their ball and goes home if another coach is brought in? I honestly don't know. What if they are consulted on the next coach? I understand the importance of Team Melo, but what if Freeman and Moore decide to go somewhere else after this mess of a season and we win 15 games next year? Is Team Melo more important than putting the program in a deeper hole?

What if Red is fired. Melos kid goes to USC, the 5 star bolts, Donnie and Choppa transfer, and Melo closes the door on Syracuse because he no longer has any connections?
Save this post. Because the above is pretty much exactly what will happen.
The other scenario is Red is retained. One or more new assistant coaches are added.
Melos kid, Donnie, Choppa, 5 star and two studs out of the portal are added because Melo steps up with NIL money. Syracuse is relevant because of Team Melo on Social media. His circle is at games...
There is a buzz about SU again. We are getting a basketball version of what CU got in football.
If Red is gone this is gone as well.
I see your point but Personally I lean towards giving Red one more year in order to Keep Melo and all he brings .

 

[tptcuse]

What if Red is fired. Melos kid goes to USC, the 5 star bolts, Donnie and Choppa transfer, and Melo closes the door on Syracuse because he no longer has any connections?
Save this post. Because the above is pretty much exactly what will happen.
The other scenario is Red is retained. One or more new assistant coaches are added.
Melos kid, Donnie, Choppa, 5 star and two studs out of the portal are added because Melo steps up with NIL money. Syracuse is relevant because of Team Melo on Social media. His circle is at games...
There is a buzz about SU again. We are getting a basketball version of what CU got in football.
If Red is gone this is gone as well.
I see your point but Personally I lean towards giving Red one more year in order to Keep Melo and all he brings .

As much as I’m frustrated with the team and coaching, I agree with you on this post. But only IF we know that what you are saying is true that Melo and Co would leave with a different coach. What if it’s the other way around? What if they agree with the people who believe Red is a very nice guy who struggles with being the head coach?

 

[sufan59]

We are going through a very difficult time and many are looking for a scapegoat. Red did a very good job last year. This year is bad and he deserves some of the blame but not all of it. Baring something beyond loses he will get a third year.
Not sure if everyone on this board truly understands the importance of Melos son committing to Syracuse. Simply put it is enormous. Way more important than hiring a new coach especially a mid major or lower one. Short of a something like the Jay or Mark taking over NOTHING comes close to Team Melo getting involved. Hopefully the JJ injury helps and hopefully Red pulls out a few more wins because we can't mess this up. We need Melos support more than any other thing in order to turn this mess around.

I do agree that it’s enormous. Just saw another video of SAS a day ago discussing Melo being nominated to the hall of fame and bringing up Kiyan coming to Syracuse. That’s the sense of urgency here, we put out some of our recent performances next year. It’s national sports news in a bad way. I wouldn’t be surprised if a College Gameday segment is in the works this season with a what’s happened to Syracuse similar to what we saw with football all those years ago. The obvious is we need Autry to instill confidence for the program with on court results. But also need him making himself more available to media and answering the tough questions. The class of 2025 SU students are on track to graduate without ever seeing Syracuse in the NCAA Tournament. I want to see Autry fight for this program and not hide from the numerous realities we are facing at this moment.

 

[FrancoPizza]

What if Red is fired. Melos kid goes to USC, the 5 star bolts, Donnie and Choppa transfer, and Melo closes the door on Syracuse because he no longer has any connections?
Save this post. Because the above is pretty much exactly what will happen.
The other scenario is Red is retained. One or more new assistant coaches are added.
Melos kid, Donnie, Choppa, 5 star and two studs out of the portal are added because Melo steps up with NIL money. Syracuse is relevant because of Team Melo on Social media. His circle is at games...
There is a buzz about SU again. We are getting a basketball version of what CU got in football.
If Red is gone this is gone as well.
I see your point but Personally I lean towards giving Red one more year in order to Keep Melo and all he brings .

I understand that logic if Melo is joined at the hip with red and is not bothered by the atrocious results this year. But those are two very big guesses. I have not heard one insider here back up that claim.

 

[rjs13090]

We've sat across from the home bench for over twenty years. Last year we saw it, but chalked it up to his first year, personality conflicts on the team, etc. GMac was the emotion guy. This, year, if anything, it seems even more toned down. Everyone around us has commented on it too. Not saying we need a Hurley out there throwing his toddler temper tantrums, or a Buzz sweating all over the floor fifteen feet onto the court, but geeze, show something.

