The Landscape has Changed, an Uphill Battle...

[Alsacs]

The OP with his passive aggressive shots at Dino.
Sorry Shafer got fired.
It had to be done for the sake of the program.
Dino is cleaning up a giant rebuild.
He has a plan.
He has had two recruiting classes and is bringing in more talent than the previous coaches.
He needs to win 6 games but the guy is the man for the job and has 100% confidence from me in being the guy to get the job done.
Our recruiting is least of my worries from Dino.
Dino gets it.
Our previous coach didn’t.
Dino is increasing the depth so injuries don’t kill us in December.
He just needs 6 wins to shut up the naysayers even though he is the best guy for the job.

 

[Ish88888]

The MAC is on TV more than us? They have weekly Tuesday or Wednesday night ESPN2 games right? We play FSU on ABC at noon on a Saturday. Where are the nationally televised MAC games on Saturday unless they are playing a P5 team? I can understand the desire to start filling out this class, but saying that G5 or MAC offer equal or more exposure than ACC is a wild take in my opinion. We can’t take 300 recruits so we will lose about 280 of our offers.

A singled, isolated MAC game on during the week probably pulls a better rating than a noon Saturday game with about 10 other games on at the same time.

 

[Ish88888]

*every* Syracuse coach has had this happen to them - most low level P5 teams see this. It's not great, but no reason to freak out

Nah, not freaking out, just a discussion.

 

[Trueblue25]

Took my a week to realize this is for football.


Could not be less concerned with our recruiting.

 

[Trueblue25]

Another thing thats gone largely unnoticed though.


You know how we all got excited about Jawar Jordan then he went academically ineligible?

Guess who got back on the circuit, opened up mississippi and got us an AAC/SEC calibre grown man back?

Guess who wouldve just waited for next class or settled for a lesser talent

 

[MSOrange]

A singled, isolated MAC game on during the week probably pulls a better rating than a noon Saturday game with about 10 other games on at the same time.

I'd be interested to see what Scooch or MadNY3 would say about this.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I'd be interested to see what Scooch or MadNY3 would say about this.

But that would involve a factual argument.

 

[Domedog84]

A singled, isolated MAC game on during the week probably pulls a better rating than a noon Saturday game with about 10 other games on at the same time.

But even if what you assert is true that is likely the only nationally televised MAC game of the week. During conference play the ACC certainly has more than that. Look we just beat Cincy and Kent State for a recruit so perhaps this massive G5 shift is a bit premature. I am happy we get ACC money and exposure instead of one game a year on the deuce at 7pm on a Wednesday.

 

[richard levy]

Playing near home is only huge, if you are the player. If you can drive, great. If you gotta fly, so be it. Closer with a good fit, will often win. Been like that forever. It's gotta be a big deal, for many kids, to fly.

Unlike top level HS B-BALL kids who seem to have more opportunity to travel, I think the football kids seem to want to stay closer to home since they are less accustomed to traveling at a relatively young age. The amount of traveling distance does seem to seem to be increasing somewhat for some FB teams especially for some schools due to ESPN events, but less costly to ship a b-ball team than a fball team.

 

[RandomGuy]

Unlike top level HS B-BALL kids who seem to have more opportunity to travel, I think the football kids seem to want to stay closer to home since they are less accustomed to traveling at a relatively young age. The amount of traveling distance does seem to seem to be increasing somewhat for some FB teams especially for some schools due to ESPN events, but less costly to ship a b-ball team than a fball team.

I think the difference for football, is S & C. School has them from the 1st day of summer class(May), 'til New year's(assuming bowl). Maybe they get a chance to go home 4th of July.

It really comes down to what Mom can handle. Dad, too, and how much the kid is willing to give up, to not see his family. If family can drive, maybe they see each other for a couple hours, here and there. Just like it'd be important for your family, it is for theirs.

