the crane the crane

[longtimefan]

Yes. However, those costs overruns I believe, or the bulk of them, were more related to the retractable roof and those particulars, etc. vs. the specific option I’m mentioning. I did state originally that even that additional cost may likely have been the most significant factor in not doing that (if indeed SU was even seriously considering such a thing) vs. shadows, etc. on the hoops court.

So, maybe the BC Place job was not one to compare with the local project.

 

[Shenexon]

My apologies if posted elsewhere...

 

[orangecuse]

So, maybe the BC Place job was not one to compare with the local project.

Both BC Place and the Dome were practically one in the same structures in their original states, and it's why SU looked at it long and hard in regards to what could potentially be done with the Dome. So, in actuality, there probably wasn't a structure any better than that one to compare it with prior to their respective renovations, which is the crux of my original post.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Quick update:

I was golfing most of the time the blue/grey thing was installed yesterday. There is apparently some question regarding what it is. I think it is the composite metal and this is the exterior surface of the new roof.

I thought I saw it getting built plank by plank, and saw workers carrying planks up the rather steep slope of the new roof, then install them. But I didn’t take a lot of time to review things and I did not have a high res monitor to view the tape. So I could be wrong. There are reports there is a fabric involved. Maybe there is and it is being used to protect the surface of the roof. Or maybe they are using a fabric backing, then putting the composite metal over it. Not sure.

For now. I think the first section of the hard shell is done. If you divide the hard shell into sections by column and then by the beams that run parallel (or close to parallel) to the wall, there are 23 sections for each wall, or 96 sections in all. So we are, or might be, 1/96th done with the hard shell exterior surface. It took a long time to get this one done. Pretty much all day. I assume there will be a learning curve. This was one of the biggest sections as well. But even if you cut the time required by 2/3, we would be looking at more than 30 work days to get the hard shell section of the roof in place. Hopefully the speed of installing this will really step up in the next few days.

And hopefully that crane they are building on Forestry will get finished today and start filing in the gap between the western and southern builds. Looks like a perfect day for construction. Perfect temps in the 70-75 range and low wind.

Perhaps not "planks" but rather steel that is attached to the steel structure to which the panels are then attached.

 

[wiseman3]

Casual observer of this whole process here. I'm worried about the color of those hard panels...I hope I'm wrong when its all done but I'm not sure how great it will look with that greyish blue color.

 

[SU in Hershey]

Casual observer of this whole process here. I'm worried about the color of those hard panels...I hope I'm wrong when its all done but I'm not sure how great it will look with that greyish blue color.

I think it will largely depend on how much it plays with natural light as far as reflectivity, etc. It may vary significantly with the weather (degree of sunshine and our more typical overcast days, especially in the winter), and I'm curious how it will look at night depending on what lighting they will use along the truss. The traditional white dome roof was iconic, so I am hopeful we will have something different, yet ultimately appealing, if not striking.
Just my thoughts...

 

[CuseLegacy]

Casual observer of this whole process here. I'm worried about the color of those hard panels...I hope I'm wrong when its all done but I'm not sure how great it will look with that greyish blue color.

That might not be the color of the panel. That might be the underlying "panels" to which the exterior panels are attached. If that makes any sense. Just considering how these panels are installed on a wall.

 

[orangemass]

I think the width is impressive. The depth is not. My guess is they are only talking about width here.

It’s all about girth

 

[Shenexon]

If we don't like the color, it's nothing that a wagner sprayer and a few gallons of orange paint wouldn't fix...

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[longtimefan]

Both BC Place and the Dome were practically one in the same structures in their original states, and it's why SU looked at it long and hard in regards to what could potentially be done with the Dome. So, in actuality, there probably wasn't a structure any better than that one to compare it with prior to their respective renovations, which is the crux of my original post.

So back to your original post, because there's a possibility of getting lost in the weeds--

You were advocating for a different construction model, which would allow more natural light into the structure. I would contend that such a consideration was way down the list of priorities. In fact, I think there were really only 2 musts--1.) get an iffy roof replaced with a more stable and long-lasting design; and, 2.) get the work done with a minimum of disruption to the football and basketball programs. A fancy new scoreboard, improved sound system, AC, etc. are nice improvements, but not of primary importance. And, of course, staying within a comparatively reasonable budget.

