The Talent Issue | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

The Talent Issue

I have been contemplating a similar post, but you did it far more eloquently than I could have. I would like to add on something everyone knows but twists around. The team took a trip to Italy because in JB's words-this team is going to need all the experience it can get because it is going to take some time for them to this good. The teams in Italy were supposed to be among the best in the country but they were no competition for us at all. This may have been great for their confidence and team building, but without any pressure, they really didn't get any better. Add in the fact a couple of the guys couldn't even play there makes the trip more of a waste of time than productive, but still fun for them and glad they got to go.

So we entered the season with high hopes, even though everyone knew it was going to be a very young team. But didn't 2003 show it was okay for a team to be young? At the same time, the last few years have taken a grind on all of us, as we have watched our team slog through the season. Even in the wins, although we were happy, there not the fluid game we all wanted to see, and now the performance so far this year has exasperated it. We have beaten the teams we should have this year, and lost to those we all knew were going to be hard for this young group of kids going up against the more experienced teams. Sure we all wanted the "W", or at least to look a lot more competitive than we were-for me especially the Iowa game since I live 90 minutes from their campus and my triplets were born in the hospital there. Yet through it all it isn't quite asa bad as we perceive it to be.

Our defense over all has kept us in games. We have kept opponents scoring low enough-most with opponents scoring in the 70's or under. That makes games very winnable provided we have even decent scoring.

Yet offense continues to be a struggle. Over the past few years it has always been the offense that drags us down. ISO offense rarely works, especially at this level, and the good teams we have faced this year have been good enough to disrupt our learning curve and probably even set us back. Not being able to run the plays we want because of a higher caliber defense is no way to gel as a team and get everyone on the same page. But we have lost faith because of the struggles of the last few years offensive style. This year we actually have some shooters at multiple positions, how long before everything finally comes together?

There are definitely some players that are better than others, but if we are truly looking we would understand there are thousands of kids who want to play college ball then on to the NBA. Every team has those players not 5 star rated who are awesome, and we have had a few of them ourselves. Indeed even this year, Girard has the looks of being one of those players. Overall the talent level per team is pretty equal, and has been trending this way for many years. Mid major programs have become so successful for this fact-they take the good kids that aren't five stars and turn them into solid players-the way college is supposed to be designed for. But the one and done era has diminished this and the Kentucky and Duke programs show that 5 star guys can win-yet they also show how because of their youth it is extremely difficult to win championships with.

So what do we look forward to? Hopefully the team improves,gels, gets a cohesive offense that frees our shooters up to do what they do best-put the ball in the hoop. Although I think the NCAA is a huge long shot, I would be okay if we can get it together enough to get in the NIT and even more important to me-continue the winning streak. Don't give up on the kids, support them. They are playing for us, trying every day to improve and win. Don't let your frustration over the way JB has handled the program the last few years detract from your support for these kids. Debate JB all you want but please don't take it out on the players. They are doing all they can to ensure your ego doesn't get to bruised.
YOU HAVE TRIPLETS???! If I wore a hat, I would doff it! I really liked your post.

I keep thinking that as upset and worried as we are, what is it like for the players? How do they go to practice every day, and keep their spirits up? How can they stay in the games mentally? The Iowa game was so frustrating because in the first half we were in it, and in the second half, suddenly we weren’t. (Yeah yeah, I know, the Iowa coach made adjustments.) The mental aspect of this is so damn tough. Let’s take our level of distress and multiply it by 10 for our players and coaches.

We know JB is going to retire relatively soon and we know this is a year where we will be building towards a better team next year (although with Elijah leaving . . . ). We have never been in this situation before. Will we be able to recover, as Carolina did eventually after Dean Smith left? It took them a while. Or will we remain in mediocrity no matter who replaces Boeheim? Everyone has to answer that for themselves, and although I hope most fans will stay the course, I can’t negatively judge anyone who gives up.

We have a great tradition and a fantastic environment for basketball up here. The Dome is being renovated and we have fans willing to drive two hours one way to see our teams play. We have built it, they came, and we will rebuild it, and they will come again. I am as befuddled as the next fan about how to get through this transition, and I still have hopes that our team will get it together and surprise people. I feel that if I am there when we are up, I should still be there when we are down. I REALLY like our players, and will have my seat in the Dome for every game this year. I honor Boeheim for everything he has given to us, even as I sympathetically understand that he is near the end of an incredible career. If I had anything to say about it, he would go out in a blaze of glory.

Go Orange!
 
Anyone care to make a player-by-player review as I did, comparing the talent level of the players to their recent predecessors?

Comparing to recent predecessors is a poor comparison. We’ve had a historically bad recent stretch by Boeheim standards. How do our current undertalented players compare to our recent undertalented players is not the comparison we should be making. The comparison is how do our current players compare to the talent level of Boeheim teams before he let the standard sink to 13-15 losses per season. And the answer to that, very obviously, is poorly.
 
Comparing to recent predecessors is a poor comparison. We’ve had a historically bad recent stretch by Boeheim standards. How do our current undertalented players compare to our recent undertalented players is not the comparison we should be making. The comparison is how do our current players compare to the talent level of Boeheim teams before he let the standard sink to 13-15 losses per season. And the answer to that, very obviously, is poorly.


