The numbers of our seasons broken down since 2014

[orangecuse]

TBF, it started half a dozen games before that, when Baye got hurt, we were eking out ugly wins over Clemson and NCSU, the starting guards' (and Fair's) offense was flatlining but the rotation was shrinking, and people like SoBeCuse (remember him?) and I were wondering what had happened to the team that put on a clinic against Duke and Nova.

BC was a long time coming. And most of the games that February were a microcosm of the six years since: round pegs in square holes.

I most certainly do remember SoBe. He was one of my favorite posters and I found myself aligning with his takes/views quite often. We had some solid PM discussions that were generally frowned upon here by many of the usual suspects. He's around in that other forum that you can link to from the above pull down menu.

 

[Alsacs]

I see complaints. I see few solutions. Complaints, alone, don’t merit counter-points. What are the solutions?

Recruit guards for 2021 and 2022.
So we have more depth.

Recruit an center that weighs over 230 and can play a little.

Don’t play exclusive 100% zone defense so we aren’t completely predictable. We can be a 90% zone team.

Stop recruiting so many projects.

Stop playing so many players of out of position.
Recruit a PG who can push the ball in transition.

It’s not like this stuff hasn’t been said for years.

 

[Cusefan0307]

He didn't say 2013 wasn't a good year. He said you can go back and trace the beginning of the decline to it. It wasn't obvious at the time, but, looking back, you could see some cracks beginning to form. We had a lot of good pieces but lacked that scorer that could break down guys in the halfcourt and get his own shot when necessary the way Waiters could the year before. When the top of the zone turned teams over and we got into transition, we were great. When teams made us score in the halfcourt, we had trouble. That hurt us in conference play that year.

The next year the 25-0 start made many ignore our flaws, but the poor finish to the regular season and poor showings in the tournaments showed where we were headed, especially once Ennis and Grant, guys we thought would develop into college stars, left early.

Since then, we have either done a poor job of grabbing elite young guys that could be studs immediately, guys with potential have left early before they could really help us, or we haven't developed other guys.

We still had great classes until 2016. We can argue we didn’t get everything out of them that we wanted, but recruiting wasn’t sliding in 2013 or 2014. And people wouldn’t be poo pooing 2014 if people made a jump shot against Dayton. McCullough..Mal...Lydon..etc

 

[MikeSU02]

But it hasn't been. Look at the number of teams in the ACC that are in the rankings or making the tournament (and their seeds) compared to the number the Big East had when we were there. It has been no harder since we joined the ACC.

im not dying on this hill, believe me. We can disagree. My point is that, to me, our day in/day out is harder. Two blue bloods, Ville, have to recruit against big time legends.

I believe the ACC, for the duration of our tenure, has been harder than what we were in on a day to day basis, especially with recruiting.

my point wasn’t to excuse JB, it was that he failed in stepping up. So instead of being slotted into the top group of teams, we landed smack in the middle.

ACC, Big East, Big Pun... whatever. My point was that we didn’t step up to the new challenge.

If you feel the BE was harder, totally fine. I’m worried about a JB that is just operating in a bubble without caring that we’re on the brink of collapse.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

This is an excellent article...https://theathletic.com/2327371/2021/01/16/syracuse-defense-struggles-in-loss-to-pitt/

 

[LoveShack]

It all started to go downhill when we were #1 in the country with a 25-0 record and then lost to a horrible Boston College team.

All because "somebody" jinkeds us and packed the wrong color shorts for the game. Otherwise Ennis and Grant stay and we go on an unpresidented string of 7 NC's

 

[Brooky03]

Recruit guards for 2021 and 2022.
So we have more depth.

Recruit an center that weighs over 230 and can play a little.

Don’t play exclusive 100% zone defense so we aren’t completely predictable. We can be a 90% zone team.

Stop recruiting so many projects.

Stop playing so many players of out of position.
Recruit a PG who can push the ball in transition.

It’s not like this stuff hasn’t been said for years.

So your problem is less with the recruiting choices and more with the ability to land recruits. So we need a recruiter. The staff isn’t choosing projects over more talented players. They’re choosing from the pool willing to commit. Large Centers who can move and want to play at Syracuse are in a very small pool. Depth at guard would be nice; I bet the staff agrees.

 

[orangecuse]

I see complaints. I see few solutions. Complaints, alone, don’t merit counter-points. What are the solutions?

Solutions? That's funny! If you believe that actually matters, then you take yourself too seriously here. Even if there were solutions pointed out (which several have mentioned but you've apparently dismissed) what action of implementing them can be done? Isn't that the job of a million dollar coach's compensation job requirement? Or, the AD's role to secure and implement accordingly?

 

[Cusefan0307]

The recruiting isn‘t changing until JB retires. He doesn’t listen to his assistants.

 

[sufandu]

I see complaints. I see few solutions. Complaints, alone, don’t merit counter-points. What are the solutions?

