The Landscape has Changed, an Uphill Battle...

[orange79]

He can pose and say all he wants. At the end of the day he has gotten beat by G5 teams. Its fine to admit, it happens to the best of coaches and recruiters. I have outlined the attractiveness of playing G5. If we are gonna believe that dino deep down didn't want some of these recruits that committed elsewhere is crazy. An offer is an offer, kids are offered for reasons. This whole yea, i asked her to the prom, but i really didnt dig her that much after she goes with another dude, is laughable.

Or, thinking someone knows more than the coaching staff, that's laughable too. As CL says above, offers can be committable or non-committable. Or, maybe the staff knows something you don't, like maybe a recruit who is better in their eyes has said more promising things. Or maybe, after offering, other issues surfaced. Or maybe, the kid was told he can commit but would probably be a 4-year backup/ST player/etc. Thinking we are being 'beaten' by G5 teams solely because we lost someone to Cincinnati or Toledo is laughable.

Why don't you save the gnashing of teeth until the class is complete? If all our other targets end up at UConn and Temple, we can revisit and I'll gladly get on the Dino may not be the answer bandwagon.

 

[anomander]

What is there to be worried about? We just landed one of the best classes we've had in the last 15 years, and that was after the 2nd consecutive 4-8 season. That's not including 2 former 4* recruits from major programs. It's not like we aren't in the top group of a bunch of highly coveted players. Recruiting is fine. If we can put together a solid season it will make recruiting that much easier. Far too much time and way too much still to show class of 19 kids. I'll check back in late August.

 

[Ish88888]

Or, thinking someone knows more than the coaching staff, that's laughable too. As CL says above, offers can be committable or non-committable. Or, maybe the staff knows something you don't, like maybe a recruit who is better in their eyes has said more promising things. Or maybe, after offering, other issues surfaced. Or maybe, the kid was told he can commit but would probably be a 4-year backup/ST player/etc. Thinking we are being 'beaten' by G5 teams solely because we lost someone to Cincinnati or Toledo is laughable.

Why don't you save the gnashing of teeth until the class is complete? If all our other targets end up at UConn and Temple, we can revisit and I'll gladly get on the Dino may not be the answer bandwagon.

I know i have a target on my back. Just a discussion. Not bashing Dino, more about the landscape of recruiting and the increased allure of G5. Also, my post wasnt fueled by 3 cincy commits that we offered. If my postvis off base then yours is on the other side of the spectrum. So, there is an excuse for every kid that doesnt commit? In the end, if they did commit, we would have Been already moved on to other bigger talents? Sorry, don't believe it. Just tryin to have a subjective discussion about recruiting as a whole. Yes, the best get beat by G5 schools, and that's OK. Just not gonna hear the argument that these offers didn't matter anymore. Lastly, it's sonetimes impossible to have a discussion about DINO if one isnt throwing accolade after accolade. He is in a tough spot given our location, our facilities, and the attractiveness of playing G5 football. Thats all this is about. Hope we kill it the rest of the way. Just a discussion, ...for the love of God.

 

[RandomGuy]

Nah...not as


Don't think playing close to home is huge. If it's the trend, then we are in trouble given our geography. Look at most rosters, they are filled with players coast to coast, Canada to Texas. You commit to where you are the best fit, not where mom and dad can drive 2 hrs to see you play. If both meet, then that's perfection.

Playing near home is only huge, if you are the player. If you can drive, great. If you gotta fly, so be it. Closer with a good fit, will often win. Been like that forever. It's gotta be a big deal, for many kids, to fly.

 

[orange79]

I know i have a target on my back. Just a discussion. Not bashing Dino, more about the landscape of recruiting and the increased allure of G5. Also, my post wasnt fueled by 3 cincy commits that we offered. If my postvis off base then yours is on the other side of the spectrum. So, there is an excuse for every kid that doesnt commit? In the end, if they did commit, we would have Been already moved on to other bigger talents? Sorry, don't believe it. Just tryin to have a subjective discussion about recruiting as a whole. Yes, the best get beat by G5 schools, and that's OK. Just not gonna hear the argument that these offers didn't matter anymore. Lastly, it's sonetimes impossible to have a discussion about DINO if one isnt throwing accolade after accolade. He is in a tough spot given our location, our facilities, and the attractiveness of playing G5 football. Thats all this is about. Hope we kill it the rest of the way. Just a discussion, ...for the love of God.

