The official starting lineup thread

[Bayside44]

Let me help you. R-O-B-E-R-S-O-N.

JB usually lets seniors go - you don't think it's Frankie H?

 

[IthacaMatt]

The crazy thing about this team is not only do I not know what the starting lineup will be but I'm not sure what the most used lineup will be minutes wise. I'm going with:


I generally agree with this. I think we start:

Battle
Gillon
White
Lydon
Coleman

We have Howard as the 3rd guard for that rotation with White as the 4th based on foul trouble or injuries. We have Robey and Chukwu off the bench if we need more muscle inside. I think Coleman plays the least of all the bigs. I think Chukwu plays more and Lydon even plays a few minutes with White and Robey at the forwards. That is my favorite lineup personally if Lydon has put on the weight. Lydon, Robey and White up front with Gillon and Battle in the backcourt.

That starting lineup is a little light defensively. I think you either need to replace Coleman with Chukwu, or you'd have to swap out Roberson for one of the other forwards. You'll see that lineup, for sure, but I don't think that lineup starts.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Donna wrote a beautiful article on Roberson: The Tyler Roberson you don't know: Meet Syracuse basketball's shy power forward

She's my favorite sports writer by miles.

Personality wise, that's why I think it's a risk to lose him as a player if he doesn't start, especially as a returning senior who got his balls busted by JB last year.

Also, in terms of team dynamics and the guys who have been here, that's why I see Lydon as a starter, too, and why Coleman will start at least at the beginning of the season.

 

[IthacaMatt]

After some more thought, the lineup that most excites me is this one. In terms of 4 offensive players coupled with a O/D rebounding fiend, makes the most sense to finish the game.
Pg - Gillon
Sg - Battle
Sf - White
Pf - Roberson
C - Lydon

I agree with this. This is our most exciting lineup. I could see this lineup finishing up certain games.

 

[IthacaMatt]

JB usually lets seniors go - you don't think it's Frankie H?

By default, it's probably going to be Thompson, and maybe Battle a bit if he doesn't fit into the team concept and looks for too much of his own shot. I think Frank is going to have a role to play, but he's not going to see enough time to warrant a butt chewing on a regular basis. JB has a history of being tough on big men, more so than young guards unless they are ball hogs.

 

[orangehomer]

guys, lydon is the best player on the team. he is going to start. after that who cares, lydon, and maybe battle are the only special talents on this roster.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

guys, lydon is the best player on the team. he is going to start. after that who cares, lydon, and maybe battle are the only special talents on this roster.

I said earlier in the thread that it makes a lot of sense for Lydon to start since he will end up playing three positions. However, as far as your comment about Lydon and Battle being the only special talents, one thing about this team, if it is going to be as good as we hope, a few other guys will have to bring their special talents to the game. Roberson-his rebounding on both ends, White-his outside shooting, Gillon-leading the team with his uptempo ability on offense, Chukwu-his defensive presence in the middle of the 2-3 zone. We get those four guys playing well, then this team will do very well.

 

[Dave85]

Interesting to see Mike having Howard as PG and Gillon as SG:

Andrew White, Taurean Thompson give Jim Boeheim even more lineup options (video)

 

[tee1222]

Interesting to see Mike having Howard as PG and Gillon as SG:

Andrew White, Taurean Thompson give Jim Boeheim even more lineup options (video)

Awesome how he mentions the versatility at the end of the clip. We scary and we know it.

 

[ElwoodJBlues]

Starting:
PG - Gillon
SG - White
SF - Lydon
PF - Roberson
C - Coleman

On the court the most:
PG - Howard
SG - Battle
SF - White
PF - Roberson
C - Lydon

Most Offense:
PG - Gillon
SG - Battle
SF - White
PF - Lydon
C - Coleman

Most Defense:
PG - Howard
SG - White
SF - Lydon
PF - Roberson
C - Chukwu

 

[jordoo]

Here are my thoughts:

The starting lineup doesn't matter at Syracuse, it only matters to certain players. I'm sure all the players would like to start but it only bothers a few if they don't. We all know that minutes matter.

It's my view that Roberson is better suited to be a starter.(Absolutely not, he is not better suited to be a starter than Lydon when he is only better than Lydon at rebounding and has been very limited on offense. I could see saying Lydon is better suited to come off the bench but then again Lydon is a better player.) He's a very mechanical/ robotic player and I'm afraid if his batteries aren't on to start the game, he might struggle. As others have mentioned, it might not be a great look to bring in fifth year transfers and then bring them in off the bench. Gillon's very passionate when he talks about wanting to start and considering himself a starter. Therefore, think both of them start.