While I disagree with ish, I thought it was an interesting discussion. The #'s do show that 36 four stars have gone g5, in the last 6 years. I saw 1,000 kids go to Temple camp, and they bagged 5. While I firmly disagree, I don't think his concerns were completely baseless. Requiring more patience? yes. If nothing else, I think he raised a larger question, on what it takes to get a kid to commit to Cuse. I like that part of the discussion.

 

[NJCuse97]

I think the difference for football, is S & C. School has them from the 1st day of summer class(May), 'til New year's(assuming bowl). Maybe they get a chance to go home 4th of July.

It really comes down to what Mom can handle. Dad, too, and how much the kid is willing to give up, to not see his family. If family can drive, maybe they see each other for a couple hours, here and there. Just like it'd be important for your family, it is for theirs.

While I disagree with ish, I thought it was an interesting discussion. The #'s do show that 36 four stars have gone g5, in the last 6 years. I saw 1,000 kids go to Temple camp, and they bagged 5. While I firmly disagree, I don't think his concerns were completely baseless. Requiring more patience? yes. If nothing else, I think he raised a larger question, on what it takes to get a kid to commit to Cuse. I like that part of the discussion.

And you think that is a strength and conditioning program or something else? I’m sure is an amalgam of things, but what do you think are the main ingredients we have and truly what are we still missing that could swing the gate and put us over the top?

 

[RandomGuy]

S + C will help to keep them there from May-Jan. The flip side, is the kid gets to work towards his master's.

Recruits know that P5 schollies are "guaranteed". (Sort of). COA may be a factor for some families chosing P5 over G5. Many recruits will want to play in the highest possible division.

The Dome(especially, a new one), will have some appeal, for many recruits. Staff is genuine, and very well liked. Just check Dino's locker room speeches. Last years class is a reflection of more kids wanting to be a part of it. Being in the ACC, and Babers recruiting to it, will pay dividends. That has improved the "landscape.". The Big East was weakened from 2002-2012. Cuse is back where it belongs.

Obviously, winning will make it easier for more kids to make the trip. That's all we're missing, and it's coming.

 

[cuse309]

If I'm a recruit, and I'm interested in a couple of schools, Syracuse being one of them, I'm on a wait and see approach at this point. Wait and see how the team looks this year for a while. Is the team truly improving, or is Dino just selling his program to me. If I were a recruit, I would want to play for a team that wins more than it loses. Therefore, there is no way in hell I would commit to a school like Syracuse at this point. Maybe I love their academics, maybe I love the campus, maybe I love the proximity to home...then again maybe my other top school offers all those things, plus the added benefit of likely winning more than you lose. Recruiting is slow right now, but I would expect an uptick if they can show it on the field before December.

 

[RandomGuy]

You may have a point. But if a recruit wants to guarantee his spot, it's better to sit down earlier, or it may be gone. I think the last 2 classes show that it is just as important for a recruit to have a staff, that they truly believe in. Offensive players will see a system they can stand out in. Wins are important(they see them coming), but there is more to it, than just the previous year. (Ex. Younger team could lead to earning a spot earlier, etc..)

Syracuse is a great choice!

 

[DoctorBombay]

IMO, it is, was, and always will be about individual preference. If a kid takes a liking to a certain staff or coach, they’ll go wherever that staff/coach goes- we’ve seen it hundreds of times.
Dino has a plan, which is solid, measurable, and doable. By almost every metric, especially recruiting, we’re on the uptick. The most important factor as always is winning. We do that, and this thread subject can be forever showcased for the overreaction that it is.

 

[cuse309]

Everyone was cool with being patient with Dino's massive rebuild when he was hired. No intelligent football fan should have expected him to have this machine finished, and humming by year 2 or even 3. People who have no patience, seem to have forgotten that they need to be patient.

 

[RandomGuy]

Everyone was cool with being patient with Dino's massive rebuild when he was hired. No intelligent football fan should have expected him to have this machine finished, and humming by year 2 or even 3. People who have no patience, seem to have forgotten that they need to be patient.

Recruits will notice that the national championship game was led by 2 elite 11 QBs from the class of 17. They should full well know, that Cuse has another, with 4 years of eligibility. If they look ahead, it's easy to see a good future.

