The Coyle decision

[jekelish]

One thing is certain - we need to end this teeter-totter and get behind whatever decision Coyle makes. Some of us won't be happy but, so what. After all, its our team and we will all start next season with the same hopes that we had this September.

Agree with this wholeheartedly. It's no secret that I'd like to see Shafer get a little more time (in my perfect scenario, he'd get extended for two years but have an EASY buyout so that, if he doesn't get the job done, we can make a move after 2016 while simultaneously getting rid of the lame duck status), but if we are going to make a move, I'd prefer to see it sooner than later. I hate the idea of getting into the middle of December with half of our commits either gone or on the brink of being gone, and a new coach scrambling to evaluate and lock them up, and find new players to replace the ones who de-commit. It's not an enviable position to put someone in.

 

[phil77]

Agree with this wholeheartedly. It's no secret that I'd like to see Shafer get a little more time (in my perfect scenario, he'd get extended for two years but have an EASY buyout so that, if he doesn't get the job done, we can make a move after 2016 while simultaneously getting rid of the lame duck status), but if we are going to make a move, I'd prefer to see it sooner than later. I hate the idea of getting into the middle of December with half of our commits either gone or on the brink of being gone, and a new coach scrambling to evaluate and lock them up, and find new players to replace the ones who de-commit. It's not an enviable position to put someone in.

Like I said I think the decision has already been made. And I lean towards the side that we will be letting Shafer go at the end of the season. If the decision was to extend Shafer there is no reason to hold the announcement on that type of information. Get it out there fast so the recruits and players can move on. But Coyle being very silent on the status of our coach lead me to believe we will be moving on from Shafer. If he wanted Shafer to stay and was planning on extending him they would have announced that already IMO.

 

[Alsacs]

What youth on our team is getting better? Part of the Keep SS crowd is we have a young team. Next year we will have a lot of youth and coaching matters.
We aren't coached well. Plain and simple I want faith not praying for it to go better than it has.
SS resume is not good enough for another year. The program he took over was not bad it was mediocre. We are in the bottom 33% of college football. We aren't good.
This decision is a no-brainer we are going to be 4-8 or 3-9 this year with a soft schedule. We scheduled 3 OOC wins and had the worst Coastal team and Pitt as our crossover games.
This wasn't suppose to be a 4 win season. Hunt going down gave the team a higher ceiling and still we are 3-7. All we heard after the CMU game was 3-0, 3-0, 3-0 well we are now 3-7. It should be over the Sunday after the BC game.

 

[Alsacs]

when was the last time they hired someone good? was there one or two pivotal coaching misfires that doomed them? indiana is always terrible. i don't think any coaching move there has every been that pivotal

Indiana is a good bad team. They have a really good offense and no defense. They played Ohio State and Michigan to the last play of the game. They were competitive till the 4th q against Michigan State, Iowa, Penn state.
I would take Indiana's season over ours this year.

 

[GoSU96]

Being fired in the NFL doesn't mean diddly. A lot of coaches get fired left and right. And one coach admitted he was the fall guy. And his long resume and accomplishments are far more than those 2 years and as good or better than Marrone over their full careers prior to taking the SU job.

It doesn't mean diddly? Please. Yeah coaches during bad jobs get fired. Like Rob Ryan today.

Robinson since 2000 has gotten fired by the Broncos, Chiefs, SU, Michigan, and Texas. I believe he is responsible for the worst defensive teams in the history of Syracuse and Michigan.

He NEVER should have been hired here.

 

[Crusty]

Like I said I think the decision has already been made. And I lean towards the side that we will be letting Shafer go at the end of the season. If the decision was to extend Shafer there is no reason to hold the announcement on that type of information. Get it out there fast so the recruits and players can move on. But Coyle being very silent on the status of our coach lead me to believe we will be moving on from Shafer. If he wanted Shafer to stay and was planning on extending him they would have announced that already IMO.

I hear you, but I am not so sure about it. You don't get to his position without have some political and PR hops. For Coyle to make an extension while the team is on a big time losing streak would be a bit amateurish. If he is going to extend he can wait until we beat either NCS or BC at which point it will look a bit better. With the good feelings after Clemson he can really spin the youth angle with a win and it will go down better. If we don't win he will use the same spin with less than the desired effect. Either way he doesn't need to be in a hurry.

 

[elimunelson]

It doesn't mean diddly? Please. Yeah coaches during bad jobs get fired. Like Rob Ryan today.