I stand by my point that Lydon's versatility makes him a better bench candidate. (He's also a better starting candidate as he is a much more well rounded player) If he starts at the 4, Roberson would be on the bench. When Roberson is called upon, he only has one possible position: the 4. Lydon could enter at 3 positions and that gives JB a lot of options. Lydon could start at the 3 but then White would start at the 2 and that should go to Battle, who is not our best point guard option. (This can all also be accomplished starting Lydon and then sliding him to other positions when someone else comes in. Having him come off the bench doesn't make him or the squad more versatile, it just fits your point of view to state it that way.)

The other possibility is maybe JB does go with a starting backcourt of Battle and White and changes things up at the first timeout. But again, that means Gillon doesn't start and that's a bad look.

I understand everyone's arguments I just don't agree with them. I get the perspective but all those arguments can be turned the other way (see above in red). We can agree to disagree though and I doubt very much that the starting lineup is set right now. Heck, the first game starting line up may change after a few games who knows. My biggest thing is that I just cannot see Lydon not starting because he is that good and we want him to have that star player mentality this year.

 

[jordoo]

Ultimately, I think we might have to get used to minutes being a bit more fluid this season than in most others. Having quality depth means many guys playing fewer minutes than they otherwise might in years where we only go 7 or 8 deep.

And if our players gel, then we're going to have a LOT of firepower. Which means that we could be playing from ahead in a lot of games instead of even or having to claw our way back in down the stretch.

Both of those factors mean that we could have different personnel out there, as we go into stall ball. A lot will depend on what happens any given game, IMO, in terms of minutes distribution.

I agree with this. Even an 8 man rotation where that 8th guy gets legitimate minutes (not the 7.5 rotation) means that you aren't going to see more than 2 players regularly playing 30+ minutes IMO. Probably a hand full of guys in the mid to high 20's and then a couple over 30.

 

[jordoo]

You need to look at this from a team perspective. We can't have the subs being Frank, TR, and PC because that is zero offense. You need some offense on the bench or JB won't be subbing freely at all.

So even before taking into account JB and his seniors, or the mentality of players, you don't start Lydon over TR and have a bench of FH, TR, and PC.

Lydon still may start, but in my mind not at the expense of TR.

I am looking at it from a team perspective. I want to promote and aggressive start mentality in what I see as our best most talented player. The subs don't always have to bring offense as long as they bring energy and a different look it can change things plus the argument that we should start less offense so we have offense to bring in implies what, that you want to fall behind early in games?

 

[tee1222]

I understand everyone's arguments I just don't agree with them. I get the perspective but all those arguments can be turned the other way (see above in red). We can agree to disagree though and I doubt very much that the starting lineup is set right now. Heck, the first game starting line up may change after a few games who knows. My biggest thing is that I just cannot see Lydon not starting because he is that good and we want him to have that star player mentality this year.

Don't you worry bout nothin. Nothin! You're the man, as always, jordoooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

[iommi]

I understand everyone's arguments I just don't agree with them. I get the perspective but all those arguments can be turned the other way (see above in red). We can agree to disagree though and I doubt very much that the starting lineup is set right now. Heck, the first game starting line up may change after a few games who knows. My biggest thing is that I just cannot see Lydon not starting because he is that good and we want him to have that star player mentality this year.

And I get your points too. Ultimately the starting lineup doesn't matter in the big picture, so that's why I think JB might go my way, to please those grad transfers and sensitive types.

 

[jordoo]

And I get your points too. Ultimately the starting lineup doesn't matter in the big picture, so that's why I think JB might go my way, to please those grad transfers and sensitive types.

Its certainly a possibility and I doubt its decided yet. I just cannot get my brain to process it. :noidea:

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I am looking at it from a team perspective. I want to promote and aggressive start mentality in what I see as our best most talented player. The subs don't always have to bring offense as long as they bring energy and a different look it can change things plus the argument that we should start less offense so we have offense to bring in implies what, that you want to fall behind early in games?

When you asked people to view the decision as just Lydon v TRob you were not looking at the entire team. TRob's outstanding rebounding skills will work well with lineups that contain good offensive personnel and probably will not mesh as well with other defensive players.

No, I do not want to fall behind in games. I want JB to be able to substitute players regularly. Playing the 5 best offensive players will make that harder to do.

 

[jordoo]

When you asked people to view the decision as just Lydon v TRob you were not looking at the entire team. TRob's outstanding rebounding skills will work well with lineups that contain good offensive personnel and probably will not mesh as well with other defensive players.

No, I do not want to fall behind in games. I want JB to be able to substitute players regularly. Playing the 5 best offensive players will make that harder to do.

I did say that. I was trying to point out that he's the guy you are starting over Lydon and with a center in there as well you are limiting the offense to start the game so from a team perspective I think its better to start Lydon. I also think its better for Lydon's mind set to take the next step to be a star player. Which would also be good for the team.

