The head coach's thinking for 22-23

[djcon57]

Frank was clearly not ACC level starter and was even a subpar backup. Am I missing something? Having no backup is bad, but please do not act like he is some great player. Last season was a big struggle and now he might be stepping onto a Georgia team that has to totally reset their program.

Yes. You are missing that Frank is better than the current backup center. Therefore, it’s bad.

If we get someone equivalent or better, then it’s not a problem.

 

[Day2]

How about both?

Is there not a 6’9 230 kid that can move a bit that’s toiling for some scrub school out there?

JB doesn’t want that type of player. He wants to give the freshman forwards breathing room. Whether it’s a senior transfer or a freshman (or anyone in between) taking Swider’s spot, it’s going to take until at least January to become fully acclimated with our defense. Why not give those minutes to someone who’ll be around for awhile?

For the last couple of years, you’ve been talking about giving the freshmen more minutes, if not starting them. Now it’s happening and it’s not good enough?

We have four guys coming in who can play forward. They’ll be the fifth option on offense. It’s not outside the realm of possibility for one or two of these guys to be serviceable.

 

[Ragman2000]

JB doesn’t want that type of player. He wants to give the freshman forwards breathing room. Whether it’s a senior transfer or a freshman (or anyone in between) taking Swider’s spot, it’s going to take until at least January to become fully acclimated with our defense. Why not give those minutes to someone who’ll be around for awhile?

For the last couple of years, you’ve been talking about giving the freshmen more minutes, if not starting them. Now it’s happening and it’s not good enough?

We have four guys coming in who can play forward. They’ll be the fifth option on offense. It’s not outside the realm of possibility for one or two of these guys to be serviceable.

Great post Day2, totally agree. It also help mitigate transferitis at the end of the year.

 

[sutomcat]

JB doesn’t want that type of player. He wants to give the freshman forwards breathing room. Whether it’s a senior transfer or a freshman (or anyone in between) taking Swider’s spot, it’s going to take until at least January to become fully acclimated with our defense. Why not give those minutes to someone who’ll be around for awhile?

For the last couple of years, you’ve been talking about giving the freshmen more minutes, if not starting them. Now it’s happening and it’s not good enough?

We have four guys coming in who can play forward. They’ll be the fifth option on offense. It’s not outside the realm of possibility for one or two of these guys to be serviceable.

It is going to hurt short term but if this gets most or all of the kids in the class to buy in and stay at Syracuse for most or all of their college careers, you can argue it is well worth it.

From what I have seen, all the kids can play. Most won't be quite ready to play well at this level right away and there are going to be growing pains.

But it appears that if you want a team with sophomores, juniors and dare I say a senior or two some day, all who have years of experience playing in the Syracuse system, you have to invest in freshmen playing very significant minutes from the start.

Pretty clear if kids don't play a lot right away, and you aren't a top 5 program, the kids will go somewhere else where playing time looks easier to come by.

Still hoping we can find a transfer with a year left who could come in, help bridge the gap, help mentor the youngsters in the ways of college ball. If that is not happening (sure sounds that way), I guess we have to hope the kids develop faster than many of us expect.

 

[Trueblue25]

I’d say a lot of teams hope since there are no guarantees.

A lot of teams play badly and don’t qualify for the postseason.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It is going to hurt short term but if this gets most or all of the kids in the class to buy in and stay at Syracuse for most or all of their college careers, you can argue it is well worth it.

From what I have seen, all the kids can play. Most won't be quite ready to play well at this level right away and there are going to be growing pains.

But it appears that if you want a team with sophomores, juniors and dare I say a senior or two some day, all who have years of experience playing in the Syracuse system, you have to invest in freshmen playing very significant minutes from the start.

Pretty clear if kids don't play a lot right away, and you aren't a top 5 program, the kids will go somewhere else where playing time looks easier to come by.

Still hoping we can find a transfer with a year left who could come in, help bridge the gap, help mentor the youngsters in the ways of college ball. If that is not happening (sure sounds that way), I guess we have to hope the kids develop faster than many of us expect.

