the crane the crane

[Sudano]

*they're

Your right and I was rong.
Im sure you've never misspeled anything.

 

[NJCuse97]

But all this factors into a recruits decision on where to go and that will effect the final score of a game and the record for the year. I’m sure someone will combat this guy saying that we don’t want those kids but are you okay with losing the next possible Mcnabb or melo or brown...

Did Brown choose SU because of the then 50 year old Archbold? Did McNabb choose SU because of the then 15 year old Dome? Don't you think he saw it collapse on Marvin Graves!!?? How could he have been so dumb as to come to SU!!?? Melo came to a 23 year old Dome. Wow! These guys are crazy. I hear your point, but don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

[buffalorange]

Haha, I'm not the expert like these other posters. Would love to hear their research or institutional knowledge.

I'm going to ungracefully bow out of the lighting discussion. However, I may be back for future discussions on tech advancements at the dome.

A long time ago, on a page far far away someone posted that the field lighting in the existing dome seemed dulI. I never thought the lighting was dim, but that the turf color was a bit dull.

I have friend who used to work for Crouse Hinds lighting. Crouse was local when the dome was built and I am quite sure supplied the lighting for the facility. He stated that tv production companies loved working in the dome as it was perfectly lit for television. Not just brightness, but color temperature as well. He also stated that the dome required extra fixtures because of the roof. The inflatable roof was not rigid and so it would flex constantly - not just inches, but many feet - and the lighting had to overlap to make sure it was always even with the roof in motion.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Let's talk about the article Chris Carlson wrote yesterday on the renovation project. We have mostly ignored it up to now.

Here it is, in case you haven't read it yet:

Carrier Dome renovation: When will we start to see more of the new roof?

Pete Sala provided an idea of what parts of the Carrier Dome renovation will come next and when we'll actually get to see a roof put on the building.

www.syracuse.com

Some thoughts on some of the major points Chris makes...

“Well, I think that we’re hoping, the way the schedule is laid out now, mid-July you should start seeing that next part of the roof going on, the actual structure,” Sala said. “That needs to go very quickly in order for us to start hanging lights and sound and video underneath it. That is really scheduled tight.”

I am very much surprised the actual structure is not expected to take shape until July. I have a great deal of trouble understanding the version of English Pete Sala speaks, and am not 100% sure what he is attempting to say here. I can't imagine nothing will go up until mid-July. I think based on his other attempts at providing insight later in the article, the plan is to get the cables that will form the backbone for the new roof up beforehand, get the framework for the roof in place first and hold off on actually building the roof until July.

“There will be a hard-deck roof that goes up a little over the first-third of the roof. It’ll look a little like the Manley Field House roof,” Sala said. “That will be a good example of that. Then there will be a fabric roof for the last two-thirds.”

It is disappointing that primary spokesperson for the project is so incapable of explaining what is goiung to happen with the project. I am not sure if he is just completely inarticulate or he just doesn't understand what he is being asked to explain. Either way, it is not good. Is it possible to get someone in front of the press who is capable of communicating in a clear and straghtforward fashion?

“What they should see soon, as early as mid-to-late (this) week, is they’ll see some of that rust-colored steel starting to come down,” Sala said. “Right now we’re working on the rest of the railing around the crown truss and the catwalk that goes all the way around that part of the structure. They’ll see some work on the inside through the webcam of the new cable starting to get laid out, maybe some of them getting hooked up to the old points of the building. You’ll see these blue boxes. People keep asking me what they are. That’s the scaffolding for Pfeifer FabriTec for the steelworkers to get in to connect the new cables to the new truss.”

I have been watching on the cameras and haven't seen any progress towards removing the back stays to date. Again, I am surprised at what looks like a distinct lack of urgency since the crown truss was completed. It looks like they are adding hand rails to the other side of the tops of the girders as a safety feature.

I keep seeing workers stationed at the end point of the back stays, where the cables are attached, for long periods. It looks like they are doing something and I have been hoping to see the cables get released but to date, I haven't seen any progress.

It is good to see that the purpose for the blue scaffolding has been confirmed.

“We aren’t planning on (a webcam) right now,” Sala said. “It’s not something we’ve done on any construction site at Syracuse University. We don’t put web cameras inside the buildings. Not a huge fan.”