Robinson since 2000 has gotten fired by the Broncos, Chiefs, SU, Michigan, and Texas. I believe he is responsible for the worst defensive teams in the history of Syracuse and Michigan.

He NEVER should have been hired here.

Darryl Gross shouldn't have been hired. GROB was a result of horrific AD hire.

i would have loved to see Jake Crouthamel's list of candidates if he was forced to fire P in 2005 (if he was still in charge)

 

[phil77]

I hear you, but I am not so sure about it. You don't get to his position without have some political and PR hops. For Coyle to make an extension while the team is on a big time losing streak would be a bit amateurish. If he is going to extend he can wait until we beat either NCS or BC at which point it will look a bit better. With the good feelings after Clemson he can really spin the youth angle with a win and it will go down better. If we don't win he will use the same spin with less than the desired effect. Either way he doesn't need to be in a hurry.

And if we don't beat either NC State or BC what then? If your plan is to extend no better time than to do it now after the Clemson game when everyone feels good.

 

[Crusty]

And if we don't beat either NC State or BC what then? If your plan is to extend no better time than to do it now after the Clemson game when everyone feels good.

Yes, but that is pretty slim hook on which to hang your hat. The risk is that win the last two and he still fires him. Then, watch this board!

 

[phil77]

Yes, but that is pretty slim hook on which to hang your hat. The risk is that win the last two and he still fires him. Then, watch this board!

NC State and BC are not Wake Forest. The chances of losing both those are games are stronger than us winning both games.

The board is going to explode either way.

 

[orangepassion]

Indiana is a good bad team. They have a really good offense and no defense. They played Ohio State and Michigan to the last play of the game. They were competitive till the 4th q against Michigan State, Iowa, Penn state.
I would take Indiana's season over ours this year.

I would take Kevin Wilson in a second

 

[rrlbees]

It doesn't mean diddly? Please. Yeah coaches during bad jobs get fired. Like Rob Ryan today. Robinson since 2000 has gotten fired by the Broncos, Chiefs, SU, Michigan, and Texas. I believe he is responsible for the worst defensive teams in the history of Syracuse and Michigan. He NEVER should have been hired here.

See what you did? You included jobs after the SU job. They're even jobs where the head coach got fired and thus the staffs. And again, his career wasn't just the 2 years where he was let go by Denver and KC. His resume pre SU was every bit as good as Marrones, maybe better.

 

[orangepassion]

NC State and BC are not Wake Forest. The chances of losing both those are games are stronger than us winning both games.

The board is going to explode either way.

BC is pretty bad, not that we can't lose to them

 

[GoSU96]

See what you did? You included jobs after the SU job. They're even jobs where the head coach got fired and thus the staffs. And again, his career wasn't just the 2 years where he was let go by Denver and KC. His resume pre SU was every bit as good as Marrones, maybe better.

No, it's not. He got out right fired twice in four years. Not part of HC change, outright fired.

His record since confirms the incompetence shown previously.

That's not as good or better than a guy that never was fired in a profession, as you said earlier, guys get fired all the time.

 

[rrlbees]

The board is going to explode either way.

No it's not.

 

[phil77]

No it's not.

I think both sides want what is best for the University and both sides have strong opinions on what direction the University should take to get there. Whatever the direction the University takes those strong opinions will remain until we start winning again.

 

[Townie72]

My outlook as well. People act as if Coyle doesn't get his #1 choice who proves to be the best coach we have had in 30 years than the program will no longer exist or we will be hiring HS Coaches in 2 years. Like you said, it's a make believe tipping point. Sensationalizing the hire/fire process way too much.

Coyle just needs to do his job and like I said, there are guys out there that will want the job. Look at hires from FCS level as well, some good coaches out there who would love to have the job. Whether he gets his #1 choice is crazy talk, guys don't get their #1 hire ALL the time, doesn't mean you should keep Shafer, there are plenty of good coaches out there that will want the job, I firmly believe that. Some are up and comers, some may have a bit of luggage, some may need another shot, some may need to be HC, etc I don't know, not my job Yes, we may get turned down by a couple but happens.

