The numbers of our seasons broken down since 2014

[Brooky03]

Kadary statistically has been quite a bit better than Girard this year. Not sure why you have such a problem with this.

I don’t. He had good games against mid majors and is the better defender. He’s not a more efficient scorer/shooter and the stats don’t show he’s any better at setting up others (assists). For that matter, the stats don’t show that he causes turnovers (steals) at a significantly higher rate. Turnover rate is also equal.

I know, I know, “but PER says blah, blah, blah...”

 

[djcon57]

I don’t. He had good games against mid majors and is the better defender. He’s not a more efficient scorer/shooter and the stats don’t show he’s any better at setting up others (assists). For that matter, the stats don’t show that he causes turnovers (steals) at a significantly higher rate. Turnover rate is also equal.

I know, I know, “but PER says blah, blah, blah...”

he has a better ts% than girard.
he has a higher ast% than girard
His turnover% is lower than girard
his steal% is higher than girard

just because you don’t understand the numbers doesn’t give you the right to make up facts.

 

[OrangeDW]

I don’t. He had good games against mid majors and is the better defender. He’s not a more efficient scorer/shooter and the stats don’t show he’s any better at setting up others (assists). For that matter, the stats don’t show that he causes turnovers (steals) at a significantly higher rate. Turnover rate is also equal.

I know, I know, “but PER says blah, blah, blah...”

So you don’t understand how stats work. Good to know.

Kadary was great against Rutgers. Who has Joe played well against?

 

[Brooky03]

he has a better ts% than girard.
he has a higher ast% than girard
His turnover% is lower than girard
his steal% is higher than girard

just because you don’t understand the numbers doesn’t give you the right to make up facts.

higher/lower means nothing. It has to be by a statistically significant margin. Don’t get pissy with me because you don’t understand statistics. Free throws matter and Joe has the better eFG%.

It was a good effort but you lost this round.

 

[Brooky03]

So you don’t understand how stats work. Good to know.

Kadary was great against Rutgers. Who has Joe played well against?

Don’t get upset because you can’t read stats

 

[OrangeDW]

Don’t get upset because you can’t read stats

LOL. That’s literally your problem right now. But you think it’s my problem. Pretty funny.

 

[djcon57]

higher/lower means nothing. It has to be by a statistically significant margin. Don’t get pissy with me because you don’t understand statistics. Free throws matter and Joe has the better eFG%.

It was a good effort but you lost this round.

this is an embarrassing clown post. On ignore you go

 

[Brooky03]

LOL. That’s literally your problem right now. But you think it’s my problem. Pretty funny.

You’re lost. 18% and 19% are equal. 24.5% and 23.8% are equal. 50% and 50% are equal.

I did read the wrong column for Kadary’s stl%

 

[Brooky03]

this is an embarrassing clown post. On ignore you go

Bye. Be better next time

 

[Alsacs]

higher/lower means nothing. It has to be by a statistically significant margin. Don’t get pissy with me because you don’t understand statistics. Free throws matter and Joe has the better eFG%.

It was a good effort but you lost this round.

Honestly this post is embarrassing for you. I am sorry.
You are dying on a take that is just your opinion. Which is fine but it’s just your opinion and not factual.
JB himself said the defense couldn’t get better well maybe if he tried to play Kadary to start halfs the defense would be better since it’s undisputed Kadary is better defensively than Joe.
Joe was terrible yesterday.

You don’t care what player efficiency rating say because they say Kadary is better than Joe.

 

[Brooky03]

Honestly this post is embarrassing for you. I am sorry.
You are dying on a take that is just your opinion. Which is fine but it’s just your opinion and not factual.
JB himself said the defense couldn’t get better well maybe if he tried to play Kadary to start halfs the defense would be better since it’s undisputed Kadary is better defensively than Joe.
Joe has terrible.
You don’t care what player efficiency rating say because they say Kadary is better than Joe.

I don’t care about PER because I’ve never cared about PER. Boiling down a player’s value to a single number requires a lot of assumptions. Many of the advanced metrics do, which is why contextual analysis is always required. “This player has a PER of 20, so he’s a better player than this other guy with a PER of 14” is a nonsensical statement.

 

[OrangeDW]

I don’t care about PER because I’ve never cared about PER. Boiling down a player’s value to a single number requires a lot of assumptions. Many of the advanced metrics do, which is why contextual analysis is always required. “This player has a PER of 20, so he’s a better player than this other guy with a PER of 14” is a nonsensical statement.

Do you know what PER is or how it’s calculated?

Comparing two guys’ PER’s who play the same position is more than fair.

 

[Alsacs]

I don’t care about PER because I’ve never cared about PER. Boiling down a player’s value to a single number requires a lot of assumptions. Many of the advanced metrics do, which is why contextual analysis is always required. “This player has a PER of 20, so he’s a better player than this other guy with a PER of 14” is a nonsensical statement.

What the hell does Joe do good?
Give things.
He hasn’t shot well.
He doesn’t defend well.
He doesn’t push transition well.
He is a catch and shoot SG playing PG because our HC has badly treated the PG position.
We have an actual PG on the bench who needs to develop. Who has had his confidence killed by his own coach and you think Joe is better.

 

[OrangeDW]

Also, he is correct that PER doesn’t tell the whole story. For example, it doesn’t account for insane momentum killing 27 foot chucks. In PER, that is simply a missed shot.

And while it includes defensive stats, it doesn’t include things like defensive positioning or getting loose balls or tipped passes that don’t lead to steals(but still disrupt offenses).

If PER included defense beyond steals and blocks, and decision making, Kadary would be even further ahead.