 

[cuse309]

Recruits will notice that the national championship game was led by 2 elite 11 QBs from the class of 17. They should full well know, that Cuse has another, with 4 years of eligibility. If they look ahead, it's easy to see a good future.

I'm not sure it's easy to see unless you're a fan with orange tinted sunglasses. For the record, I do believe good things await, but to point to a QB who hasn't taken a snap yet, and say that recruits will see an elite 11 4 star recruit as proof that there is a good future is quite short sighted. There have been plenty of 4 star QB's, and plenty of elite 11 QB's on rosters who never panned out. In fact, the majority didn't live up to the hype. Here are just a few elite 11 finalists from 2014, up until Devitos class in 2016. The elite 11 goes all the way back to 1999. If you look at the elite 11 class from each year, there is 1 thing in common...the majority don't live up to that "elite" status.
Nobody wants TD to ball out more than me, but again...I'm looking at Syracuse through a recruits perspective, and having a 4 star QB,/elite 11 finalist probably wouldn't move the needle a whole lot for me. The majority of p5 schools can point at a 4 star QB on their roster.
Elite 11 - Wikipedia

2014 2015 2016 Elite 11 Finalists
Myles Brennan
Sean Clifford
Sam Ehlinger
Dylan McCafree
Davis Mills
Chris Robinson
Jack Sears
Sane Buechele
KJ Costello
Feleipe Franks
Malik Henry
Brandon Mcllawain
Brandon Peters
Anthony Russo
Ben Hicks
Travis Jonsen
Ricky Town
Brandon Winbush
Brady White

 

[OttoinGrotto]

For some reason this thread keeps reminding me of this.

 

[bcubs9497]

Everyone was cool with being patient with Dino's massive rebuild when he was hired. No intelligent football fan should have expected him to have this machine finished, and humming by year 2 or even 3. People who have no patience, seem to have forgotten that they need to be patient.

Agreed.

 

[RandomGuy]

I'm not sure it's easy to see unless you're a fan with orange tinted sunglasses. For the record, I do believe good things await, but to point to a QB who hasn't taken a snap yet, and say that recruits will see an elite 11 4 star recruit as proof that there is a good future is quite short sighted. There have been plenty of 4 star QB's, and plenty of elite 11 QB's on rosters who never panned out. In fact, the majority didn't live up to the hype. Here are just a few elite 11 finalists from 2014, up until Devitos class in 2016. The elite 11 goes all the way back to 1999. If you look at the elite 11 class from each year, there is 1 thing in common...the majority don't live up to that "elite" status.
Nobody wants TD to ball out more than me, but again...I'm looking at Syracuse through a recruits perspective, and having a 4 star QB,/elite 11 finalist probably wouldn't move the needle a whole lot for me. The majority of p5 schools can point at a 4 star QB on their roster.
Elite 11 - Wikipedia

2014 2015 2016 Elite 11 Finalists
Myles Brennan
Sean Clifford
Sam Ehlinger
Dylan McCafree
Davis Mills
Chris Robinson
Jack Sears
Sane Buechele
KJ Costello
Feleipe Franks
Malik Henry
Brandon Mcllawain
Brandon Peters
Anthony Russo
Ben Hicks
Travis Jonsen
Ricky Town
Brandon Winbush
Brady White

With the thread being moved to the recruiting forum, mostly I was trying to highlight the programs potential, for the recruits that read the board.

That being said, Babers has had success with QB's, like Jimmy Garoppolo. Think one of the commits had a pic of him with Babers pointing at Garoppolo's jesey. Important to have a coach with a proven record developing QBs in a passing league. I do think it's important that a top 11 QB, is waiting in the wings.

 

[Ish88888]

But even if what you assert is true that is likely the only nationally televised MAC game of the week. During conference play the ACC certainly has more than that. Look we just beat Cincy and Kent State for a recruit so perhaps this massive G5 shift is a bit premature. I am happy we get ACC money and exposure instead of one game a year on the deuce at 7pm on a Wednesday.