I am perfectly willing to stipulate that I might be wrong on any or all of this BUT;

1. We are already on a many year skein of trying to get a coach that will get us to a level we want to be. I just don't think you get unlimited chances without each failure or misfire making it harder and harder to get back to The MAC Years. I checked the Indiana football history. I knew that Lee Corso was the coach there in the 1970's. If you look at what they have done since 1995, it's pretty much been a new coach every four years. I said above we could be Indiana IF we had a few more failures. HECK, after looking at the record over the past 15-20 years, I now think we ARE Indiana.

2. The idea that there all these available coaches out there who are highly likely to turn a program around, doesn't seem to square with what I have seen. Maryland fired Fridgen and hires Randy Edsall, who was the hot property, the coaching whiz that was going to get them to the net level in the B1G.

 

[orangenauburn]

I am perfectly willing to stipulate that I might be wrong on any or all of this BUT;

1. We are already on a many year skein of trying to get a coach that will get us to a level we want to be. I just don't think you get unlimited chances without each failure or misfire making it harder and harder to get back to The MAC Years. I checked the Indiana football history. I knew that Lee Corso was the coach there in the 1970's. If you look at what they have done since 1995, it's pretty much been a new coach every four years. I said above we could be Indiana IF we had a few more failures. HECK, after looking at the record over the past 15-20 years, I now think we ARE Indiana.

2. The idea that there all these available coaches out there who are highly likely to turn a program around, doesn't seem to square with what I have seen. Maryland fired Fridgen and hires Randy Edsall, who was the hot property, the coaching whiz that was going to get them to the net level in the B1G.

Maryland is a bad example

They wee already at their MAC level and fired fridge for a guy who was 8-5 in the Big East

 

[TheCusian]

I am perfectly willing to stipulate that I might be wrong on any or all of this BUT; 1. We are already on a many year skein of trying to get a coach that will get us to a level we want to be. I just don't think you get unlimited chances without each failure or misfire making it harder and harder to get back to The MAC Years. I checked the Indiana football history. I knew that Lee Corso was the coach there in the 1970's. If you look at what they have done since 1995, it's pretty much been a new coach every four years. I said above we could be Indiana IF we had a few more failures. HECK, after looking at the record over the past 15-20 years, I now think we ARE Indiana. 2. The idea that there all these available coaches out there who are highly likely to turn a program around, doesn't seem to square with what I have seen. Maryland fired Fridgen and hires Randy Edsall, who was the hot property, the coaching whiz that was going to get them to the net level in the B1G.

Sticking with a coach just to stick with a coach is a new theory I'd rather not try.

You try to find the right guy who can build something sustainable. Hard? Yes. Impossible? No.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I am perfectly willing to stipulate that I might be wrong on any or all of this BUT;

1. We are already on a many year skein of trying to get a coach that will get us to a level we want to be. I just don't think you get unlimited chances without each failure or misfire making it harder and harder to get back to The MAC Years. I checked the Indiana football history. I knew that Lee Corso was the coach there in the 1970's. If you look at what they have done since 1995, it's pretty much been a new coach every four years. I said above we could be Indiana IF we had a few more failures. HECK, after looking at the record over the past 15-20 years, I now think we ARE Indiana.

2. The idea that there all these available coaches out there who are highly likely to turn a program around, doesn't seem to square with what I have seen. Maryland fired Fridgen and hires Randy Edsall, who was the hot property, the coaching whiz that was going to get them to the net level in the B1G.

Good post, I think right now we are far worse than Indiana, probably other than wake and Kansas the worst P5 team out there. Not really even close. I guess Purdue stinks too. That said, who is to say we can ever be good again? Nobody cares about how good we were 25 years ago. Maybe we will always stink like wake and Indiana have? Who knows but I have certainly seen enough of shafer to believe he isn't going to get us to a satisfactory level . We may very well never be good again but the next hire isn't absolutely critical long term either, it's just another football coach that we hope doesn't stink to be honest. The odds of us stinking for the next 10 years are certainly much greater than being a perennial top 25 program. That said, if he stinks 3-4 years we will be like every other program and hiring/ firing again. Stability stinks when you stink.

Wake, Indiana and Kansas have always stunk, maybe we will too. Too bad Kansas had a great coach but he was a fat loon. Mangino? Unless we have somebody who is willing to really open up the coffers we may not ever return to a competitive level. I mantain my original point though that firing shafer isn't that difficult and finding a decent replacement who on paper at least looks promising up front isn't terribly difficult. Then the fun starts and it's all a crap shoot but you aren't going ANYWHERE with the current HC. I just disagree with how critical the next coach is as well because he only needs to win 6 games to be a hero because again we stink.