I think that, after reviewing the BC Place project, the SU planners fairly quickly decided that the biggest lessons to be learned concerned how to avoid some of the errors that had been made in Vancouver. Perhaps using PTFE was aspirational, but that wish may have run into budgetary or even engineering roadblocks.

Will the final product be all that everyone might have hoped for? No. But let's hold our fire for a bit. The end result may well be worth the angst.

 

[upperdeck]

looks like me roof ing my shed last week. How many Amish do they use on a project this big?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Why use a bungee? You would be a great hit

One hit wonder

 

[Jeepers]

I hope that isn’t the final color combo. Tan, white, grey? Yuck. Could the roof panels have some kind of temporary, protective grey film on them?

 

[hoopsupstate]

I don’t think what’s being installed on the Dome roof is the final roof. Sala stated their is a soft membrane that goes under the steel roof.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I don’t think what’s being installed on the Dome roof is the final roof. Sala stated their is a soft membrane that goes under the steel roof.

Was going to post similar. Could be insulation or some sort of possibly an anti slip membrane for when pieces are placed. Presumably won't be viewable from the outside and I wouldn't think inside either unless they have another means to hide electric wiring for lights, speakers, and center hung boards. This may be a middle layer of sorts to keep the dome from sounding like a tin roof in a rain storm

 

[hoopsupstate]

They can run wires along beams that won’t be seen.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I don’t think what’s being installed on the Dome roof is the final roof. Sala stated their is a soft membrane that goes under the steel roof.

Roof Underlayment Comparison - Metal Construction News

Metal roofing systems are designed to shed moisture off buildings and they are the first line of defense against moisture from rain or snow. All metal roofing systems benefit from underlayments.

www.metalconstructionnews.com

Rubberized Asphalt

Various types of rubber-like materials called rubberized asphalt (often called SBS modified underlayment) are used as underlayments. Asphalt can be polymer-modified with bitumen (a viscous mixture of hydrocarbons), which gives it rubber- or plastic-like properties. Ray says these polymers enhance its resistance to damage and deterioration. Rubberized asphalt underlayment is applied in large panels that are bonded together or heat-fused into one seamless membrane.

 

[CU44SE]

I’m just being a negative Nancy but I don’t like that there will be soft membrane under the metal. Metal reflects noise. This soft membrane sounds absorbent. I have a terrifying feeling that we are going to lose the noise factor in the dome. The Dome was the greatest home field advantage we could ever have. We could only get 25,000 people in there sometimes but could still make it sound like a 75,000 stadium packed with fans. It was a big advantage for us. And I really think we are going to lose the loud house with this new design.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I’m just being a negative Nancy but I don’t like that there will be soft membrane under the metal. Metal reflects noise. This soft membrane sounds absorbent. I have a terrifying feeling that we are going to lose the noise factor in the dome. The Dome was the greatest home field advantage we could ever have. We could only get 25,000 people in there sometimes but could still make it sound like a 75,000 stadium packed with fans. It was a big advantage for us. And I really think we are going to lose the loud house with this new design.

Since no one knows what the construction process is for the roof, all we got is a rendering, it's all construction speculation.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Since no one knows what the construction process is for the roof, all we got is a rendering, it's all construction speculation.

Only in Syracuse can people complain about a stadium that nobody has seen because of what they "think" it might look like.

 

[DoubleDee]

Only in Syracuse can people complain about a stadium that nobody has seen because of what they "think" it might look like.

Right. And there is literally a post within these pages complaining about the bright white truss against the “drab concrete”.
Last time I checked, that drab concrete has had a bright white roof on it for 40 years.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I’m just being a negative Nancy but I don’t like that there will be soft membrane under the metal. Metal reflects noise. This soft membrane sounds absorbent. I have a terrifying feeling that we are going to lose the noise factor in the dome. The Dome was the greatest home field advantage we could ever have. We could only get 25,000 people in there sometimes but could still make it sound like a 75,000 stadium packed with fans. It was a big advantage for us. And I really think we are going to lose the loud house with this new design.

You better have something under metal or you will be dripped on due to condensation. I also believe there is another form of insulation board that will be installed from the interior of the building.

