The Chancellor Hire Will Determine Our Fate

[oldpinepoint]

Schools that have a very good athletic culture, especially in football and basketball usually have higher application rate. It definitely matters. Syracuse needs all the help it can get, it’s a private school, expensive and there is much better value out there academically. Northeast enrollment cliff is a real thing that will negatively impact its ability to attract students. The next chancellor will have a lot on his or her plate that they will
Need to navigate.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Schools that have a very good athletic culture, especially in football and basketball usually have higher application rate. It definitely matters. Syracuse needs all the help it can get, it’s a private school, expensive and there is much better value out there academically. Northeast enrollment cliff is a real thing that will negatively impact its ability to attract students. The next chancellor will have a lot on his or her plate that they will
Need to navigate.

Not just NE. Spot on everywhere post financial crisis.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Not just NE. Spot on everywhere post financial crisis.

True but it’s most impactful in the northeast due to large number of colleges.

 

[Cusefan95]

I don’t know a single
Kid - myself included - who chose a school because of the athletics (unless the kid was a recruit).

High level sports teams is nice to add to the college experience.
But not very Influential
In the initial decision.

It may add to a school’s national profile and help get Kids to notice
and check out the school.
But athletics alone Means
Very little.

It absolutely was a factor for me. One of probably a dozen and not #1 - but it was on list. So if you’re saying nobody chooses a school for athletics alone - sure, that’s likely true. I don’t know anyone who makes a major life decision on one and only one factor. If you’re saying it has no impact on how many students apply and the caliber of those students - there’s plenty of data out there which disproves that position. It means enough that schools notice.

I remember my brother telling me there were “anti-sportsball” professors at Binghamton who were upset going to D1 had a noticeable impact on their application pool in 2001, and were terrified going to the NCAAs in 2009 would result in another boost. Some of the “scandal” which imploded the program was those professors using things that happen everywhere to sabatoge and destroy something they viewed as a threat to their worldview. There’s a reason Dempsey had a 0.268 winning percentage and lasted 9 years, and basically left of his own accord to semi-retire and coach at SCCHS. Those professors are mostly still there - and the culture absolutely is. I suspect they would all say athletics success has no impact on applications - and since you can prove just about anything with statistics they can probably make a case for it some people would believe. But deep down, even they know it’s not true.

 

[rrlbees]

Somebody did a survey, it may have been SU or SU at least referenced it, and it showed that athletic programs do play a role and can impact applications. I might be misremembering but I think a couple years ago that survey was talked about here. I think Kent has even referenced how athletic programs can have a positive influence. It's why he's supportive of the athletic teams.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Somebody did a survey, it may have been SU or SU at least referenced it, and it showed that athletic programs do play a role and can impact applications. I might be misremembering but I think a couple years ago that survey was talked about here. I think Kent has even referenced how athletic programs can have a positive influence. It's why he's supportive of the athletic teams.

I think this is the study

https://surface.syr.edu/cgi/viewcon...ound that a,average SAT scores for applicants.

 

[rrlbees]

I think this is the study

https://surface.syr.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1398&context=honors_capstone#:~:text=The study found that a,average SAT scores for applicants.

good find but i thought it was more recent. but maybe not.

 

[Sbucketball]

Somebody did a survey, it may have been SU or SU at least referenced it, and it showed that athletic programs do play a role and can impact applications. I might be misremembering but I think a couple years ago that survey was talked about here. I think Kent has even referenced how athletic programs can have a positive influence. It's why he's supportive of the athletic teams.

Hopefully our next chancellor is supportive of athletics because he's a fan of SU athletics in addition to because it increases the university's profile, instead of a chancellor who may only be supportive due to its effect on applications and academics. I think that would make a big difference, especially for our spiraling basketball program.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Somebody did a survey, it may have been SU or SU at least referenced it, and it showed that athletic programs do play a role and can impact applications. I might be misremembering but I think a couple years ago that survey was talked about here. I think Kent has even referenced how athletic programs can have a positive influence. It's why he's supportive of the athletic teams.