 

[reedny]

I am perfectly willing to stipulate that I might be wrong on any or all of this BUT;

1. We are already on a many year skein of trying to get a coach that will get us to a level we want to be. I just don't think you get unlimited chances without each failure or misfire making it harder and harder to get back to The MAC Years. I checked the Indiana football history. I knew that Lee Corso was the coach there in the 1970's. If you look at what they have done since 1995, it's pretty much been a new coach every four years. I said above we could be Indiana IF we had a few more failures. HECK, after looking at the record over the past 15-20 years, I now think we ARE Indiana.

2. The idea that there all these available coaches out there who are highly likely to turn a program around, doesn't seem to square with what I have seen. Maryland fired Fridgen and hires Randy Edsall, who was the hot property, the coaching whiz that was going to get them to the net level in the B1G.

This is a good point ... you don't necessarily upgrade by changing staffs. You roll the dice. I think the current staff, now that Lester is in place and running his offense, is doing the best it can with the talent they have. Obviously, our record is not good. Anyone can see that. What I think some miss is that, despite a clear talent disparity, our offense looks better and our defense has played well against some of the top teams in the country. None of this is because we have any size or speed. It's because we have good schemes that are effective despite our talent deficit. So I'd like to see the staff have another year or two to recruit the players that fit into the new systems. I think we can be more successful, as we've seen in flashes recently against top teams.

What worries me more is recruiting. I think talent is the underlying problem, not coaching. And the talent is only incrementally improving. We are nowhere near where we need to be to compete against the top half of the ACC, which is an extremely competitive league. It seems like every other team we play is top 20, or even top 10 -- almost all of them have big fast RB's and WR's that we can't tackle or cover. As a result, beating these teams in the near future is not realistic. Even stepping up to a .500 conference record is going to require a much deeper talent pool at the skill positions than we have. I don't have an answer to this .. but I doubt a new staff is going to help. Probably the best thing that could happen is a dome renovation plan gets announced.

 

[Chris02M]

if we play like we did vs clemson we beat bc by 2 tds, on the road at nc state who the knows

 

[IthacaBarrel]

This is a good point ... you don't necessarily upgrade by changing staffs. You roll the dice. I think the current staff, now that Lester is in place and running his offense, is doing the best it can with the talent they have. Obviously, our record is not good. Anyone can see that. What I think some miss is that, despite a clear talent disparity, our offense looks better and our defense has played well against some of the top teams in the country. None of this is because we have any size or speed. It's because we have good schemes that are effective despite our talent deficit. So I'd like to see the staff have another year or two to recruit the players that fit into the new systems. I think we can be more successful, as we've seen in flashes recently against top teams.

What worries me more is recruiting. I think talent is the underlying problem, not coaching. And the talent is only incrementally improving. We are nowhere near where we need to be to compete against the top half of the ACC, which is an extremely competitive league. It seems like every other team we play is top 20, or even top 10 -- almost all of them have big fast RB's and WR's that we can't tackle or cover. As a result, beating these teams in the near future is not realistic. Even stepping up to a .500 conference record is going to require a much deeper talent pool at the skill positions than we have. I don't have an answer to this .. but I doubt a new staff is going to help. Probably the best thing that could happen is a dome renovation plan gets announced.

Here is my point, when you realize your current staff is not getting their job done and most likely won't, you have no other choice but to fire and hire somebody else. People can make all excuses in the world but it's just the way it goes. Where or what will happen from here nobody knows but staying the course is not a realistic option with what we have seen. Recruiting is average and we are in the basement in O and D.

Like I said, we may always stink, we may never be good again but you can't stop trying.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Darryl Gross shouldn't have been hired. GROB was a result of horrific AD hire.

i would have loved to see Jake Crouthamel's list of candidates if he was forced to fire P in 2005 (if he was still in charge)

Gross did some great things here. The success of the non-FB sports is a direct result of his vision. Robinson was bad, but his hand to fire PP was forced by the BOT after the bowl game. His hire of Marrone should have been the righting of the ship.

 

[Chip]

I doubt SU can attract and hire the best hot, new talent. If we try it and fail, we are going to get embarrassed.

This is a football program that has been wallowing in mediocrity or worse for 15 years.

I'm hoping SU said bye bye a long time ago to being afraid to get embarrassed. Because if there's one thing we're good at...