I will give Pete credit for one thing. He is consistent. He has never cared what fans think and that has clearly not changed.

I wonder if they have to wait on the folks from Pfeifer.

 

[OttoMets]

...
I have a great deal of trouble understanding the version of English Pete Sala speaks, and am not 100% sure what he is attempting to say here. I can't imagine nothing will go up until mid-July. I think based on his other attempts at providing insight later in the article, the plan is to get the cables that will form the backbone for the new roof up beforehand, get the framework for the roof in place first and hold off on actually building the roof until July.

“There will be a hard-deck roof that goes up a little over the first-third of the roof. It’ll look a little like the Manley Field House roof,” Sala said. “That will be a good example of that. Then there will be a fabric roof for the last two-thirds.”
...

Except the Manley roof is supported by arched rafters of a sort, not an exterior truss and cables. So it's not at all a good example. It couldn't be a worse example, except they're both roofs and they're both hard.

I'm with you, Tom. I have never met a working man who has a more inexact way of communicating than Pete does. And he doesn't seem to care a bit that there are comms professionals who could serve as the intermediary between engineers/builders and the public.

That's why I tend to push back against the apologism for this trend of poor communication. Maybe it doesn't matter. But it's a pretty simple thing and SU is terrible at it. [And if project communications is as meaningless, in the age of COVID, as some here suggest, then why does SU waste the $450,000 man's time (a) doing something he obviously hates while (b) not creating value for the institution and (c) not informing the press/public?]

 

[upperdeck]

I know why its done down here and its mostly because the people at the top dont care that the people under them do a poor job and it just cascades down hill. why is there so much in fighting at SU and lack of cooperation on so many projects?

 

[OttoMets]

I know why its done down here and its mostly because the people at the top dont care that the people under them do a poor job and it just cascades down hill. why is there so much in fighting at SU and lack of cooperation on so many projects?

Silos, politics, Peter Principle, you name it.

Also, I think there's been a long delay in realizing the inherent incompatibility between higher education and big-money athletics. There were micro problems for decades, but only recently (under the last two ADs) has there been this level of institutional tension, I think. Gross worked within the structural impediments with some obvious limitations, but Coyle and Wildhack have pushed back against why those impediments even exist.

Which brings them around to the first sentence of problems, I imagine.

 

[orangecuse]

Now imagine it's last year, just after Christmas, and you are shopping for that TV. You have a guarantee that a new TV can be shipped and installed before the Superbowl. You are having a huge party and want the biggest baddest TV you can get. You see the two TVs and go with the more expensive one because it jut looks better. You thought it was made in Schenectady, but it is now owned by Sony. When you get to the register, they scan it and as you are about to hand over your credit card, the check out clerk says, Sony no longer offers the original 2 year warranty, and they can no longer guarantee the delivery before the Superbowl because they are on back order. Do you stick with the Sony and risk not having the TV for the game, or do you go back and get the other one that still has the guaranteed delivery and install?

Ha, I originally typed a situation exactly like that in regards to having a SB Party, new TV, back-order scenario, etc. almost verbatim, except for anything about where the TV was made since none of the high quality HDTV's are made in the USA anyways. I can see, based upon all of your "likes" I should've gone with my first inkling.

In all good fun, I'll play and answer you by saying, as I was checking out, I somehow missed this incredible OLED state of the art LG HDTV, that was just absolutely stunning. It was the best picture I've ever seen, better than the Sony even...so, I went with that LG. And, man was it worth the extra coin too, because everyone was just totally blown away at my SB party by the amazement of such an industry-leading product.

 

[sutomcat]

I wonder if they have to wait on the folks from Pfeifer.

CuseLegacy, I think this is a wonderful video but looking at the 2 or 3 drawings SU or its contractors have has released showing the new roof, it doesn't look like it is circular shaped. I can't see them using this process, at least not exactly, to get the roof up in Syracuse.

I think they might bring up the 4 main cables that are directly attached to the crown truss in a way similar to this (let's can them the load bearing cables), but I think the different design requires a little different approach.

I am guessing the plan is to get the 4 load bearing cables up and in place, secured to the crown truss, and then start filling in the roof from there. That part should be quite similar (except this will be a full roof covering the entire facility).

