The Official SU Basketball Transparency Thread

[PhatOrange]

I've said that from day one. Currently the pot is not big enough to pay players and upgrade facilities. Cuse has a much smaller pool of alumni to pull from and the great majority might only get enthused during a Final Four run.

The huge crowd at the dome are mainly made up of townies who, for the most part, are not in a position to be big donors. Those that are, need good reasons to give. Will Syracuse survive if they attract some five and six figure donors or do they need to hit home rums with seven figure donors.

Every cent of profit the basketball team makes should be reinvested back into the program (er Business). Something tells me it’s not..

 

[Timonen]

I lived in SEC country for 4 years very recently and there’s a major difference in how they run their schools compared to SU. Those schools know the main reason they are coming to school there is because of the football programs. The amount of applications they get a very direct correlation to the success of the football programs. They know that. They feed off that and promote it as such. They know kids aren’t coming there for the education.

Syracuse is very similar to Vandy except Vandy is in one of the best cities in the world, but they have always cared about academics 10x more than sports. However, bc they have gotten some money from donors, their football program has improved. And what do ya know, more recognition and more applications. When Syracuse had the success of the basketball team for all those years, kids (including myself) wanted to go there because of it. The lack of success makes it a negative talking point and correlation. However, the football team getting better is going to help for sure, we just need bball to get back to where it was.

Moral of the story- athletics are being put on the backburner for now from the “front offices” of the chancellor

I get the sentiment, but the problem is that we’re failing at academics, too. Our latest ranking is laughable. I don’t think the school can make the case that they’re trading off priorities between sports and academics because both under perform expectations. We can debate the value of any private school undergrad degree but Vandy can at least backup their academic mandate (while the continue to refurbish their sports facilities, too)

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Every cent of profit the basketball team makes should be reinvested back into the program (er Business). Something tells me it’s not..

Doesn't some or all of it go to help fund the non-revenue generating sports.

 

[Bulldog04]

I get the sentiment, but the problem is that we’re failing at academics, too. Our latest ranking is laughable. I don’t think the school can make the case that they’re trading off priorities between sports and academics because both under perform expectations. We can debate the value of any private school undergrad degree but Vandy can at least backup their academic mandate (while the continue to refurbish their sports facilities, too)

I agree. Another reason why I think the chancellor has got to go. If you want trade athletics for academics you better prove it. And he’s not and failing miserably

 

[Trueblue25]

Primarily, it's excuses.

Bingo, my thoughts exactly. Fran Brown’s intro presser he was up front about NIL and his expectations.

the basketball program loses a couple games where the main issue was coaching and the excuses come.

A lot of people dont donate because they dont buy into the staff and the transition from Boeheim was slop.

 

[orangenauburn]

All I can add is this.

Fran brought dividends year one with his NIL investments and if he can snag a win today and win a bowl game, he is going to continue to get NIL donations - as long as he keeps winning.

Red has mostly missed on his NIL investments to date. Westry hasn't played, Lampkin is hurt and who knows what we will get from him the whole season. Davis has been good. Carlos has been a bust. We moved on from Joe last year and he did well in a new environment and system. JJ has been ok overall.

And while Red did "miracle" work last year, this season hasn't exactly inspired confidence things will be better.

So if you have disposable income, and you are asked by Fran and Red for a donation, who are you funding?

 

[atlanticuse]

Shouldn’t our GM have an obudsman to help here with transparency?

 

[atlanticuse]

I get the sentiment, but the problem is that we’re failing at academics, too. Our latest ranking is laughable. I don’t think the school can make the case that they’re trading off priorities between sports and academics because both under perform expectations. We can debate the value of any private school undergrad degree but Vandy can at least backup their academic mandate (while the continue to refurbish their sports facilities, too)

Northwestern is probably a better example.. Vandy benefits from being in Nashville (which is the modern-day everytown version of Rochester or Columbus, OH), but their school morals have a lot to be desired. My daughter passed.

 

[ClamOtto]

I agree. Another reason why I think the chancellor has got to go. If you want trade athletics for academics you better prove it. And he’s not and failing miserably

If you're interested in where the university's priorities are, you should check out its 990 form (informational IRS return). Particularly check out the highest paid non-coach employees and compare their salaries to other R1 doctoral granting institutions. Some of the adminstrator salaries are so high it's absurd. Faculty salaries (not listed in the 990) are not above average though...

 

[pwong]

I get the sentiment, but the problem is that we’re failing at academics, too. Our latest ranking is laughable. I don’t think the school can make the case that they’re trading off priorities between sports and academics because both under perform expectations. We can debate the value of any private school undergrad degree but Vandy can at least backup their academic mandate (while the continue to refurbish their sports facilities, too)

I think Vandy has better resources than us, just that they never gave it to athletics until recently. They were able to pay Stackhouse's buyout (I belive it was $15M) and improve their basketball NIL in the same offseason.

 

[FireballPhil]

Not so sure about that. The medical school there helped my mother regrow nerves that some weird disease killed off with a trial drug. They have been nothing but good and helpful. Maybe other parts of the school aren't very good though IDK

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Guessing the Red hire kept some big donors from jumping ship at the time, and while I’m rooting for Red because his success is the program’s success, hopefully those folks are taking their medicine.

 

[CardiacCuse]

I actually think Red is doing fine with HS recruiting. It’s the transfer portal I think we bungled some of our spend on.

which is a reflection of the lack of funds

in this era...high school players value should pale in comparison to portal players though


you might have a good frehsman for 1 or 2 years tops

as good as donne and choppa are...they arent competing with the top juniors and seniors in the sport...they just dont have the experience to carry a team yet. by the time they do, theylll likely be gone...

so...yeah...getting high school players is easier in this era...those guys arent worth as much as they used to be...

if we had donnie and choppa for four years like the old days, SU would be BACK...but thats a loooooooooooooong shot...not going to happen.