I don't want every discussion of Dino to be accolade after accolade. But to make numerous posts hinting there are issues that don't exist...

Of course there is a reason/excuse for every kid that doesn't commit. Every single one. We may not like them, but they exist.

 

[RandomGuy]

I know i have a target on my back. Just a discussion. Not bashing Dino, more about the landscape of recruiting and the increased allure of G5. Also, my post wasnt fueled by 3 cincy commits that we offered. If my postvis off base then yours is on the other side of the spectrum. So, there is an excuse for every kid that doesnt commit? In the end, if they did commit, we would have Been already moved on to other bigger talents? Sorry, don't believe it. Just tryin to have a subjective discussion about recruiting as a whole. Yes, the best get beat by G5 schools, and that's OK. Just not gonna hear the argument that these offers didn't matter anymore. Lastly, it's sonetimes impossible to have a discussion about DINO if one isnt throwing accolade after accolade. He is in a tough spot given our location, our facilities, and the attractiveness of playing G5 football. Thats all this is about. Hope we kill it the rest of the way. Just a discussion, ...for the love of God.

For the 3250 kids that commit to FBS schools, there will be an excuse for 3225..

I share your concerns that we're slightly behind. Cuselegacy showed that we were only at 6, this time, last year. Not as bad as I thought. Dino"s explanation makes sense to me.

As far as g5 "allure" I'm not buying it.
Majority of kids want the best fit, in the biggest school/location/degree , IMO. If there is a trend to g5? It'd be interesting to see, if you have the data.

 

[Ish88888]

For the 3250 kids that commit to FBS schools, there will be an excuse for 3225..

I share your concerns that we're slightly behind. Cuselegacy showed that we were only at 6, this time, last year. Not as bad as I thought. Dino"s explanation makes sense to me.

As far as g5 "allure" I'm not buying it.
Majority of kids want the best fit, in the biggest school/location/degree , IMO. If there is a trend to g5? It'd be interesting to see, if you have the data.

All i am saying is look at the subjective lately. Buffalo is a great example. Playing in front of 10k on a good night, the raiders kb, 3 in the top 100 recruits this year. The MAV on tv Probably more than us, wake, Bc, all the mid to bottom dwellers of the P5. The exposure at G5 has catched up. Just a thought and theory for part of our struggles. Hell, it's June and something to discuss. Love the staff but the loss of Lewis could hurt. This staff is full of knowledge, system, and charm.

 

[RandomGuy]

Checked recruiting grades. Top g5 scored 160, last year, we were at 186. Overall, p5 is going to win. I found the data. 36 four stars, and one 5 star(only one, ever) have committed to g5 since 2012.
Highly Touted Recruits Who Chose the AAC Over the Power 5

I don't see any commits for buffalo?

 

[kcsu]

All i am saying is look at the subjective lately. Buffalo is a great example. Playing in front of 10k on a good night, the raiders kb, 3 in the top 100 recruits this year. The MAV on tv Probably more than us, wake, Bc, all the mid to bottom dwellers of the P5. The exposure at G5 has catched up. Just a thought and theory for part of our struggles. Hell, it's June and something to discuss. Love the staff but the loss of Lewis could hurt. This staff is full of knowledge, system, and charm.

This will end up being a smaller numbers class but it will have exceptional talent. Dino and the staff are doing just fine.

 

[DoctorBombay]

All i am saying is look at the subjective lately. Buffalo is a great example. Playing in front of 10k on a good night, the raiders kb, 3 in the top 100 recruits this year. The MAV on tv Probably more than us, wake, Bc, all the mid to bottom dwellers of the P5. The exposure at G5 has catched up. Just a thought and theory for part of our struggles. Hell, it's June and something to discuss. Love the staff but the loss of Lewis could hurt. This staff is full of knowledge, system, and charm.