 

[upperdeck]

The timing we are hearing now just seems so strange. Talking about a roof taking shape in July seems really slow paced? Its just seems like the roof needs to be done by July to get the insides done in 4-6 weeks..

Cables go up in may, roof pieces go up early june. Roof finishing up in July, insides done in August, scoreboard goes in late August, testing done Sept, Seats go back in once the roof is in place. Is a timeline too secret to expose in case they get behind?

 

[rocklloyd]

I too was confused by the timing laid out in article. In fact, I actually said "mid july" out loud to cause me wife to look at me (then I had to explain which was a really odd discussion). anyhoo, i'm trying to remember how long it took to replace the panels in 1999. If memory serves it was done pretty quickly in that summer. I don't recall them cutting lacrosse short. If he tells us support cables will be up and everything else to support laying the panels on the roof, then maybe mid july works. but there would appear to be a boatload of indoor stuff required after building is weatherproof, which I supposed can be mitigated by 24 hour per day work.

 

[Orangezoo]

So I have been looking through what some other basketball arenas have done and wondering where lighting comes into it. For instance check out Purdue. Is this a lighting company feature or a scoreboard/video board feature? Also I presume it works for hoops and a smaller court but not sure it could ever for football. Either way it is really cool. Google Florida for their hoops and it's pretty slick as well.

 

[rocklloyd]

So I have been looking through what some other basketball arenas have done and wondering where lighting comes into it. For instance check out Purdue. Is this a lighting company feature or a scoreboard/video board feature? Also I presume it works for hoops and a smaller court but not sure it could ever for football. Either way it is really cool. Google Florida for their hoops and it's pretty slick as well.

I have a feeling this is not in budget.

 

[upperdeck]

I dont think that is as much lighting as it is projection. Its more a function of the computer program once you have the equipment. its really not a high level cost and once the equipment is in place it can be swapped out for other inputs in the future

"Depending on the level of content input, costs can range from between US$100,000 and US$250,000 for projection in an indoor arena. "

But its probably the same answer as the indoor camera.. not his cup of tea, why provide entertainment for the people sitting in the dome at a game, they are there for the hot dogs.

You look at that cost and tell me they cant find 1 donor with $250K to put this stuff in ?

 

[Cusefan78]

I dont think that is as much lighting as it is projection. Its more a function of the computer program once you have the equipment. its really not a high level cost and once the equipment is in place it can be swapped out for other inputs in the future

"Depending on the level of content input, costs can range from between US$100,000 and US$250,000 for projection in an indoor arena. "

But its probably the same answer as the indoor camera.. not his cup of tea, why provide entertainment for the people sitting in the dome at a game, they are there for the hot dogs.

You look at that cost and tell me they cant find 1 donor with $250K to put this stuff in ?

Agree. Not a chance the dome gets that. Could you imagine how crazy the dome Would get if they had something like that for the entrance.

 

[NJCuse97]

Except the Manley roof is supported by arched rafters of a sort, not an exterior truss and cables. So it's not at all a good example. It couldn't be a worse example, except they're both roofs and they're both hard.

I agree with the assertion that Pete is not the best public communicator. I think some see him as a sort of Norman Schwarzkopf Jr. type.

That said, I don't believe the rigid roof is to be supported by the crown truss or cables. I believe there will be a truss system internal that will support the rigid portion and the cables/crown truss will support the center portion (2/3 of the roof according to the article). I don't recall where, but in an earlier article (or maybe the same article before a trim was done) it made mention of "bridge trusses" and I take that to mean what I am referring to.

 

[NJCuse97]

Ha, I originally typed a situation exactly like that in regards to having a SB Party, new TV, back-order scenario, etc. almost verbatim, except for anything about where the TV was made since none of the high quality HDTV's are made in the USA anyways. I can see, based upon all of your "likes" I should've gone with my first inkling.

In all good fun, I'll play and answer you by saying, as I was checking out, I somehow missed this incredible OLED state of the art LG HDTV, that was just absolutely stunning. It was the best picture I've ever seen, better than the Sony even...so, I went with that LG. And, man was it worth the extra coin too, because everyone was just totally blown away at my SB party by the amazement of such an industry-leading product.

So now we need to find the stadium lighting equivalent. Problem is, I think we've left the store.

