The numbers of our seasons broken down since 2014

[Alsacs]

“We haven’t been good.” We know
“We’re not the program we once were.” We know
“Here’s evidence of how not good we are.” Why? We all agreed with you.

Don’t click on the thread then. You don’t need to be here if you don’t want to read it.

 

[Brooky03]

Don’t click on the thread then. You don’t need to be here if you don’t want to read it.

It’s not just this thread. It’s the first 4 pages of the forum.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I have concluded that we used to be really good at basketball, and right now we're mediocre at basketball.

 

[Alsacs]

It’s just just this thread. It’s the first 4 pages of the forum.

People are frustrated with the status quo.
The status quo that hasn’t changed for a while.
We do the same things year after year and don’t address the weaknesses.
The HC is a legend but the complaints aren’t made up.
If things were good I would be positive. I don’t pretend to be optimistic just to be optimistic.

The facts are the facts. People can support the team, and program and call a spade a spade.

If their was reason to be optimistic in the future the frustration would be dissipated . It’s not though.
What centers do we have coming in next year?
What guards do we have coming in next year?

The answer is none and none. This roster has flaws and they aren’t being addressed. That is on the HC.

The HC blames defense yesterday and doesn’t play his best defensive guard. Don’t complain about the defense then.

The tenure of the board is a buildup of the status quo not changing.

 

[Cusefan0307]

You probably should go back two years to the start of the downfall.

2012-13 we had a talented team that played no one until late February. We finished the season losing 4 out of 5. Then came the turning point IMO of the program. JB went to the grind it out style which resulted in a great BET and NCAA run. That style of play and recruiting players to fit it was the start of the end.

2013-14 was the only good regular season in the last NINE years. The results to start the year were great but the style was hard to watch. Grinding out all those close games took its toll and we finished the season 2-6.

We have opened things up a bit the last two years but the talent is severely lacking.

I really think JB is here three more years. He will stay through Buddy and then one more. So we are looking at 12 years of basketball which is totally different from Big East JB. I hope he doesn't ruin his legacy. I also hope that the fans do not turn on him. It would be sad to only see 15k and angry fans every game.

I am amazed that people think things would be better if Hop stayed. He was there through 2016-17. Even if you want to blame JB for not pursuing kids that Hop wanted, we have seen what Hop can do coaching those kids.

We were lucky to have Big East JB and didn't deserve such success. We deserve better than ACC JB and shouldn't be held hostage for an entire decade.

Again exaggeration doesn’t help these arguments. 2013 was not a good year
and we played nobody until the end? Clown post. We were a 4 seed and 26-9 entering the tournament. I swear some people think people forget facts here.

We beat number one Louisville and top 25 Cincinnati in back to back games that year in January. We were the 8th ranked KP team that year. The BE was ten times better than the ACC is this year.

 

[FrancoPizza]

We were lucky to have Big East JB and didn't deserve such success.

Why didn’t we deserve it? The table was set for success in the 80s-90s.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Again exaggeration doesn’t help these arguments. 2013 was not a good year
and we played nobody until the end? Clown post. We were a 4 seed and 26-9 entering the tournament. I swear some people think people forget facts here.

We beat number one Louisville and top 25 Cincinnati in back to back games that year in January. We were the 8th ranked KP team that year. The BE was ten times better than the ACC is this year.

A good counter would be to give examples. The post season that year was GREAT. The regular season ended up being a disappointment. Look at the schedule before posting. Thanks.

 

[sufandu]

It’s just just this thread. It’s the first 4 pages of the forum.

I suppose there's no reason foe the forum, then. What else do we talk about?

 

[Brooky03]

People are frustrated with the status quo.
The status quo that hasn’t changed for a while.
We do the same things year after year and don’t address the weaknesses.
The HC is a legend but the complaints aren’t made up.
If things were good I would be positive. I don’t pretend to be optimistic just to be optimistic.

The facts are the facts. People can support the team, and program and call a spade a spade.

If their was reason to be optimistic in the future the frustration would be dissipated . It’s not though.
What centers do we have coming in next year?
What guards do we have coming in next year?

The answer is none and none. This roster has flaws and they aren’t being addressed. That is on the HC.

The HC blames defense yesterday and doesn’t play his best defensive guard. Don’t complain about the defense then.

The tenure of the board is a buildup of the status quo not changing.

