The official starting lineup thread

[Fly Rodder]

I don't think it matters who starts as much as who gets the most playing time.

This. As far as who starts, it has historically been the seniors and occasionally a prized recruit frosh. I don't think it is an incredible leap of logic that Roberson, a senior who has given four years to the program and a returning starter, starts over a sophomore.

I could be wrong, I certainly see the logic in starting Lydon over Roberson, and I'm not incredulous at the idea, but I'm just going on how Boeheim has typically operated with his roles. Starts are kinda like an honorarium with him.

 

[orangenirvana]

I don't think it matters who starts as much as who gets the most playing time.

Who do you think will play the 2 spot this year besides Battle?

Boeheim always uses a three-man guard rotation. This year it will be Gillon, Battle, and Howard. When Battle is on the bench, Gillon can play off with Howard the main handler.

 

[Dave85]

Gillon
Battle
White
Lydon
Coleman

White is too slow for the 2. Roberson is the odd man out but will still be improved and play as many (or more) mins as last year.

White did have 1.1 steals per game last year.

 

[Dave85]

Boeheim always uses a three-man guard rotation. This year it will be Gillon, Battle, and Howard. When Battle is on the bench, Gillon can play off with Howard the main handler.

I get that. I was just thinking who would be playing the 2 spot. Gillon seems to me to be a pure PG. I'm not sure we will see Gillon play the 2 spot. I'm not sure Battle will play PG as much as SG. If you want to get Lydon and Roberson the most amount of playing time then I'm thinking we may see Battle and White play SG but with Battle getting the most minutes at SG. People may be right in saying White playing SG is just not going to happen. We still need to see what White is capable of doing. I don't think White will play the 4 spot. So if White only plays the 3 spot it will have implications on Lydon and Roberson's PT.

 

[jordoo]

I don't think it matters who starts as much as who gets the most playing time.

Who do you think will play the 2 spot this year besides Battle?

It matters when your supposed best player and lottery pick deferred last year. Its a mentality thing for Lydon taking the next step mentality wise to be a star player who is aggressive. Dion for instance has always had that mentality and had to be reigned in a bit. Bringing him off the bench simply reinforces him playing the same role as last year which is not what we want. We want him taking the next step.

I think Gillon can pay the 2G when Howard is in and I think White will get some time there situation-ally. I am also not going to discard the possibility that somehow (even if it doesn't make sense to me) White defends better out top than on the wing and Battle defends better on the wing. It wouldn't change their roles offensively but I suppose that could be an unlikely possibility defensively. Battle is 6-6, 6-7 like White but White has a lot more muscle.

 

[UelSU]

Gillon
White
Lydon
Roberson
Coleman

 

[Jack Hall]

This. As far as who starts, it has historically been the seniors and occasionally a prized recruit frosh. I don't think it is an incredible leap of logic that Roberson, a senior who has given four years to the program and a returning starter, starts over a sophomore.

I could be wrong, I certainly see the logic in starting Lydon over Roberson, and I'm not incredulous at the idea, but I'm just going on how Boeheim has typically operated with his roles. Starts are kinda like an honorarium with him.

Im with you, if it were up to me Lydon would start. But its not up to me and JB knows what hes doing.

Was Lydon a better player than Robey last year? Most would say yes. But it was Robey who started. Will it change this year? We shall see

 

[Dave85]

So the kids that you are worried about going all out if they are not pampered get rewarded. We don't have time for it this year, we are trying to win the NC.

Well, in my mind, to win a NC then Lydon and Roberson have to get lots if not the most amount of playing time. Even if that means Lydon continues to play center. Say Coleman-Chukwu-Thompson play all the 5-spot minutes. Then White, Lydon, Roberson will split the 3-4 minutes with White only playing the 3-spot. To me if you accept the Lydon-Roberson most minutes premise, and you want to give White big minutes, then White has to take time away from Battle at the 2 spot.

If Battle can play PG, and White can play SG, then I think we see lineups like this:

Battle, White, Lydon, Roberson, Chukwu
Battle, White, Lydon, Roberson, Thompson
Battle, White, Lydon, Roberson, Coleman

That's some tall players. But as orangenirvana pointed out, having big guys up top may look impressive but it may not translate into very good 3-point defense because of the speed required. I am really interested in seeing how well Gillon defends the 3-point shot up top and if it invalidates our current conventional wisdom of having tall PGs and tall SGs is better on defense.

 

[Jack Hall]

It matters when your supposed best player and lottery pick deferred last year. Its a mentality thing for Lydon taking the next step mentality wise to be a star player who is aggressive. Dion for instance has always had that mentality and had to be reigned in a bit. Bringing him off the bench simply reinforces him playing the same role as last year which is not what we want. We want him taking the next step.

