The Logical Fallacy Some Fans Have Embraced To Justify Their Criticism Of Boeheim

CousCuse

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No "suspicion of Boeheim's failings" is out of bounds.

People have opinions. But some learn to offer them with a good deal of caution when they're pitting their wits vs a coach as successful as Boeheim. Fans can certainly express their doubts about Boeheim's decisions without it sounding incredibly disrespectful and insulting.

Boeheim does have 'weaknesses' as a college basketball coach in an overall sense. We've seen for decades now that he didn't come into the job with an abundance of the kind of personal charm (like Pitino and maybe even Calipari) that can pull in Top 10 recruits on a regular basis. He's never been a slick salesman. So over his career, he has not had a sustained record of stockpiling 5-star talent.

BUT he has been able to consistently pull in sufficient quantities of Second Tier talent (and even an occasional 5-star stud) into his program who can be coached into playing well enough as a team to defeat Top Tier players in the ACC and NCAAT. Add to that the fact that there are none better at developing a team over the course of a 4-month season and his exceptional game-coaching abilities.

So he's never been the Complete Package that many SU fans have wet dreams about, but those coaches are extraordinarily rare and none of them will come to Syracuse and stay for any length of time. (Look at how successful the football program has been at getting such "Complete Package" coaches to come to Syracuse...)

Top tier centers are extremely rare, but second-tier centers with potential to become elite are more readily found. The only problem is they usually require a lot of development. Rakeem Christmas was "not ready" his first couple of years to become the player he would eventually become.

So yeah, you can Blame Boeheim for not having any MDAA's or 5-star players on this year's team and dream about the University getting lucky with Boeheim's replacement. Another option is to marvel at and enjoy what Boeheim was able to do again this year with the Second Tier talent he had to work with...
I got to wondering how practices are structured. Because of the zone defense exclusivity, do the starters all practice together as a team and the rest of the guys play the role of an opposing team? That would make perfect sense. I was pondering this in regards to Jesse. The thinking was Sidibe would be coming back until just before the GTech game. That was the point they got the news that Sid was done and Boeheim said in a PC that they were going to work Jesse in.
 

Cusesky8214

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The straw that stirs the drink

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DoctorBombay

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A month or so ago, those fans who've always felt somehow superior to Jim Boeheim stirred each other into a fevered chorus of criticism of Boeheim over the struggles this year's team was having early on. To them, Boeheim's retirement could not come soon enough. They felt the problem was obvious: Jim Boeheim couldn't see the potential in Kadary Richmond, Jesse Edwards, and Robert Braswell. He was making a serious coaching mistake by not giving his best players the lion's share of the available PT (as they saw it from their living rooms).

Now that the season has turned around, these same critics are now proclaiming that because the increased effective participation of these key reserves in recent weeks has coincided with the impressive string of victories the team has pulled off, is definitive proof that they were right and Boeheim was wrong a month ago when they were clamoring for KR, JE, and RB to be playing more.

It's a logical fallacy.

It presumes that Boeheim was not aware of the contributions that those three players could make by the end of the season, but there is zero evidence that this is true. Indeed, Boeheim was the first to identify their potential, long before any fans were aware, but he was also aware of the mistakes they were making in practice, the kind that could cause his team to lose games with unforced turnovers and/or missed opportunities.

At no time did Boeheim say anything to suggest that he didn't believe these guys would eventually be able to help the team later in the season. He only said that he didn't think they were ready to play more...yet. So THE difference of opinion between Jim Boeheim and his harshest fan critics was only ever over when these players should be getting more minutes in games. Now...or later? The fans said now, Boeheim said later.

Boeheim said later for a reason. He's been coaching teams for decades, has seen them develop over the course of a season, correcting their mistakes, getting the newer players to a level of familiarity with The Plan to where they can come into games without putting victories in jeopardy with their errors. This is why--especially early in the season--Boeheim will ALWAYS go with more experienced players if/whenever a game is in doubt.

Let the record show that Boeheim did not play them more earlier as the fans said he should. He played them later. And we now know the outcome of Boeheim ignoring the advice of fans and stubbornly coaching his team his way. He did start to give these player more PT when he felt they might be ready to contribute, and not before. That his team has turned out to be a smashing success is a supreme tribute to Jim Boeheim's coaching genius, his ability to develop a team over the course of a season into a competitive tornado.

To those fans who are now trying to take credit for the team's current success, I say feel free to embrace whatever delusional rationalizations you wish, but understand that the coincidence of the team winning big end-of-season games and the greater participation of key reserves does NOT prove your case that they should have played more earlier.

Since Boeheim did not play them earlier, it is not logically possible to infer that doing so would have achieved anything. That experiment was not tried so it's not possible to declare it a success. But Boeheim's approach was tried and the results have been spectacular. He's made his case, but you're left with an unproven theory that is extraordinarily weak and unpersuasive, IMO.
The cynicism and pettiness inherent in this thread is...depressing. Victory laps and self-professed kudos because someone "got it right", are just childish, IMO.
If you go with the premise that everyone wants the same outcome, which is SU bball success, then what's the point of this? And frankly, the timing is atrocious- right before the eve of another unlikely postseason appearance where we are, again, the talk of college basketball w/ a legit fairytale storyline playing out before us. How about we actually stop & enjoy this ride- after all, we are witnesses to magic.
But, no...instead, why don't we fixate on "I-told-you-so's", and "I-was-right", instead of the big picture? And btw- I was a critic of JB all season long, and under the same circumstances, I'd be so again. See, that's the real point here. I mostly biotched about his short bench and sub patterns. But hell, I'll admit I was misguided, and if that's not enough, I'll even say I was wrong.
But here's the thing...I don't see those things- being a critic, being a hardcore fan, and also respecting and loving JB as HC, as being mutually exclusive. They CAN all co-exist at the same time, no?
So after all this, the question that has to be asked is; "AND??? Now what? You win...i guess"? SMDH
 