Can’t wait for a coach to come in here and turn in .400 seasons. That’ll be a fun chapter.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

How much of our slide is losing Fine and Murphy? We never replaced either. We still had a stacked team in 2012 without those two coaches. Then the talent started going downhill and JB did not have his 2nd in command to help coach.

 

[Cusefan0307]

A good counter would be to give examples. The post season that year was GREAT. The regular season ended up being a disappointment. Look at the schedule before posting. Thanks.

I did look at the schedule. We were top 25 all season. We were 23-8. We beat the number one team on their home court and the next game we beat top 25 Cincinnati. We beat top 25 Notre Dame. We won in Arkansas. I would sign up for that season every year. You’re exaggerating and that sht gets annoying so I call it out.

 

[syrBossHogg]

How much of our slide is losing Fine and Murphy? We never replaced either. We still had a stacked team in 2012 without those two coaches. Then the talent started going downhill and JB did not have his 2nd in command to help coach.

We still brought in talent after those two were gone, then JB started traveling less for recruiting and we got hit with the sanctions.

 

[Cuse1055]

Isn’t this kind of similar to how Coach P’s tenure came to an end in football? Our football record continued to get worse for a few years and we had become mediocre compared to the success we had in prior years (Fiesta Bowls, Orange Bowl, etc.). Granted, Gross came in and wanted to make his own hire and Coach P did not have the overall longevity and/or track record as Boeheim, but the results the past handful of years are pretty similar.

 

[sufandu]

Can’t wait for a coach to come in here and turn in .400 seasons. That’ll be a fun chapter.

That is a possibility. If we continue to slide, it will get harder to attract the best candidates to replace JB and for his replacement to maintain or improve upon the success we've had. Here's hoping JB has one more rebound in him.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

A good counter would be to give examples. The post season that year was GREAT. The regular season ended up being a disappointment. Look at the schedule before posting. Thanks.

Just to further my point in our first 19 games we went 18-1. That is a great start. Then we finished 5-7 in our last 12, which is a disappointment no?

Our first 19 games we played 5 teams that made the NCAAT, which isn't overall challenging correct? We went 4-1 in those games which is good.

Our last 12 games we went 1-6 vs NCAAT teams, which is a big disappointment no? And we went 4-1 against non NCAAT teams, which doesn't help correct?

We played our way into a 4 seed because of the BET. That made up for what was a disappointing regular season. Overall it was a good season, my point was toward the regular season.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Isn’t this kind of similar to how Coach P’s tenure came to an end in football? Our football record continued to get worse for a few years and we had become mediocre compared to the success we had in prior years (Fiesta Bowls, Orange Bowl, etc.). Granted, Gross came in and wanted to make his own hire and Coach P did not have the overall longevity and/or track record as Boeheim, but the results the past handful of years are pretty similar.

I think another factor was the AD stopped giving P the financial support he needed to compete with our peer schools

 

[Cusefan0307]

Just to further my point in our first 19 games we went 18-1. That is a great start. Then we finished 5-7 in our last 12, which is a disappointment no?

Our first 19 games we played 5 teams that made the NCAAT, which isn't overall challenging correct? We went 4-1 in those games which is good.

Our last 12 games we went 1-6 vs NCAAT teams, which is a big disappointment no? And we went 4-1 against non NCAAT teams, which doesn't help correct?

We played our way into a 4 seed because of the BET. That made up for what was a disappointing regular season. Overall it was a good season, my point was toward the regular season.

What are your expectations then? You’re awfully focused on about a 2 week stretch in the schedule which in your opinion ruined the rest of the season and you believe it was the start of our slide. I think it’s moronic and will double down every time.

And JB not deserving the BE is just a weird take. You seem like you are poo pooing any past success we had.

 

[MikeSU02]

The Big East from 2005-2013 was a stronger league than this ACC.
This ACC is more top heavy now but the BE from 2005-2013 was top heavy, middle heavy. The bottoms were about the same though.

just caught the replies to this. Yes, the BE was v good. My point was that towards the end of our time in the big East, we knew that shifting into an acc with Duke, UNC, Ville, etc etc was going to be harder. Top flight recruits, blue bloods, etc.

Day in and day out, our competition is harder now (even tho the acc is down this year).

Generally speaking, we were going into a conference that should be considered the best basketball conference each year (even if it isn’t always).