1988 law school class had 7 first year students from California. Undergrad apps were way, way up. Guess how SU did in FB/BB the prior couple of years?

 

[007]

Hopefully our next chancellor is supportive of athletics because he's a fan of SU athletics in addition to because it increases the university's profile, instead of a chancellor who may only be supportive due to its effect on applications and academics. I think that would make a big difference, especially for our spiraling basketball program.

I'm reasonably sure we won't have to worry about the new Chancellor's support of athletics

 

[Cusefan95]

I think this is the study

https://surface.syr.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1398&context=honors_capstone#:~:text=The study found that a,average SAT scores for applicants.

I’m not sure average SAT scores of applicants not changing matters. If a school is going to accept a set number of students, they would be able to select more students above the average since there are more of them. The only way it becomes relevant is if it goes down, since it mitigates the advantage of more applicants.

Also not sure focusing on championships, runners up and cinderellas is ideal either. Most of those championship and runners up are schools always in the running, and a Cinderella team is a one-off that might not have great impact. The “Flutie Effect” is for a school that was traditionally horrible, got good in a way that appeared sustainable (it wasn’t, but that’s hindsight), and saw an applications bump. BC never fit the categories here. I think this is part of the problem - figuring out an unbiased way to select schools to fit the criteria without cherry picking or accusations of it is really hard. I guess an argument could be if an impact is seen in championships, runners up and surprise teams, a reasonable conclusion would be the impact is likely greater in “Flutie” schools.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Hopefully our next chancellor is supportive of athletics because he's a fan of SU athletics in addition to because it increases the university's profile, instead of a chancellor who may only be supportive due to its effect on applications and academics.

Does it have to be a man?

 

[rrlbees]

Hopefully our next chancellor is supportive of athletics because he's a fan of SU athletics in addition to because it increases the university's profile, instead of a chancellor who may only be supportive due to its effect on applications and academics. I think that would make a big difference, especially for our spiraling basketball program.

Kent supports SU athletics. bottom-line.

 

[elimunelson]

I went to SU because I didn’t get off the waiting list at Dartmouth and SU generously provided a nice scholarship. I certainly didn’t want to go to Dartmouth for football or hoops

Once that dream died the idea of going to a school w sports was appealing. But money and degree were 1 and 1a. Hoops and broads came next obviously

 

[mathgeek444]

The reality is Syracuse has no choice but to invest in athletics in order to remain a successful academic institution. With enrollment trends and how students are selecting colleges, we have to be able to offer students a big time college sports environment. The school has this data and knows it. Without it, Syracuse is a very overpriced middle of the road university in a location a lot of students don’t want to go when they can go south for college or select less expensive schools in the northeast or ones with better academic rankings.

Look at the peers in the northeast and it’s obvious. BC falls back on academic reputation and its location. All the small liberal arts schools have much better academic reputations throughout the northeast. Then you have state or smaller schools that are more affordable.

Without sports, Syracuse could be a failing university. Kent knew that and it’s why he supported athletics. You can only spend so much of course but we have spent a lot. We just got stuck with a bad replacement for Boeheim after his end of career issues.

Respectfully, I'm certain the people on the hill have this data and speak as though sports are important to them, and you are obviously very well connected. However, I don't think their actions back their words.

--Wildhack is an AD with zero athletic department experience
--Autry had zero HC experience when we gave him the job
--Fran not only had zero HC experience, he had zero play calling experience

This is playing a strategy of "cheap lotto ticket" rather than acknowledging sports are important to the university and really investing into them.

If we were truly serious about sports we would be throwing the kitchen sink at names like Tony Bennett (even if the chances he comes back are tiny), not trial ballooning names like Hop and Gmac.

 

[Cusefan95]

Respectfully, I'm certain the people on the hill have this data and speak as though sports are important to them, and you are obviously very well connected. However, I don't think their actions back their words.