Thing is, this isnt about ACC $$$. This is about a kids perspective in picking a school. Never called it a massive G5 shift, the G5 has been winning and beating P5 teams fpr 5-8 years now, its proven, just look at the top MAC schools, temple, UCF, Boise, and usf for starters. Just a discussion about reasons why this steadily is on the rise.

 

[sdhall01]

Thing is, this isnt about ACC $$$. This is about a kids perspective in picking a school. Never called it a massive G5 shift, the G5 has been winning and beating P5 teams fpr 5-8 years now, its proven, just look at the top MAC schools, temple, UCF, Boise, and usf for starters. Just a discussion about reasons why this steadily is on the rise.

I think this is a little hyperbolic. G5 teams have beaten P5 teams. However, the vast majority of G5 vs. P5 match ups have resulted in P5 victories. I don't think G5 recruiting is on the rise, but I do think that from time to time you're going to get some G5 schools that punch above their recruiting weight for a year or two. Generally, those teams are going to have exciting coaches, and then those coaches will leave for P5 programs. At that point the school will fall back to a 60-100 recruiting class ranking.

Hopefully we land some great commits soon so some of this ruckus (that I have contributed to myself) will die down.

 

[Domedog84]

Thing is, this isnt about ACC $$$. This is about a kids perspective in picking a school. Never called it a massive G5 shift, the G5 has been winning and beating P5 teams fpr 5-8 years now, its proven, just look at the top MAC schools, temple, UCF, Boise, and usf for starters. Just a discussion about reasons why this steadily is on the rise.

I brought up the money in relation to your statement that the MAC gets more exposure than us, which I strongly disagreed with. Some G5 teams are beating P5 teams and sometimes kids have non-football reasons for wanting to play at schools. If we start to win consistently will this "change in the landscape" reverse? I guess I do not see this uphill battle in recruiting being caused by the rise of G5 teams as much as it is caused by us being in the middle of a rebuild and needing to string together a few bowl seasons.

 

[sutomcat]

A singled, isolated MAC game on during the week probably pulls a better rating than a noon Saturday game with about 10 other games on at the same time.

Nope.

Here are pertinent ratings for games played last season. I tried to group them by week.

Kent vs Akron Tuesday 11/21 rating unavail (242k)
FSU vs Florida Saturday 11/25 noon 1.2 (2.056m)

CMU vs Kent Tuesday 11/14 rating unavail (112k)
WMU vs N Illinois Wednesday 11/15 rating unavail (385k)
Toledo vs Bowling Green 1/15 rating unavail (175k)
UVa vs Miami Saturday 11/18 noon 2.1 (3.339m)

Toledo vs Ohio Wednesday 11/8 rating unavail (471k)
no ACC game with clean rating at noon

Miami (OH) vs Ohio Tuesday 10/31 rating unavail (276k)
Bowling Green vs Kent Tuesday 10/31 rating unavail (70k)
CMU vs WMU Wednesday 11/1 rating unavail (216k)
N Illinois vs Toledo Thursday 11/2 rating unavail (156k)
no ACC game at noon listed

Miami vs UNC Saturday 10/28 0.9 (1.419m)

UL vs FSU Saturday 10/21 noon 1.7 (2.580m)

FSU vs Duke Saturday 10/14 noon 0.6 (894k)

Wake Forest vs Clemson Saturday 10/7 noon 0.6 (864k)
no MAC games listed until 10/7

UMass vs Temple Friday 9/15 rating unavail (215k)
Okla St vs Pitt Saturday 9/16 noon 1.0 (1.621m)
UConn vs UVa Saturday 9/16 noon rating unavail (286k)

UL vs UNC Saturday 9/9 noon 1.5 (2.363m)
Northwestern vs Duke 9/9 noon rating unavail (161k)
Ohio vs Purdue Friday 9/8 8 pm rating unavail (403k)

Looks like when there is an ACC game on TV at noon on a Saturday, average viewership is 5 or 10 times higher than the midweek MAC games.

College Football TV Ratings For Every Game - Sports Media Watch