There have been plenty of solutions suggested on the board (not that it matters because internet suggestions don't change anything). 1)Look outside of the SU family for assistant coaches that can recruit elite talent. 2)Change the recruiting profile to skilled players that have some sort of flaw that makes them less attractive to the NBA but does not greatly hinder production in college and away from recruiting guys that make them attractive developmental prospects to the NBA, who then entice them to leave early before they have impacted the program. Stop relying solely on a zone defense that requires us to recruit skinny mobile centers that can cover the corner three but can't catch the ball and actually execute a post move or fight for a rebound and that relies on slow guards to keep opposing guards in front of them.

There have been others, but until we see our coaching do something different to make a change, you'll see the same complaints on here.

 

[Brooky03]

The recruiting isn‘t changing until JB retires. He doesn’t listen to his assistants.

Do we know this?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Do we know this?

It was posted by an insider yesterday and not the first time I’ve heard it.

 

[Brooky03]

There have been plenty of solutions suggested on the board (not that it matters because internet suggestions don't change anything). 1)Look outside of the SU family for assistant coaches that can recruit elite talent. 2)Change the recruiting profile to skilled players that have some sort of flaw that makes them less attractive to the NBA but does not greatly hinder production in college and away from recruiting guys that make them attractive developmental prospects to the NBA, who then entice them to leave early before they have impacted the program. Stop relying solely on a zone defense that requires us to recruit skinny mobile centers that can cover the corner three but can't catch the ball and actually execute a post move or fight for a rebound and that relies on slow guards to keep opposing guards in front of them.

There have been others, but until we see our coaching do something different to make a change, you'll see the same complaints on here.

Don’t recruit guys who could make the NBA?

What?

 

[Halfmooncuse]

Build a dome that up to 35000 attend games, play top teams, get broadcasters that attended SU, bring up fact the past where we had the best games on ESPN ...wait we did this?...

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Good post, but I vehemently disagree with the Hop comment. We've been worse without him than with him. One 9 game stretch doesn't tell the whole story. He got hosed. Period.

Losing Hop and Murph has really hurt. We pretty much had both bringing in one baller a year. Then we had only one a year with just Hop. Now we have zero ballers a year. We used to have Fine as the X and O guy, then the other two focusing on getting that one guy.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Losing Hop and Murph has really hurt. We pretty much had both bringing in one baller a year. Then we had only one a year with just Hop. Now we have zero ballers a year. We used to have Fine as the X and O guy, then the other two focusing on getting that one guy.

This is a great post!

 

[Cusefan0307]

JB didn’t listen to Hop either.

 

[Brooky03]

JB didn’t listen to Hop either.

What does “didn’t listen” entail? He listened to Hop when Hop went for Kaleb Joseph.

 

[Cusefan0307]

What does “didn’t listen” entail? He listened to Hop when Hop went for Kaleb Joseph.

If JB listened to Hop we may have had SGA as our point guard instead of doubling and tripling down on Quade Green.

 

[SBU72]

If you look at it another way, in 6 NCAAT, SU has had a final a 4 and sweet 16. Many schools would love that. Like many here, the PTB maybe hanging their hats on that. Plus what was the attendance for those seasons? Season sest count? Those are income numbers and probably out weigh winning prestige.
Don't necessarily agree, feeling the end should be soon but providing an opposing argument.

 

[FloridaFan]

29 percent... woof

 

[FloridaFan]

If you look at it another way, in 6 NCAAT, SU has had a final a 4 and sweet 16. Many schools would love that. Like many here, the PTB maybe hanging their hats on that. Plus what was the attendance for those seasons? Season sest count? Those are income numbers and probably out weigh winning prestige.
Don't necessarily agree, feeling the end should be soon but providing an opposing argument.

So a bunch of suckers like paying for sub .33 P6 basketball games. That’s what that arguement shows

 

[HRE Otto IV]

If you look at our PPG rankings there certainly was a style shift. Starting post GMac (cuz I don't feel like going back further):

2007 51st
2008 21st
2009 9th
2010 7th
2011 59th
2012 40th
2013 98th
2014 259th
2015 168th
2016 251st
2017 106th
2018 317th
2019 257th
2020 94th


Hence my point that things started to change in 2013. Prior to that our worst was 59th. We haven't played "SU BBall" since 2012. What we have had since has been hard to watch.

 

[Brooky03]

If JB listened to Hop we may have had SGA as our point guard instead of doubling and tripling down on Quade Green.

and I’m sure that goes the other way, too. Can’t cherry pick the times assistants were right and he went another way without noting the times they were wrong (which we’d probably never hear about).

 

[Cusefan0307]

If you look at our PPG rankings there certainly was a style shift. Starting post GMac (cuz I don't feel like going back further):

2007 51st
2008 21st
2009 9th
2010 7th
2011 59th
2012 40th
2013 98th
2014 259th
2015 168th
2016 251st
2017 106th
2018 317th
2019 257th
2020 94th


Hence my point that things started to change in 2013. Prior to that our worst was 59th. We haven't played "SU BBall" since 2012. What we have had since has been hard to watch.

The thing that changed was pace of play. Teams started to slow us down.