The issue is we have been saying we are a year away since 17-18...And each season we have had injuries or mostly transfers that have prevented that from happening so the fans are skeptical and are sick of playing for the next season that never happens.

JB isn't going to get a pass if he doesn't put a winning team together this year. Fans are done with it.

 

[FrancoPizza]

It is going to hurt short term but if this gets most or all of the kids in the class to buy in and stay at Syracuse for most or all of their college careers, you can argue it is well worth it.

From what I have seen, all the kids can play. Most won't be quite ready to play well at this level right away and there are going to be growing pains.

But it appears that if you want a team with sophomores, juniors and dare I say a senior or two some day, all who have years of experience playing in the Syracuse system, you have to invest in freshmen playing very significant minutes from the start.

Pretty clear if kids don't play a lot right away, and you aren't a top 5 program, the kids will go somewhere else where playing time looks easier to come by.

Still hoping we can find a transfer with a year left who could come in, help bridge the gap, help mentor the youngsters in the ways of college ball. If that is not happening (sure sounds that way), I guess we have to hope the kids develop faster than many of us expect.

So you really think he’s gonna give all 6 freshmen significant playing time? Even before the portal I would say it’s likely 2 of the 6 will bail after riding the bench the first couple years. There’s only so many minutes to go around. Wouldn’t surprise me if only 2 out of the group somehow stay here all 4 years.

It’s in the program’s best interest to find a 1 year hired gun to help fill an immediate need. It’s either lazy or disillusioned (or both) for JB to believe we can just roll with the current roster and not try to replace Cole.

 

[FrancoPizza]

The issue is we have been saying we are a year away since 17-18...And each season we have had injuries or mostly transfers that have prevented that from happening so the fans are skeptical and are sick of playing for the next season that never happens.

JB isn't going to get a pass if he doesn't put a winning team together this year. Fans are done with it.

Fans need to speak with their wallet or it may not matter. I think many fans are beyond ready for a change but they don’t want to lose their seats that they waited so long to move up to. That’s why we see so many no shows in the 100s every game. Not a good look… but the school still collects the cash.

 

[rrlbees]

Fans need to speak with their wallet or it may not matter.

Yep, that’ll help.

 

[sutomcat]

The issue is we have been saying we are a year away since 17-18...And each season we have had injuries or mostly transfers that have prevented that from happening so the fans are skeptical and are sick of playing for the next season that never happens.

JB isn't going to get a pass if he doesn't put a winning team together this year. Fans are done with it.

I agree.

It is odd that a HC near the end of his career would be so concerned about long term ramifications of what he is doing instead of the short term ramifications.

Maybe JB was only able to get this class to commit by promising them he would not bring in players from the portal they would have to compete with?

The only reason they looked for a center in the portal is because we lost one.

 

[UpstateSM]

We might be better than we were last season just because our coach doesn’t feel the need to revolve our offense around an unathletic shooting guard without any moves to create for himself off the dribble backing down defenders from the three point line and shooting fadeaways

 

[rrlbees]

We might be better than we were last season just because our coach doesn’t feel the need to revolve our offense around an unathletic shooting guard without any moves to create for himself off the dribble backing down defenders from the three point line and shooting fadeaways

You mean the 1st team all ACC player?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Great post Day2, totally agree. It also help mitigate transferitis at the end of the year.

I see 3 frosh getting PT and the other 3 gathering splinters. Some of it is math and some is they are not ready.

 

[pearl31]

JB doesn’t want that type of player. He wants to give the freshman forwards breathing room. Whether it’s a senior transfer or a freshman (or anyone in between) taking Swider’s spot, it’s going to take until at least January to become fully acclimated with our defense. Why not give those minutes to someone who’ll be around for awhile?

For the last couple of years, you’ve been talking about giving the freshmen more minutes, if not starting them. Now it’s happening and it’s not good enough?

We have four guys coming in who can play forward. They’ll be the fifth option on offense. It’s not outside the realm of possibility for one or two of these guys to be serviceable.