JB will be able to substitute regularly no matter who is starting because he's going to have at least 8 guys he can count on and 3 or 4 who can play multiple spots.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I did say that. I was trying to point out that he's the guy you are starting over Lydon and with a center in there as well you are limiting the offense to start the game so from a team perspective I think its better to start Lydon. I also think its better for Lydon's mind set to take the next step to be a star player. Which would also be good for the team.

JB will be able to substitute regularly no matter who is starting because he's going to have at least 8 guys he can count on and 3 or 4 who can play multiple spots.

DC2 should be a decent offensive option, that's why he is better suited to be out there with TRob (TRob and PC together are too offensively challenged).

Having good players that can play multiple spots is a recipe for not substituting regularly. It would be more enticing to have the good player play a different position.

JB does not have 8 guys he can count on. FH was a disaster last year and JB has 2 new transfer players he hasn't worked with and no game experience out of PC. JB may get trust in these guys later if he develops it.

Despite what you and many think, the danger of a short bench is very real.

 

[jordoo]

DC2 should be a decent offensive option, that's why he is better suited to be out there with TRob (TRob and PC together are too offensively challenged).

Having good players that can play multiple spots is a recipe for not substituting regularly. It would be more enticing to have the good player play a different position.

JB does not have 8 guys he can count on. FH was a disaster last year and JB has 2 new transfer players he hasn't worked with and no game experience out of PC. JB may get trust in these guys later if he develops it.

Despite what you and many think, the danger of a short bench is very real.

If you believe that then why would you want our best player coming off the bench?

You don't think JB can count on proven grad transfers to play roles and contribute? Really? Nor Howard? Did you read the articles by Donna and what JB has said about the team, depth and versatility?

 

[Cusefan0307]

I HATE the idea of bringing lydon off the bench. You are already building in 6-8 minutes each game where he's guaranteed to sit, or you're going to pull someone after 2 minutes? I know we did that with Fab and Roc, but they were freshman. We won't have a freshman in front of Lydon to do that with. I thought we wanted him to be more aggressive anyway. How does bringing him off the bench teach him anything but to defer some more? That's the last thing I want. Yes, I know I'm repeating myself and I am going to until the first game when he starts.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

If you believe that then why would you want our best player coming off the bench?

You don't think JB can count on proven grad transfers to play roles and contribute? Really? Nor Howard? Did you read the articles by Donna and what JB has said about the team, depth and versatility?

I want a good offensive player like Lydon on the bench to start the game so it is easier to substitute.

Just because you have depth, doesn't mean you use it. I hope JB is able to use it.

And if not starting Lydon helps JB use more people I am all for it. You seem to have the problem with it.

 

[jordoo]

I want a good offensive player like Lydon on the bench to start the game so it is easier to substitute.

Just because you have depth, doesn't mean you use it. I hope JB is able to use it.

And if not starting Lydon helps JB use more people I am all for it. You seem to have the problem with it.

You said JB doesn't have 8 guys he can count on. I pointed you to an article where he says he has 9 maybe 10 (Moyer, health). I'm not suggesting he will play a regular 9 or 10 man rotation as I think it will be 8 regularly.

I do have a problem with starting Lydon on the bench as I think its detrimental to the team and Lydon reaching their max potential for this season. That's what most of my posts in this thread are about.

 

[Dave85]

I HATE the idea of bringing lydon off the bench. You are already building in 6-8 minutes each game where he's guaranteed to sit, or you're going to pull someone after 2 minutes? I know we did that with Fab and Roc, but they were freshman. We won't have a freshman in front of Lydon to do that with. I thought we wanted him to be more aggressive anyway. How does bringing him off the bench teach him anything but to defer some more? That's the last thing I want. Yes, I know I'm repeating myself and I am going to until the first game when he starts.

You are framing your question so any answer that is not in line with your expectation sounds insane. A different framing would include does starting even matter as well as other factors. JB has said his starters are the players who get the most PT on several occasions.

The way you are framing this question is like you want to have a debate about who are the best players. As I've said previously starting Roberson over Lydon may happen not because Roberson is a better than Lydon. But maybe starting is more significant to Roberson than it is for Lydon. Keeping players happy is important. Players are not robots. We need to try to keep players happy where is makes sense or doesn't cause a negative side effect. I don't think Lydon cares if he starts. Lydon coming in off the bench will most likely not make any difference with his NBA prospects. You could argue coming in fresh will allow him to do better.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

You said JB doesn't have 8 guys he can count on. I pointed you to an article where he says he has 9 maybe 10 (Moyer, health). I'm not suggesting he will play a regular 9 or 10 man rotation as I think it will be 8 regularly.

I do have a problem with starting Lydon on the bench as I think its detrimental to the team and Lydon reaching their max potential for this season. That's what most of my posts in this thread are about.

I understand you do not want Lydon on the bench to start games.

You inquired almost in disbelief how anyone could think differently. I have tried to explain. I would rather see JB substitute liberally and use this depth than if Lydon starts or not.