 

[Brooky03]

What the hell does Joe do good?
Give things.
He hasn’t shot well.
He doesn’t defend well.
He doesn’t push transition well.
He is a catch and shoot SG playing PG because our HC has badly treated the PG position.
We have an actual PG on the bench who needs to develop. Who has had his confidence killed by his own coach and you think Joe is better.

He has shown the ability to shoot well and can break games open, Kadary doesn’t look like he’s there yet. Will he get there? We all hope so. 20 mpg should be plenty to develop to that end.

He doesn’t defend well. He’s not Brandon Reese, though. Kadary is better. We’re not talking about Michael Jordan’s defense compared to James Harden’s. It’s a hyperbolic argument that Kadary is soooo much better on defense that he should get the keys and 30 mpg.

Joe sets up the offense as well as Kadary does. Just going by the eye test, the offense hasn’t looked any more fluid with Kadary out there than with Joe. Kadary can get in the lane but teams don’t have to respect his shot so our spacing is worse. Joe can’t consistently get in the lane but teams have to respect his shot so our spacing is better.

Joe at 25 and Kadary at 20 is fine with me, as I’ve stated before. Does Joe have to get 30? No. Should he start? Yes.

 

[Brooky03]

Do you know what PER is or how it’s calculated?

Comparing two guys’ PER’s who play the same position is more than fair.

Yes. It’s a nice metric to put players in tiers and analyze from there. It’s not a good metric for ranking players, in the same way that Kenpoms numbers aren’t good for ranking teams. With Kadary, we are talking about a minuscule sample size, to boot.

 

[Scooch]

Start Kadary, tell him he has the PG reigns at least until the second TV timeout, barring foul trouble.


Kadary got 18 minutes and did nothing with them against Pitt, on either side of the ball. Joe also did nothing in 22 minutes. Giving Kadary the start and tons of playing time is a fun thing to say, it’s also just change for the sake of change.

Griffin can’t dribble. I don’t want him at Guard. Maybe literally just a few minutes, but not significantly.

I’m in favor of more run for Woody and Bras. I’d like to see it happen with Griffin on the bench instead of the 2.

Center is a problem and Marek isn’t the answer. We all agree there. But until Sid comes back (is he ever going to actually come back?), Marek does more than any of the other guys at the 5.

You asked for solutions and I provided a bunch.

You seem to be saying that the *only* thing that can be done is play Griffin a little less. I find that less than compelling.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yes. It’s a nice metric to put players in tiers and analyze from there. It’s not a good metric for ranking players, in the same way that Kenpoms numbers aren’t good for ranking teams. With Kadary, we are talking about a minuscule sample size, to boot.

So you are under the impression that they are basically equal on offense, but Kadary is better on defense(even if you’re trying to claim the difference isn’t that big)

So why should Joe start and play more?

 

[orange79]

The entire board.

 

[Brooky03]

Niagara, Rider, Rutgers, Buffalo.

Thats where Kadary’s stats come from. Were Joe’s good games against pretty much equally crappy teams? Yes. The difference is Joe has a body of work from last season.

Was Joe a world beater last year? No. Was he better in many categories than he’s been this year? Yeah. Are the numbers last year, which includes a full season of conference games in the ACC, more indicative of Joe’s ability than 10 games this season? Most likely. Are Kadary’s numbers against bad programs likely to continue or improve in ACC play? Probably not.

In PER terms, since you guys like that, Joe is not an 11. Kadary is also not an 18.

 

[Brooky03]

So you are under the impression that they are basically equal on offense, but Kadary is better on defense(even if you’re trying to claim the difference isn’t that big)

So why should Joe start and play more?

Experience matters. And I think Joe has more ability to break a game open than Kadary.

 

[Brooky03]

You asked for solutions and I provided a bunch.

You seem to be saying that the *only* thing that can be done is play Griffin a little less. I find that less than compelling.

This team is what it is. I don’t think there’s anything in terms of playing time, other than getting Sid back that will make a difference in wins and losses.

I did ask for solutions and appreciated yours. I’m just skeptical Kadary is a magic bullet on a team full of very little talent. If he can’t affect games positively in 20 minutes, will 30 minutes change that?

 

[OrangeDW]

Experience matters. And I think Joe has more ability to break a game open than Kadary.

In which ways has Joe’s experience shown to matter?

He can break a game open...in both directions. Sounds like a guy you bring off the bench to me.

 

[Brooky03]

In which ways has Joe’s experience shown to matter?

He can break a game open...in both directions. Sounds like a guy you bring off the bench to me.

What will Kadary do for us in 30 minutes that’s an improvement over what he’s done in 20?

Teams haven’t been getting out to big early leads against us based on Joe’s defense or shooting. So why can’t Joe start?

 

[Scooch]

This team is what it is. I don’t think there’s anything in terms of playing time, other than getting Sid back that will make a difference in wins and losses.

I did ask for solutions and appreciated yours. I’m just skeptical Kadary is a magic bullet on a team full of very little talent. If he can’t affect games positively in 20 minutes, will 30 minutes change that?

I believe every player’s mental makeup is different, and they react to different styles of coaching and motivation. I hate to play pop psychologist, but it looks to me that Kadary is playing with some degree of hesitation, because he has JB ready to give him a very quick hook.

So I agree in theory that simply giving him a few more minutes won’t, in and of itself, make him better. But, I do believe that giving him latitude to play through mistakes could pay dividends. Hence my suggestion to give him a substantial chunk of minutes free from the JB hook.

Joe gets that benefit because JB trusts him after last season. But of course, Joe got uninterrupted minutes to build that trust. And it’s not like he didn’t make many mistakes in that time last year.

And this is just one thing I suggested. Doing nothing but wait for Shaquille Sidibe to mayyybe come back seems like terrible coaching IMHO.