Hard to miss
I notice players not listening in time outs. Most are looking at the video board
see them get burned on D, and he just sits there?
Jimmy would have been at half court?
Reality might be Red's a great guy, good recruiter but not a good coach?
nothing will happen this year
it might get ugly if the losses at home get worse

 

[Consigliere]

Back to the OP, I cant disagree with the detailed post except for this line,
though universally acclaimed as the right man for the job by the coaching community, media and search firm we apparently surreptitiously hired.

If he was universally acclaimed, other programs would have been wanting to interview him from 2018-2022. That wasn't the case, his name never popped up for other jobs unlike Hop who interviewed at Bonaventure and USC. There was no market for Red outside of Syracuse because the program was declining. IF this promotion didnt work out fans would immediately question it partially due to this fact.

I will rely on Red’s boss who said that the succession process went on for well over a year and everytime other coaches, media or athletic administrators were asked about potential candidates the response was that the best candidate was already in house. Not everything that happens is public knowledge. Because of that everyone is free to believe whatever they wish I suppose. I was fortunate enough to have very good access at the time and the people I was close to shared a significant amount of information with me.

 

[Consigliere]

I'll only push back on the bolded. If this season heads off into the abyss, and I truly hope it doesn't, then making a change at head coach would not be "for change sake".

That scenario wouldn't be like a hockey team ditching a coach early in the season to switch up the vibes. That's a change for change's sake.

Rather, the scenario we're discussing would be a change because the results are severely below any logical standard.

To clarify, my intent using that phrase is that expecting a turnaround simply by changing coaches is a fool’s errand. There are several factors that I listed that contributed to the current challenges. All must be addressed to realistically expect a marked improvement.
The AD is not reluctant to make changes, but to his credit he endeavors to provide the incumbent everything that Coach feels is necessary to succeed within the financial constraints of the department and often even beyond. We saw exactly that scenario with Dino.
Had we hired Fran Brown without the commitment to NIL support, facilities investment, enhanced support staff among other factors, we would probably be chastising Wildhack for hiring an unproven assistant.

 

[RF2044]

What if Red is fired. Melos kid goes to USC, the 5 star bolts, Donnie and Choppa transfer, and Melo closes the door on Syracuse because he no longer has any connections?
Save this post. Because the above is pretty much exactly what will happen.
The other scenario is Red is retained. One or more new assistant coaches are added.
Melos kid, Donnie, Choppa, 5 star and two studs out of the portal are added because Melo steps up with NIL money. Syracuse is relevant because of Team Melo on Social media. His circle is at games...
There is a buzz about SU again. We are getting a basketball version of what CU got in football.
If Red is gone this is gone as well.
I see your point but Personally I lean towards giving Red one more year in order to Keep Melo and all he brings .

I love the idea of Melo being around the program, but let's face facts -- his son is a quality recruit, but hardly a program changer. He also plays the same position as Moore, who is possibly the second best player on this year's team, with JJ being unavailable. And all three of them [including JJ] play the same position, so something has to give.

There's also a strong likelihood that the roster undergoes mass attrition, whether Red stays or is let go. Davis, Lampkin, and Carlos all expend their eligibility. Would it be a surprise if Bell portals out [I actually expect this to be the outcome after the season, given rumblings]? Also seems unlikely that the trio of Moore / Anthony / JJ all suit up next season. And Freeman could opt to go pro; kid is playing pretty well, and is projected as a first round pick. Also difficult to envision Westry / Cuffe returning.

Meaning that next season has the look of a rebuilding year -- exactly when our program / Red can't afford to have one. We still don't have a proven PG -- I have high hopes for Fennel, but still a risk. Sure, we could hit the portal hard, but that's no guarantee given how "well" that worked for us this year.

 

[ManleyRocks]

On the recruiting forum, it is noted by ON3 that Kiyan is coming up for the Wake Forest game….I suspect that his parents are going to spend a lot of time with JW, Coach Autry and perhaps Coach Emeritus B trying to figure out the situation and hopefully how he and his extensive network can help. This is an all hands on deck situation as you do not want to have 10k to 13k crowds in the largest on campus facility in America. With the largest on campus facility in America you cannot take your eye off the ball , not even for a moment.