 

[CuseLegacy]

CuseLegacy, I think this is a wonderful video but looking at the 2 or 3 drawings SU or its contractors have has released showing the new roof, it doesn't look like it is circular shaped. I can't see them using this process, at least not exactly, to get the roof up in Syracuse.

I think they might bring up the 4 main cables that are directly attached to the crown truss in a way similar to this (let's can them the load bearing cables), but I think the different design requires a little different approach.

I am guessing the plan is to get the 4 load bearing cables up and in place, secured to the crown truss, and then start filling in the roof from there. That part should be quite similar (except this will be a full roof covering the entire facility).

I think, whatever shape, the underlying structure will be closer to what is in that video

 

[BillSU]

Well, well. As I thought a long time ago and agree with tomcat that another spokesperson be chosen due to Sala's inability to communicate in a cordial fashion what is going on. At least we have our answer to an indoor
cam which I guessed we wouldn't get by the way Sala answered my email a brief time ago.

If you remember, he said "I'll look into it" not something like... "sure I think as you said many are experiencing a great time watching the construction why don't we consider an indoor cam?" Instead he spit out this:
“We aren’t planning on (a webcam) right now,” Sala said. “It’s not something we’ve done on any construction site at Syracuse University. We don’t put web cameras inside the buildings. Not a huge fan.”

While some fans have enjoyed following the project from afar via the school’s webcam, Sala said that the outdoor view likely will remain the only way to follow the project. He doesn’t anticipate installing one so that fans can monitor the interior work.

This guy is the wrong individual to be talking to the media - he doesn't know how to put forth a positive message. He's a fact guy, curt and to the point. Congenial he's not.

He is not a for the fan type person as John Wildhack is which is why listening to him and reading what he said in various articles never thought a camera was a possibility but went ahead and asked anyway.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I can’t see this project being completed on time. Sala said the installation of the roof is the most complicated. It’s taken four months to complete the truss.

 

[OttoMets]

I agree with the assertion that Pete is not the best public communicator. I think some see him as a sort of Norman Schwarzkopf Jr. type.

That said, I don't believe the rigid roof is to be supported by the crown truss or cables. I believe there will be a truss system internal that will support the rigid portion and the cables/crown truss will support the center portion (2/3 of the roof according to the article). I don't recall where, but in an earlier article (or maybe the same article before a trim was done) it made mention of "bridge trusses" and I take that to mean what I am referring to.

Interesting - thanks! So the bridge trusses that support the outer ring of rigid roofing will be connected to the existing steel frame of the building? Essentially like every baseball stadium's canopy?

 

[Cusefan78]

I can’t see this project being completed on time. Sala said the installation of the roof is the most complicated. It’s taken four months to complete the truss.

He hasn’t been right on a single time frame he has put out there. The roof and cables were only going to take a week. It looked like the zombie apocalypse for two weeks. I hope it gets done on time but I’m not optimistic

 

[CuseLegacy]

Tensile Membrane Structures & Fabric Structures | FabriTec Structures

FabriTec Structures is an award-winning design-build contractor specializing in the design and construction of custom tensile membrane structures.

fabritecstructures.com

FabriTec Structures Begins Carrier Dome Roof Construction

FabriTec Structures has started the installation of a massive new cable suspension membrane roof on the Carrier Dome at Syracuse University.

fabritecstructures.com

Dallas, Texas

 

[OttoMets]

Tensile Membrane Structures & Fabric Structures | FabriTec Structures

FabriTec Structures is an award-winning design-build contractor specializing in the design and construction of custom tensile membrane structures.

fabritecstructures.com

FabriTec Structures Begins Carrier Dome Roof Construction

FabriTec Structures has started the installation of a massive new cable suspension membrane roof on the Carrier Dome at Syracuse University.

fabritecstructures.com

Dallas, Texas

What is this, a video board for ants?

 

[Orangezoo]

Agree. Not a chance the dome gets that. Could you imagine how crazy the dome Would get if they had something like that for the entrance.

I didn't think this is lighting but this is the type of thing I would agree can be a big deal and makes a difference. Lighting and colors aren't that different from the two companies. Projection though is a different ball game. That said my guess is that it would be much harder to do this given we aren't just a basketball facility. You have to project over a much larger space. Again if it was possible it's worth the money. Orange and blue are colors that pop - just watch Florida's intro.