 

[sutomcat]

It takes a lot of patience to find that short few seconds when this grey/blue surface is extended. I have gone through the video from Lawrinson a bunch of times. When they add on to it, I see is a couple of workers lifting a long, thin panel (it takes a couple). I don’t think they are that heavy but the panels are definitely not super rigid.

When the light is right, you can see the metal frame of hard shell through this layer. It is clearly not made of metal.

Once this layer is installed, the workers can and definitely do walk on it. It is rigid enough to support their weight.

So I think based on the excellent link CuseLegacy supplied, this is what we are seeing here:

Non-Bitumen Synthetic

Different types of synthetic underlayment have been around since the early 2000s and they have become arguably the most commonly used metal roof underlayment today. Most synthetics are woven or spun from either polyethylene or polypropylene. While the ingredients are similar, the manufacturing process and thickness of each underlayment type can be fine-tuned to produce different properties, such as exposure time and walkability.

“Synthetics are lighter, easier to apply and often provide greater levels of skid resistance,” Ray says. “Many of the roofers I have spoken with will choose an underlayment chiefly due to its ability to reduce slippage. They are resistant to fungal growth, don’t absorb moisture, are highly resistant to UV penetration and can stay exposed for greater periods of time, sometimes up to six months. In most instances, the synthetic material is the go-to for most slopes and, depending on the application, can be used in conjunction with the rubberized asphalt product.”

Note that paragraph that talks about walkability. I agree with CL. This is roof underlayment, which before today, I didn’t even know was a thing.

We should probably all relax and wait for the metal composite panels to arrive. Then we can panic.

Good to see them do 2 more today. Not good that there is at least one more layer.

I will also add that if NJCuse97 is right and the exterior surface is metal composite panels, the panels have insulation built into them. I believe they are meant to be one stop shopping when putting up a roof. They have the hard exterior surface, they have insulation and something else I don’t remember. The centria web site is unfortunately down now so I can’t link to it, but there is a good explanation of what metal composite panels are there that is worth looking at.

 

[orangecuse]

So back to your original post, because there's a possibility of getting lost in the weeds--

You were advocating for a different construction model, which would allow more natural light into the structure. I would contend that such a consideration was way down the list of priorities. In fact, I think there were really only 2 musts--1.) get an iffy roof replaced with a more stable and long-lasting design; and, 2.) get the work done with a minimum of disruption to the football and basketball programs. A fancy new scoreboard, improved sound system, AC, etc. are nice improvements, but not of primary importance. And, of course, staying within a comparatively reasonable budget.

I think that, after reviewing the BC Place project, the SU planners fairly quickly decided that the biggest lessons to be learned concerned how to avoid some of the errors that had been made in Vancouver. Perhaps using PTFE was aspirational, but that wish may have run into budgetary or even engineering roadblocks.

Will the final product be all that everyone might have hoped for? No. But let's hold our fire for a bit. The end result may well be worth the angst.

I originally replied to a poster commenting on the implication that due to hoops being played in the Dome is the reason ETFE was ruled out. I merely suggested that there was other options and not an all or nothing proposal. I pointed out how BC Place added a section of ETFE above the wall height that wrapped all around the perimeter before erecting the new roof. That would've allowed a significant amount of natural light into the building concourse and stands areas without casting the undesired shadows down onto the court.

Many were hoping for more natural light being brought into the building, and that was being pitched at one time by SU (Sala) how that was pretty important. When the announcement was made that a very similar PTFE (vs. ETFE) material was being used as the existing, with the same general effect, I recall many here finding that to be quite disappointing. In regards to your aspirations comment, I don't believe one to be substantially more ($$$) than the other as much as particular application, although I'm not certain.

It remains to be seen what SU may do in the future to bring in more natural light. There are some things doing after the fact that aren't reasonable to do so, especially from an economic feasibility standpoint. And, there are some which are, like the improvements you mention, which can be accomplished without much difficulty at any time duration, phase, etc.

In regards to your 'hold the fire' remark, there hasn't been any 'fire' coming from me. Although, it's certainly interesting how it seems I'm fending it off when simply providing a non-combative opinion/viewpoint.