 

[HRE Otto IV]

What are your expectations then? You’re awfully focused on about a 2 week stretch in the schedule which in your opinion ruined the rest of the season and you believe it was the start of our slide. I think it’s moronic and will double down every time.

And JB not deserving the BE is just a weird take. You seem like you are poo pooing any past success we had.

Your 2nd point is not in English so not sure what you are trying to say.

Going into the BET do you think losing 7 out of our last 12 games (how is 12 games 2 weeks, math?) and being an 11-7 BET 5 seed was a good season given our talent? I thought it was disappointing. If you did not we can agree to disagree. We sure as hell made the season a great one due to the BET run and the Final Four. There is no debating that.

The start of the slide IMO was the style of play, not results based. JB went away from traditional SU BBall starting that season. We used to out score and out athlete our opponents. We were always an O team. That season we became a defensive team. He put more emphasis on slowing things down on O and recruiting combo guards and lanky forwards. IMO that shift while effective short term has been the wrong direction long term. We do not have the athletes we used to have nor do we have the ballers we used to have.

 

[Alsacs]

Can’t wait for a coach to come in here and turn in .400 seasons. That’ll be a fun chapter.

What is your point?
How about countering the points being made instead of just playing What if.

 

[sufandu]

Again exaggeration doesn’t help these arguments. 2013 was not a good year
and we played nobody until the end? Clown post. We were a 4 seed and 26-9 entering the tournament. I swear some people think people forget facts here.

We beat number one Louisville and top 25 Cincinnati in back to back games that year in January. We were the 8th ranked KP team that year. The BE was ten times better than the ACC is this year.

He didn't say 2013 wasn't a good year. He said you can go back and trace the beginning of the decline to it. It wasn't obvious at the time, but, looking back, you could see some cracks beginning to form. We had a lot of good pieces but lacked that scorer that could break down guys in the halfcourt and get his own shot when necessary the way Waiters could the year before. When the top of the zone turned teams over and we got into transition, we were great. When teams made us score in the halfcourt, we had trouble. That hurt us in conference play that year.

The next year the 25-0 start made many ignore our flaws, but the poor finish to the regular season and poor showings in the tournaments showed where we were headed, especially once Ennis and Grant, guys we thought would develop into college stars, left early.

Since then, we have either done a poor job of grabbing elite young guys that could be studs immediately, guys with potential have left early before they could really help us, or we haven't developed other guys.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

You probably should go back two years to the start of the downfall.

2012-13 we had a talented team that played no one until late February. We finished the season losing 4 out of 5. Then came the turning point IMO of the program. JB went to the grind it out style which resulted in a great BET and NCAA run. That style of play and recruiting players to fit it was the start of the end.

2013-14 was the only good regular season in the last NINE years. The results to start the year were great but the style was hard to watch. Grinding out all those close games took its toll and we finished the season 2-6.

We have opened things up a bit the last two years but the talent is severely lacking.

I really think JB is here three more years. He will stay through Buddy and then one more. So we are looking at 12 years of basketball which is totally different from Big East JB. I hope he doesn't ruin his legacy. I also hope that the fans do not turn on him. It would be sad to only see 15k and angry fans every game.

I am amazed that people think things would be better if Hop stayed. He was there through 2016-17. Even if you want to blame JB for not pursuing kids that Hop wanted, we have seen what Hop can do coaching those kids.

We were lucky to have Big East JB and didn't deserve such success. We deserve better than ACC JB and shouldn't be held hostage for an entire decade.

Good post, but I vehemently disagree with the Hop comment. We've been worse without him than with him. One 9 game stretch doesn't tell the whole story. He got hosed. Period.

 

[UpstateSM]

Higher than I would have guessed

 

[sufandu]

just caught the replies to this. Yes, the BE was v good. My point was that towards the end of our time in the big East, we knew that shifting into an acc with Duke, UNC, Ville, etc etc was going to be harder. Top flight recruits, blue bloods, etc.

Day in and day out, our competition is harder now (even tho the acc is down this year).

Generally speaking, we were going into a conference that should be considered the best basketball conference each year (even if it isn’t always).

But it hasn't been. Look at the number of teams in the ACC that are in the rankings or making the tournament (and their seeds) compared to the number the Big East had when we were there. It has been no harder since we joined the ACC.

 

[Brooky03]

What is your point?
How about countering the points being made instead of just playing What if.

I see complaints. I see few solutions. Complaints, alone, don’t merit counter-points. What are the solutions?