--Wildhack is an AD with zero athletic department experience
--Autry had zero HC experience when we gave him the job
--Fran not only had zero HC experience, he had zero play calling experience

This is playing a strategy of "cheap lotto ticket" rather than acknowledging sports are important to the university and really investing into them.

If we were truly serious about sports we would be throwing the kitchen sink at names like Tony Bennett (even if the chances he comes back are tiny), not trial ballooning names like Hop and Gmac.

I suspect you think if Syracuse - with substantially less financial resources - not paying a guy like Georgia or Ohio State is a sign of a lack of commitment to winning. I don’t think that’s realistic.

A small, private northeastern school is going to have to think outside the box to be successful. Syracuse thought outside the box many years ago and did the crazy thing of letting black men play football - and we got Jim Brown, Ernie Davis. a national championship and a Heisman winner.

Wildhack and Brown were outside the box hires that can easily be defended as great decisions. Somehow the BOT being too loyal to JB and effectively forcing the hiring of Red has people questioning Wildhack’s job performance and Brown catching strays. Hopefully the BOT and key stakeholders who fought to the end for JB learn from this, the negative impact of their loyalty to JB is immense.

 

[Sbucketball]

Kent supports SU athletics. bottom-line.

There's levels to this.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Hopefully the BOT and key stakeholders who fought to the end for JB learn from this, the negative impact of their loyalty to JB is immense.

I must be crazy, but I think there would be more accountability if Board members were elected to a fixed term, similar to how school and town boards are run. Make votes on certain decisions public.

 

[5OutFred]

There's levels to this.

Nuance isn't fun.

 

[rrlbees]

There's levels to this.

yep. but Kents given athletics pretty much everything they've ever asked for. it's not a huge deal, but he attends games. and the big one I always point to is he was a member of that committee to reimagine college sports and was selected chairperson. in total, he supports athletics and SU athletics. additionally, Michigan is huge on athletics, one of the top 2 or 3 in the country. they had no problem bringing him in.

 

[elimunelson]

yep. but Kents given athletics pretty much everything they've ever asked for. it's not a huge deal, but he attends games. and the big one I always point to is he was a member of that committee to reimagine college sports and was selected chairperson. in total, he supports athletics and SU athletics. additionally, Michigan is huge on athletics, one of the top 2 or 3 in the country. they had no problem bringing him in.

Problem w our athletics isn’t the chancellor it’s the athletics themselves.

 

[Cusefan95]

yep. but Kents given athletics pretty much everything they've ever asked for. it's not a huge deal, but he attends games. and the big one I always point to is he was a member of that committee to reimagine college sports and was selected chairperson. in total, he supports athletics and SU athletics. additionally, Michigan is huge on athletics, one of the top 2 or 3 in the country. they had no problem bringing him in.

I’d expect athletic competitiveness is part of the objective statement at Syracuse, along with fiscal responsibility, educational rankings, community outreach, and likely other items. Part of the problem is the goals that flow out of that are always going to end up in conflicts - like we’d like to hire the top coach or build the best training faculties in the country but don’t have the money. And since this is a Syracuse sports message board, odds are strong people here are not ever going to feel like sports wins enough in those goal conflict resolutions. That leads to “Kent doesn’t support athletics”.

“Kent doesn’t support athletics to the unreasonable degree I as a Syracuse fan want him to” is a more accurate way to phrase the opinion being expressed. You are trying to reason with people who have staked out an unreasonable position…it’s unlikely you’ll convince them of much as a result.

 

[Newhouser]

The current Chancellor has certainly been supportive of e-sports. New arena opened last week, another scholarship player coming in. Think they are at 20 million plus on those build outs.

I don't think the Chancellor has been the reason for our athletic slide and I don't think the next Chancellor will be either. There are some hard realities coming where schools are going to have to decide what their core athletic mission is and at what cost.