I can buy a little anxiety with the slow pace of recruiting, as well as fearing that the loss of Lewis might be a factor. But...I simply don't see where you're getting this "G5 has caught up in exposure...blah blah blah" outlook. That just seems overblown at this point, and honestly, it denigrates our program to an unjustified level. We've been bad, no doubt about that. But we're not at the level that your premise seems to suggest. JMHO

 

[Ish88888]

I can buy a little anxiety with the slow pace of recruiting, as well as fearing that the loss of Lewis might be a factor. But...I simply don't see where you're getting this "G5 has caught up in exposure...blah blah blah" outlook. That just seems overblown at this point, and honestly, it denigrates our program to an unjustified level. We've been bad, no doubt about that. But we're not at the level that your premise seems to suggest. JMHO

Thats where you need to detach my take from just our program. My take is about many P5 programs struggling losing a few to G5. That's all.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Thats where you need to detach my take from just our program. My take is about many P5 programs struggling losing a few to G5. That's all.

Oh, ok- that clears it up a bit, but I still don’t buy it. Even if we see some erosion in recruiting for lesser P5 programs the fact still remains that the G5 is losing clout, and is on track to lose even more as time goes on. The b-ball anology would be a kid choosing Gonzaga over Duke. He might get to a Final 4 w/ Gonzaga, but the exposure of playing on a P5 team like Duke can’t be beat. And in ftball it’s even more pronounced. A UCF, USF, or Temple, will never match up to the likes of even a P5 bottom feeder like Rutgers. Bottom line, a kid might choose a higher level G5 but the real question is, do you put SU at that bottom feeder level, or higher? I say we’re a better choice than a G5- but the key is winning. If Dino starts winning your premise is moot. That, imho, is what will likely happen moving forward.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So you're telling me by the end of the recruiting cycle we're going to have a class full of .8 star commits?

 

[Ish88888]

Oh, ok- that clears it up a bit, but I still don’t buy it. Even if we see some erosion in recruiting for lesser P5 programs the fact still remains that the G5 is losing clout, and is on track to lose even more as time goes on. The b-ball anology would be a kid choosing Gonzaga over Duke. He might get to a Final 4 w/ Gonzaga, but the exposure of playing on a P5 team like Duke can’t be beat. And in ftball it’s even more pronounced. A UCF, USF, or Temple, will never match up to the likes of even a P5 bottom feeder like Rutgers. Bottom line, a kid might choose a higher level G5 but the real question is, do you put SU at that bottom feeder level, or higher? I say we’re a better choice than a G5- but the key is winning. If Dino starts winning your premise is moot. That, imho, is what will likely happen moving forward.

With all due respect, you tripped yourself with the programs you mentioned. They all have superior talent than us and have for over 5 years. They are the perfect example of playing for a program with some juice, more TV exposure than us, excellent cosching, and feeding the NFL.

 

[DoctorBombay]

With all due respect, you tripped yourself with the programs you mentioned. They all have superior talent than us and have for over 5 years. They are the perfect example of playing for a program with some juice, more TV exposure than us, excellent cosching, and feeding the NFL.

Right now, you may be right about the talent level. But I’m looking at the future as are most SU fans. A “once-in-a-blue-moon” undefeated UCF team, can never consistently compete w/ a P5 program over time. Talk to me in 5 years when SU is steadily playing in bowls, & UCF/USF/Temple, is struggling to crack the top 10 & play in a major bowl. One Gonzaga-like ftball program can’t compete w/ a steady drumbeat of P5 programs getting millions more, even if they are bottom feeders. UCF iS not a powerhouse, and losing a recruit here & there doesn’t signal a sea-change for our program. That’s overthinking things a bit, IMO.

 

[Domedog84]

All i am saying is look at the subjective lately. Buffalo is a great example. Playing in front of 10k on a good night, the raiders kb, 3 in the top 100 recruits this year. The MAV on tv Probably more than us, wake, Bc, all the mid to bottom dwellers of the P5. The exposure at G5 has catched up. Just a thought and theory for part of our struggles. Hell, it's June and something to discuss. Love the staff but the loss of Lewis could hurt. This staff is full of knowledge, system, and charm.

The MAC is on TV more than us? They have weekly Tuesday or Wednesday night ESPN2 games right? We play FSU on ABC at noon on a Saturday. Where are the nationally televised MAC games on Saturday unless they are playing a P5 team? I can understand the desire to start filling out this class, but saying that G5 or MAC offer equal or more exposure than ACC is a wild take in my opinion. We can’t take 300 recruits so we will lose about 280 of our offers.