I think Gillon can pay the 2G when Howard is in and I think White will get some time there situation-ally. I am also not going to discard the possibility that somehow (even if it doesn't make sense to me) White defends better out top than on the wing and Battle defends better on the wing. It wouldn't change their roles offensively but I suppose that could be an unlikely possibility defensively. Battle is 6-6, 6-7 like White but White has a lot more muscle.

Lydon had to deal with G, Mal, Cooney last year. A couple 5th yr seniors who were going to have the ball in their hands and take a ton of shots. Mal was also going to take a ton of shots. No big shocker the freshman had a "defer" attitude. He was being a good teammate and he helped lead us to a FF in the end. This year he knows his role will be different as i would think he is well aware that he is SUs top draft prospect. I expect this year to be different, starter or not

 

[jordoo]

Lydon had to deal with G, Mal, Cooney last year. A couple 5th yr seniors who were going to have the ball in their hands and take a ton of shots. Mal was also going to take a ton of shots. No big shocker the freshman had a "defer" attitude. He was being a good teammate and he helped lead us to a FF in the end. This year he knows his role will be different as i would think he is well aware that he is SUs top draft prospect. I expect this year to be dufferent starter or not

But bringing him off the bench does not reinforce that at all. I agree it makes sense he deferred last year but the coaches were trying to get him to shoot more last season as well when he had good shots. He was a great team player and a freshman. We were starting our 3 highest scorers so Roberson could start over Lydon plus Lydon was our backup 5 last season. We shall see and its a 1st world problem which is nice to have. I just think people forget that Roberson has only ever been a starter out of necessity. He is an energy/rebounding guy who is a very valuable part of the team but usually those guys are bench players on the better squads.

I understand that people aren't going to agree at this point. I am also firmly entrenched in my opinion as my brain simply refuses to process Lydon starting the game on the bench while we have 3 front court players he is better than in the game. I just can't wrap my brain around it.

 

[PhatOrange]

Gillon
Battle
White
Lydon
Coleman

 

[Dave85]

But bringing him off the bench does not reinforce that at all. I agree it makes sense he deferred last year but the coaches were trying to get him to shoot more last season as well when he had good shots. He was a great team player and a freshman. We were starting our 3 highest scorers so Roberson could start over Lydon plus Lydon was our backup 5 last season. We shall see and its a 1st world problem which is nice to have. I just think people forget that Roberson has only ever been a starter out of necessity. He is an energy/rebounding guy who is a very valuable part of the team but usually those guys are bench players on the better squads.

I understand that people aren't going to agree at this point. I am also firmly entrenched in my opinion as my brain simply refuses to process Lydon starting the game on the bench while we have 3 front court players he is better than in the game. I just can't wrap my brain around it.

You may have a point. JB was frustrated with Roberson last year with his if he could he would play someone else comment.

 

[RaleighSUfan]

I'm going with experience:
Gillon - 5th year grad student
White - 5th year grad student
Lydon - 2nd year player
Roberson - senior
Coleman - 5th year senior

If this is the actual starting lineup, it has to be one of the most experienced starting lineups in the NCAAs.

The average years of experience for this lineup (including the upcoming year) would be 4.2 years. That's crazy!!!

 

[jordoo]

I'm going with experience:
Gillon - 5th year grad student
White - 5th year grad student
Lydon - 2nd year player
Roberson - senior
Coleman - 5th year senior

If this is the actual starting lineup, it has to be one of the most experienced starting lineups in the NCAAs.

The average years of experience for this lineup (including the upcoming year) would be 4.2 years. That's crazy!!!

I suppose you could then bring Battle/Chukwu in at around the 14min mark and run the trunk monkey at them for a while. That would be interesting for sure.

 

[Dave85]

I suppose you could then bring Battle/Chukwu in at around the 14min mark and run the trunk monkey at them for a while. That would be interesting for sure.

I loved the trunk monkey commercials but I always worry making this comment might be considered some kind of racial thing. I thought it was an okay comment. I just hope no one finds it offensive.

 

[jordoo]

I loved the trunk monkey commercials but I always worry making this comment might be considered some kind of racial thing. I thought it was an okay comment. I just hope no one finds it offensive.

Wondering if its racist is the issue. I see absolutely no reason to connect monkeys with racism. Now don't get me wrong I understand why it is but we need to get to a place where that thought process doesn't even come up. People are people and most of us suck no matter what our racial background is. Either we all are evolved from apes/mammals or none of us are.

 

[PhatOrange]

Lydon scores and plays defense. Roberson rebounds and plays defense. Lydon > Roberson.

imo, 3 locks to start are Battle, White and Lydon.

 

[721Comstock]

You may have a point. JB was frustrated with Roberson last year with his if he could he would play someone else comment.