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TODDNTEXAS

Walk On
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#35 plays all the minutes because he is related to the coach. Other than that, you are right.
I don’t give a rats backside if I’m right or wrong. I don’t care if Madea walks into Hinkle and suits up at Center or PG or any other position for that matter as long the ‘Cuse is cutting down the nets in Indy!
Madea Dancing GIF by BET Plus
 

Capt. Tuttle

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I don’t give a rats backside if I’m right or wrong. I don’t care if Madea walks into Hinkle and suits up at Center or PG or any other position for that matter as long the ‘Cuse is cutting down the nets in Indy!
Madea Dancing GIF by BET Plus
I was being facetious
 

ottodaorange

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The cynicism and pettiness inherent in this thread is...depressing. Victory laps and self-professed kudos because someone "got it right", are just childish, IMO.
If you go with the premise that everyone wants the same outcome, which is SU bball success, then what's the point of this? And frankly, the timing is atrocious- right before the eve of another unlikely postseason appearance where we are, again, the talk of college basketball w/ a legit fairytale storyline playing out before us. How about we actually stop & enjoy this ride- after all, we are witnesses to magic.
But, no...instead, why don't we fixate on "I-told-you-so's", and "I-was-right", instead of the big picture? And btw- I was a critic of JB all season long, and under the same circumstances, I'd be so again. See, that's the real point here. I mostly biotched about his short bench and sub patterns. But hell, I'll admit I was misguided, and if that's not enough, I'll even say I was wrong.
But here's the thing...I don't see those things- being a critic, being a hardcore fan, and also respecting and loving JB as HC, as being mutually exclusive. They CAN all co-exist at the same time, no?
So after all this, the question that has to be asked is; "AND??? Now what? You win...i guess"? SMDH
I think a good deal of this thread has to do with the people who become vituperative every time the Orange lose and want to cast blame and believe they know more than a hall of fame coach. I find these people annoying at best. Not all, but some of these critics are hate mongers. You know how you can tell? They never admit they are wrong. You did, and I respect you for that. You and I have been here for quite a while now. I believe we both go back to, was it AOL as the first version of this site? I really think it's time for people to grow up and be reasonable in their assessments. We don't have Iggy on here anymore, and if he is still here under a different name, we don't here complaints about the zone versus man to man anymore. I know what they say about opinions compared to you know what, they are often wrong and stink! And that's ok. The problem is when they become personal attacks on players and the coach. That is over the line. I think we would be a better fan base if we left anger and hate out of our opinions.
 

RoofBeam

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Dec 10, 2013
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A month or so ago, those fans who've always felt somehow superior to Jim Boeheim stirred each other into a fevered chorus of criticism of Boeheim over the struggles this year's team was having early on. To them, Boeheim's retirement could not come soon enough. They felt the problem was obvious: Jim Boeheim couldn't see the potential in Kadary Richmond, Jesse Edwards, and Robert Braswell. He was making a serious coaching mistake by not giving his best players the lion's share of the available PT (as they saw it from their living rooms).

Now that the season has turned around, these same critics are now proclaiming that because the increased effective participation of these key reserves in recent weeks has coincided with the impressive string of victories the team has pulled off, is definitive proof that they were right and Boeheim was wrong a month ago when they were clamoring for KR, JE, and RB to be playing more.

It's a logical fallacy.

It presumes that Boeheim was not aware of the contributions that those three players could make by the end of the season, but there is zero evidence that this is true. Indeed, Boeheim was the first to identify their potential, long before any fans were aware, but he was also aware of the mistakes they were making in practice, the kind that could cause his team to lose games with unforced turnovers and/or missed opportunities.

At no time did Boeheim say anything to suggest that he didn't believe these guys would eventually be able to help the team later in the season. He only said that he didn't think they were ready to play more...yet. So THE difference of opinion between Jim Boeheim and his harshest fan critics was only ever over when these players should be getting more minutes in games. Now...or later? The fans said now, Boeheim said later.

Boeheim said later for a reason. He's been coaching teams for decades, has seen them develop over the course of a season, correcting their mistakes, getting the newer players to a level of familiarity with The Plan to where they can come into games without putting victories in jeopardy with their errors. This is why--especially early in the season--Boeheim will ALWAYS go with more experienced players if/whenever a game is in doubt.

Let the record show that Boeheim did not play them more earlier as the fans said he should. He played them later. And we now know the outcome of Boeheim ignoring the advice of fans and stubbornly coaching his team his way. He did start to give these player more PT when he felt they might be ready to contribute, and not before. That his team has turned out to be a smashing success is a supreme tribute to Jim Boeheim's coaching genius, his ability to develop a team over the course of a season into a competitive tornado.

To those fans who are now trying to take credit for the team's current success, I say feel free to embrace whatever delusional rationalizations you wish, but understand that the coincidence of the team winning big end-of-season games and the greater participation of key reserves does NOT prove your case that they should have played more earlier.

Since Boeheim did not play them earlier, it is not logically possible to infer that doing so would have achieved anything. That experiment was not tried so it's not possible to declare it a success. But Boeheim's approach was tried and the results have been spectacular. He's made his case, but you're left with an unproven theory that is extraordinarily weak and unpersuasive, IMO.
When was the last time Boeheim started giving the bench more playing time toward the end of the season? ...Never????

Pat's team!
 

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