 

[CuseLegacy]

He can pose and say all he wants. At the end of the day he has gotten beat by G5 teams. Its fine to admit, it happens to the best of coaches and recruiters. I have outlined the attractiveness of playing G5. If we are gonna believe that dino deep down didn't want some of these recruits that committed elsewhere is crazy. An offer is an offer, kids are offered for reasons. This whole yea, i asked her to the prom, but i really didnt dig her that much after she goes with another dude, is laughable.

No. All offers are not equal...whatever you may want to think. And however you want to twist information to fit your narrative the coaches aren't losing recruiting battles to G5 schools.

 

[gbo]

No. All offers are not equal...whatever you may want to think. And however you want to twist information to fit your narrative the coaches aren't losing recruiting battles to G5 schools.

More than likely those offers weren't committable. It happens all the time. Kids will still list those programs even though they know they won't be able to attend. It happens to Clemson.

 

[TheCusian]

He can pose and say all he wants. At the end of the day he has gotten beat by G5 teams. Its fine to admit, it happens to the best of coaches and recruiters. I have outlined the attractiveness of playing G5. If we are gonna believe that dino deep down didn't want some of these recruits that committed elsewhere is crazy. An offer is an offer, kids are offered for reasons. This whole yea, i asked her to the prom, but i really didnt dig her that much after she goes with another dude, is laughable.

*every* Syracuse coach has had this happen to them - most low level P5 teams see this. It's not great, but no reason to freak out

 

[billorange44]

While this Probably belongs on the recruiting board, I feel more of us will see it here. The last week or so has really opened my eyes to just how many recruiting battles we are losing and have lost. I get it, every program has multiple disappointments in recruiting every year. That said seeing UB place 2-3 kids in the top 100 pro prospects, constantly losing battles to G5 teams, and currently having 1 commit for 2019; has gotten my attention. Looking at sports and tracking who we have offered, i see 90% "cool" and about 10% "warm" when it comes to interest levels.

Recruiting has always been tough, but never tougher for a P5 school like us. We have zero advantages over a G5 and one might argue that it makes more sense attending a G5. Early playing time, coaching on par, playing vs. Comparable talent, and as much, if not more TV games. That's tough to beat.

The dome isn't what it used to be, our locker rooms have a band aid until the big reno happens, the IPF is average at best, still lacks the finishing touches, and the silver seated bubble in the sky , as much as i love it and have defended it, needs that face lift for these reasons alone.

Love Dino and his staff, but all the charm in the world as well as football acumen and having an atttactive system to play in; isnt going to get it done without the help of a bright, new, natural light and hip dome. Add in local food and beverage and electronics and AC. Recruiting for the .500 or worse P5 is tougher than ever.

I have been away for a while, but I would like to make a point. Recruiting has always been tough at SU. I am not sure if you were around for the Frank Maloney years, but he brought in some really good talent to play in old Archbold. Monk, Morris, Hurley and others. Archbold was in way worse condition than the Dome. When they used to refer to Archbold as "crumbling old Archbold", it was a fact.

 

[PhatOrange]

What kids did we lose to G5 ?

 

[djorange1989]

What kids did we lose to G5 ?

we didn't, Ish clearly doesn't know the difference between an offer and a committable offer. we have offered 300 kids for 2019, a couple of them committed to Cincy and Toledo, and all of a sudden we are losing kids to G5 schools. As slow as the staff is playing things this cycle, damn good chance those kids were backup plans.

 

[javadoc]

we didn't, Ish clearly doesn't know the difference between an offer and a committable offer. we have offered 300 kids for 2019, a couple of them committed to Cincy and Toledo, and all of a sudden we are losing kids to G5 schools. As slow as the staff is playing things this cycle, damn good chance those kids were backup plans.

Have you heard of any studies regarding whether the cost of living stipend is affecting kids’ decisions?

 

[djorange1989]

Have you heard of any studies regarding whether the cost of living stipend is affecting kids’ decisions?

I have not

 

[JrodCuse]

What kids did we lose to G5 ?

Bryce Golden and Oshun...too soon?