HS recruiting is the supplement now ...its not what it used to be.

but bigger picture, NIL should be about the opportunity...the amounts the players get shouldnt necessarily be known...right? its about capitalizing and marketing etc...the better they play, the better the money gets...no?


doing well for a fanbase like SU...should be a gold mine...no matter what the boosters are doing...right????

 

[CardiacCuse]

Every cent of profit the basketball team makes should be reinvested back into the program (er Business). Something tells me it’s not..

yeah...flagship sports...generally fund the rest of the athletics, imo


its opaque for a reason....

im sure if everything was transparent...people would not be happy with the decision makng from the very top

 

[GHLF]

Primarily, it's excuses.

This seems vague, no pun intended. Expound?

 

[GHLF]

Perhaps.

But on the list of causes about what has sunk, and what IS currently sinking SU basketball, that's pretty far down the list.

Expound?

 

[GHLF]

Bingo, my thoughts exactly. Fran Brown’s intro presser he was up front about NIL and his expectations.

the basketball program loses a couple games where the main issue was coaching and the excuses come.

A lot of people dont donate because they dont buy into the staff and the transition from Boeheim was slop.

Completely disagree, Boeheim transition slop, if it was it centered around 1 person

 

[Trueblue25]

Completely disagree, Boeheim transition slop, if it was it centered around 1 person

Jim.

 

[RF2044]

This seems vague, no pun intended. Expound?

No, it is actually quite straight forward -- given that this is a results driven profession.

 

[NineOneSeven]

The world of NIL now which has been around what like 4(?) years, makes it hard to even remember how the hell anything worked prior to it.

 

[ar inj]

There must be some money somewhere because I have seen the SU softball team at DFW and they play 2/3 or more of their games at places you cannot get to by bus in a timely fashion.

 

[phil77]

The world of NIL now which has been around what like 4(?) years, makes it hard to even remember how the hell anything worked prior to it.

Under the table NIL.

 

[two3zone]

which is a reflection of the lack of funds

in this era...high school players value should pale in comparison to portal players though


you might have a good frehsman for 1 or 2 years tops

as good as donne and choppa are...they arent competing with the top juniors and seniors in the sport...they just dont have the experience to carry a team yet. by the time they do, theylll likely be gone...

so...yeah...getting high school players is easier in this era...those guys arent worth as much as they used to be...

if we had donnie and choppa for four years like the old days, SU would be BACK...but thats a loooooooooooooong shot...not going to happen.

HS recruiting is the supplement now ...its not what it used to be.

but bigger picture, NIL should be about the opportunity...the amounts the players get shouldnt necessarily be known...right? its about capitalizing and marketing etc...the better they play, the better the money gets...no?


doing well for a fanbase like SU...should be a gold mine...no matter what the boosters are doing...right????

I have been saying this gently because people are so excited about Anthony. The portal is the future, you build with high school, but you're not winning without free agents.

This isn't the majors leagues where you have 2 or 3 years to develop players and build a franchise, you need hired guns year after year with little to no question marks to be good.

 

[dasher]

So far Wildhack's big alumni hires are not doing as well as his one outside hire as far as on the field results. Hopefully Wildhack has figured that out and when the time is right, he uses that blueprint as replacements where needed.

But Red has the #6 recruiting class for next season. Melo, and hopefully others, will use this to get money flowing in the right direction.

You didn't think the woman's program did well last year?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

My thoughts...

-I do think some of our donors were JB fans and not SU BBall fans. Need a big personality to help get the big fish in today's game.

-It only takes one player to make a difference. We shouldn't be trying to get 10 really good players, at least until we are back to being Cuse basketball. If we had 2-3 really good players we would be Top 25. Shouldn't need as much money if you spend it wisely.

-If you want fans to pay for players you need likable or good players. It is a little bit of chicken or egg, but how can you justify increasing one's NIL contribution if you spend it on the players we have the last 2 years?

-I would think HS kids are cheaper. Portal players are nice to have but if everyone is new to the team every year, go for the higher end talent. Which will be HS kids.

-Most SEC schools are FB schools. And several of them are in poor states. So if most of their fans are sending money to FB, how do the fans have anything left for BBall? And that is assuming they even care about BBall. Most probably think of BBall season as a hobby to get you to FB season. Not getting big bucks there.

-SU is a BBall school with a large passionate fanbase. Easily Top 5 for filling arenas when we are on the road and at home. Sure there are bigger state schools out there but do they care enough to contribute? If so, why do they not show up to games?

-How do we know what other programs actually have for NIL but at the same time we do not divulge what we have? That makes no sense.

-We should have been busing all this time. Wouldn't flying take longer? Wouldn't flying also have a bigger impact on you physically?

As an aside it is too bad this country has such a low quality rail system. I wish I could take a high speed train to Syracuse vs driving 3:45+. I could make more BBall games that way. And the teams could use it like soccer teams do in Europe.


Edit

A few more thoughts...

-How did we have the money to be ahead of the game with a practice facility but now we are poor?

-Red was handed the job. His buyout should be tiny. It would be a dereliction of duty to have given him a real contract.

-If we have a Top 5 fanbase we should be able to have a Top 25 NIL. If we do not, there is a huge disconnect. That is an internal problem to SU that needs to be fixed. The problem isn't the NIL but the people running things.