Yes - ONE comment, for ONE game.
Talk about taking a one-off comment, and chiseling it into stone.

Folks love to harp on this, as if JB hated Robey ALL season long or something.
(note: that would be Kaleb)

And, clearly - the message he was conveying, got across.

In the NCAA tournament, JB played Robey ("because he didn't have anybody else" ) for:
38 vs. Dayton
28 vs. MTSU (due to it being a blowout)
35 vs. Gonzaga
34 vs. UVA
33 vs. UNC

So, you were saying?

 

[OttoMets]

I don't see an obvious whipping boy. Seniors aren't whipping boys. Grad transfers aren't whipping boys. Lydon not a whipping boy. Probably not the Freshman AA. Leaves Howard , Chukwu and TT if he gets time.

Howard, Battle, and both big guys, I think (even senior bigs catch some heat from Boeheim - think of Craig Forth). Probably Roberson, too, at times. And Thompson, for sure, though he'll be out of the rotation fairly early.

Also, I'm glad so many people have come around to the idea that Lydon's most likely coming off the bench. I also think he'll lead us in minutes as he subs for any one of three positions and closes most games.

Starters are likely to be:
Gillon
Battle
White
Roberson
Coleman

Howard and Lydon will often be the first two off the bench (the Scoop/Joseph of 2010 or Waiters/Fair of 2012), and the big guy will also find his way into the game pretty quickly at times. Thompson will wow us in November but be a practice player by January - he's not better than Lydon and, all things being equal, he won't take minutes from a healthy Roberson.

Wouldn't shock me to see Howard borrow someone's starting job if he has a productive fall and one of those two guards aggravates Boeheim in the early going. (The same goes for Lydon, should White not impress. But the presumption is that the starting spots are the 5th-year guys' to lose.)

 

[OttoMets]

I think among those 3, Thompson might be this season's surprise. I could see him getting more quality minutes, depending on Coleman's ability on offense.

From the article in the paper today, I have a feeling that Moyer's got a stress fracture in his foot. Doesn't sound like you rest an ankle sprain for another six weeks, after 3 weeks of rest already. I think he may wind up redshirting, which might be for the best for Matt's development. It has helped so many players, and if it's beyond the player's control due to injury, that makes it easier for them to accept.

I just don't see where TT gets his minutes from. We have 4 guys who can play the 4 or 5, Roberson rebounding senior, Lydon possible lottery pick, DC capable senior who JB has shown has some trust for, and 72 a monster in the middle of the zone who spent a year in our system.

Just don't see where the minutes come from with that much capable depth. If Lydon and Roberson each average 30 minutes a game each, and the two centers average average a combined 35, then White is sitting on the bench quite a bit so TT can get some minutes.

This isn't the year for TT to play and I think it's quite obvious based on the roster.

Thompson's supposed to be very good, but I agree that the roster doesn't lend itself to his finding a role.

Other than injury, the most likely way Thompson finds a way onto the court for the meat of the schedule is if both centers prove incapable, Boeheim leans on Lydon as his safety-valve center, and Thompson shares time with Roberson. A lot of people take it as a given that we'll get ~30 minutes of solid post play out of the big guys, but both are relatively unproven. It's possible that Lydon could eat a lot of their time and Thompson would get his opportunity.

 

[OttoMets]

I definitely see Lydon as instant offense. Kind of like Grant, or Kris Joseph. It's there anyone else who played a sixth man role, playing starters minutes, and scoring a lot? If so the name escapes me. Scoop?

Damone Brown did it one year. And Dion, of course.

And I agree - Lydon's just so well-suited to come off the bench and wear opponents down.

 

[jordoo]

And I agree - Lydon's just so well-suited to come off the bench and wear opponents down.

I'm pulling your leg a bit but this reasoning is sort if redundant when you are talking about Lydon. Yes he would be better off the bench than any of the other front court players because he's better than them and has the most well rounded game. Of course that means he would be a better starter than them as well.

 

[OttoMets]

I'm pulling your leg a bit but this reasoning is sort if redundant when you are talking about Lydon. Yes he would be better off the bench than any of the other front court players because he's better than them and has the most well rounded game. Of course that means he would be a better starter than them as well.

You're right, but I think the talent difference is more pronounced if Lydon's coming in against defenders who are either tired starters or just backups. I think that'll give him an advantage that'd be different than what comes from bringing White, Roberson, or Coleman off the bench.

 

[MonsterGame]

Posting this from DC and to be Frank, I think it's possible there will be two White guys who Battle to be in the starting lineup this year.

 

[jordoo]

Posting this from DC and to be Frank, I think it's possible there will be two White guys who Battle to be in the starting lineup this year.

I have broken your code! Well done. LOL