Yes, I agree that this is a) why JB is handling the roster this way and b) there's a chance it will work out quite well, especially if 2 of the frosh forward can contribute right away. And this thread is meant to address the prospects of the team for the '22-23 season - in order for that team to be successful (i.e., make the tourney) there's a whole lot of hope in play - this isn't to say it's impossible that the hope becomes reality, but there's no way that anyone even partially objective can look at it and not be skeptical. And as 0307 notes above, fans have had it with unsuccessful seasons.

 

[MikeSU02]

The issue is we have been saying we are a year away since 17-18...And each season we have had injuries or mostly transfers that have prevented that from happening so the fans are skeptical and are sick of playing for the next season that never happens.

JB isn't going to get a pass if he doesn't put a winning team together this year. Fans are done with it.

And the other thing is that there is zero chance all six guys are back next year. First, JB is not playing all six of them major minutes. Second, just by the sheer numbers, a few won't be happy.

We'll be lucky if we have 4 of the 6 back for sophomore year. And I think that is a stretch.

 

[5OutFred]

The issue is we have been saying we are a year away since 17-18...And each season we have had injuries or mostly transfers that have prevented that from happening so the fans are skeptical and are sick of playing for the next season that never happens.

JB isn't going to get a pass if he doesn't put a winning team together this year. Fans are done with it.

Planning on being a year away in modern college basketball is an extreme gamble. EXTREME. 'Programs' hardly exist in the same fashion - it's now a year-by-year process. Chalk it up to 'unexpected departures' great programs overcome these by plugging in guys with experience so there is no yearly decline in the program, as we've seen happen with the Orange.

Ex: say Jesse and/or Joe leaves after next season 'unexpectedly', then you're left with little experience, thus creating 'a year away' scenario yet again, as we've seen happen in recent years. The modern system of CBB, whether fans like it or not, is built on one to two year increments.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Planning on being a year away in modern college basketball is an extreme gamble. EXTREME. 'Programs' hardly exist in the same fashion - it's now a year-by-year process. Chalk it up to 'unexpected departures' great programs overcome these by plugging in guys with experience so there is no yearly decline in the program, as we've seen happen with the Orange.

Ex: say Jesse and/or Joe leaves after next season 'unexpectedly', then you're left with little experience, thus creating 'a year away' scenario yet again, as we've seen happen in recent years. The modern system of CBB, whether fans like it or not, is built on one to two year increments.

Oh I fully expect both to leave, but JB is all in on the 2022 class long term and expects them to be good. That's why he thinks 2023 is our year.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Maybe JB was only able to get this class to commit by promising them he would not bring in players from the portal they would have to compete with?

How sad is that if it is true, that to land these kids we have to promise them nobody is coming in from the portal?

There have been alot of decisions that have had a cumulative effect of getting to where this is a very inexperienced roster
Giving out charity scholarships to legacies
Continuing to recruit JBA when his recruiting ranking sunk like a stone to #480. (Staff must have believed it was due to injuries and there was something there)
Not replacing Brycen Goodine when he transferred to ensure 4 guards on scholarship
Having the class of 20 be entirely gone by their sophmore year at the end of 22
Only signing 1 recruit in class of 21, I know they pursued Arthur Kaluma but after that they should have tried to use the last scholarship on a project willing to wait and be in the program multiple years. Maybe that guy develops. The staff can develop players from time to time, I will credit them for that.
So far in 22, 1500 players in the portal, there is some talent out there, yet the staff has avoided the portal like its the plague by only pursuing 1 who is from Syracuse who avg a pt and a rb per game.
The name of the game is talent accumulation, fill in your weak spots from the portal, try to build a roster that can compete for a conference championship. Its been 8 years since they competed for a conference title.

 

[5OutFred]

Oh I fully expect both to leave, but JB is all in on the 2022 class long term and expects them to be good. That's why he thinks 2023 is our year.

As others have noted, expecting a 6 person class to stay happy and even be there long term is a fool's wish.

The frustration develops from fans in that it doesn't have to be this way - the portal exists so that you can fill the necessary needs to be good year by year, and still keep a few of your 'core' happy. But the likelihood that the 6 person class largely stays together even 3 years is almost impossible IMO.

 

[DilemaCuse]

As others have noted, expecting a 6 person class to stay happy and even be there long term is a fool's wish.

The frustration develops from fans in that it doesn't have to be this way - the portal exists so that you can fill the necessary needs to be good year by year, and still keep a few of your 'core' happy. But the likelihood that the 6 person class largely stays together even 3 years is almost impossible IMO.

Its almost like everyone realizes this except JB. I dont know what else to think at this point.

 

[kcsu]

at least as I see it:

HOPE that at least 2 of the 3 freshmen forwards can score and defend from day one. HOPE that Edwards can play aggressively without fouling a lot. HOPE that between Bol-Ajok/Carey/Brown there is sufficient backup at center for when Edwards is in foul trouble or injured. HOPE that the team can scrap together enough wins this upcoming season to be a tournament team. HOPE that throwing the freshmen to the wolves this year makes them battle-tested and a formidable team for next year and beyond. HOPE that...
yeah, I think you get it

I believe that there is a strong probability that next season is the swan song for the leader from Lyons. By playing a young team he will have set up Red for a successful first season. That is my two cents.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I believe that there is a strong probability that next season is the swan song for the leader from Lyons. By playing a young team he will have set up Red for a successful first season. That is my two cents.

LOL. So what you are saying is he's guaranteed to be back for 2023 based on how 99% of your predictions go.

 

[007]

I believe that there is a strong probability that next season is the swan song for the leader from Lyons. By playing a young team he will have set up Red for a successful first season. That is my two cents.

No problem with you expressing your 2 cents.

Different 2 cent opinion: Playing players at the expense of the current season to develop players for the following season is something that JB has never done (i realize you are suggesting this precedent as part of his enlightened retirement succession plan). Nor does playing a young team necessarily "set up" success. Even if the assumption about it being JB's last season pans out, JB believes that he can win THIS coming season with what he has currently on the roster. He will not want to retire (or quit as he called it) if next year's team has another losing season. So...that will more likely mean a primary rotation of 3 guards, 3 Fs and 1.25 at the 5. Based on recent history, 3-4 players are likely to play 30+ minutes (Judah, Joe, Jesse and maybe Benny). The chances that more than 1 from that group return the following season are not high IMO.

 

[SUFan44]

I believe that there is a strong probability that next season is the swan song for the leader from Lyons. By playing a young team he will have set up Red for a successful first season. That is my two cents.

A LOT of variables there.

Let's say next year's starting 5 is Edwards, Mintz, Girard, Williams, Bunch. For argument's sake.

Let's say Edwards has a big year. He's going to the NBA.

Girard will likely leave as a graduate.

Mintz could be one-and-done if he has the year people on this board project him to.

That's three starters gone. Not to mention Benny Williams, who could also have a productive year and leave. Or he could have a non productive year and leave. Who's to say?

By playing a young team, the only guarantee you have is you're putting an inexperienced team out there in 2021-22. That's it. With the transfer portal and all of the other options kids have, coaches are foolish if they are "setting up for next year".

 

[SUFan44]

No problem with you expressing your 2 cents.

Different 2 cent opinion: Playing players at the expense of the current season to develop players for the following season is something that JB has never done (i realize you are suggesting this precedent as part of his enlightened retirement succession plan). Nor does playing a young team necessarily "set up" success. Even if the assumption about it being JB's last season pans out, JB believes that he can win THIS coming season with what he has currently on the roster. He will not want to retire (or quit as he called it) if next year's team has another losing season. So...that will more likely mean a primary rotation of 3 guards, 3 Fs and 1.25 at the 5. Based on recent history, 3-4 players are likely to play 30+ minutes (Judah, Joe, Jesse and maybe Benny). The chances that more than 1 from that group return the following season are not high IMO.

You said it differently than I did, but agree 100%.

He's never done it this way - so what has changed? And there's no guarantee the following year will work out as planned, and all return to create your "experienced" group. Too many variables.

Foolish plan if you ask me. IMO, need two transfers - a 30+ mpg forward and a 10 mpg center - if you really are interested in competing against the majority of the ACC.