The issue was whether this team has less talent than Syracuse has had in decades, so recent years are relevant to detect a trend. We certainly don't have as much talent as we had before the recent probation. Keep in mind that the aftermath of a probation is that you don't want to get flagged for something else, so your ability to compete for top recruits remains impaired for some years afterwards. We might have as much talent as we had in certain periods, like the early 80's, the period after the first probation, that 1996-97 team, and the down period in the mid 2000's.
 
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He did jump - off the boat!

Is he gone for good? Any word as to what is on his mind other than needing time to heal after the thumb surgery?
JB never once mentioned the thumb injury during his carey tirade. not once.
is it a ruse ? i don't know. but the kid clearly was doghoused and never getting any more pt.
 
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The issue was whether this team has less talent than Syracuse has had in decades, so recent years are relevant to detect a trend. We certainly don't have as much talent as we had before the recent probation. Keep in mind that the aftermath of a probation is that you don't want to get flagged for something else, so your ability to compete for top recruits remains impaired for some years afterwards. We might have as much talent as we had in certain periods, like the early 80's, the period after the first probation, that 1996-97 team, and the down period in the mid 2000's.

Personally I think the 96-97 team would destroy this team. Otis would drop 25 against this team without breaking a sweat and Jason Hart’s defense would give our starting backcourt recurring nightmares.
 
wanna fill the dome? you need a team that runs and dunks transition ball.not the grandma panties stuff we've seen. hide that sh#####T under the mattress. we want to see some excitement on the court. slam and jam.
 
You cannot look at talent in total isolation. Personally, I am not nearly as sold on Sid's talent as you are, but that is neither here nor there. Point is that he is an undersized center and weather or not you want to attribute the end result simply lack of size or lack of skill, etc, the net result is that in ACC terms he is unquestionably a below average player. You say Marek should play at forward, but though he has a lot of skills, he lacks the biggest skills that a forward should have, ie, the ability to finish in traffic and the ability to shoot consistently. You talk about the guards. Yes, they have shooting skills (so far only on paper and on the practice court). Joe can also handle and see the floor, but in the end you are putting two non-athletic guards on the floor at the same time. Each might thrive in a different scenario, but together it adds up to lack of chemistry and very poor roster construction. Quincy is a work in progress who I happen to be high on, but nonetheless he is work in progress. You mention Bras, I used to be very high on him, but what I see now is a lack of motor and an unwillingness to mix it up and do some dirty work. You laud Howard, who deserves plaudits on many levels, but unfortunately none of those levels is having D1 athleticism. Lastly, you absolutely trash Goodine. If you want to talk raw undeveloped talent he may have as much as anybody else on the roster. He badly needs strength and he badly needs confidence.

Bottom line, this is not only a sub-talented group, but it is also comprised of weak undersized players who do not particularly compliment each other. As hard as it is to imagine, the sum is much less than the parts.

This is actually a pretty accurate take on the players - I like the part about Buddy and Girard - they both have some nice traits but they both are so unathletic that they are a major problem when on the same court - similar to Marek and Sidibe
 
wanna fill the dome? you need a team that runs and dunks transition ball.not the grandma panties stuff we've seen. hide that sh#####T under the mattress. we want to see some excitement on the court. slam and jam.


Actually this team runs more than we have in years.
 
Elijah Hughes is an NBA player and will be there next year for sure. He’s showing that he’s not just a shooter. He’s handling and passing the ball very well and his exciting dunks and blocks bring the crowd to its feet. He’s also got the best shooting range we’ve ever had here. He could probably get a little better at driving to the basket

Not sure how many folks actually watch a lot of the NBA but there's an extremely small chance that Elijah is an NBA player next year. Almost 0% shot that he is an NBA rotation player.
 
Saying Hughes has the best shooting range is just not accurate.
James Southerland had more range.
Hughes is a better passing version of Demetrius Nichols.
Nichols was a great player his Senior year.
Hughes is a good player but he isn’t a lock NBA player and I would bet he goes undrafted if he leaves after this year.
The rest of talent is young and raw.

Our bigs need more help by far.
 
But how can you tell if they're running?

From "Net Points etc. after November post":

Fast Break Percentage
(FBP/(defensive rebounds + blocks + steals)
Virginia I 5/16 = 31.25% vs. 2/18 = 11.1%
Colgate 16/45 = 35.6% vs. 0/27 = 0.00%
Seattle 14/43 = 35.6% vs. 6/29 = 20.7%
Cornell 12/25 = 48.0% vs. 6/23 = 26.1%
Bucknell 28/59 = 47.5% vs. 12/27 = 44.4%
Oklahoma St. 16/23 = 69.6% vs. 35/25 = 140.0%
Penn State 12/31 = 38.7% vs. 19/44 = 43.2%
Average: 103/242 = 42.6% vs. 80/193 = 41.5% We were 4-1 when we won this stat.
In Wins: 70/172 = 40.7% vs. 24/106 = 22.6% In Losses: 33/70 = 47.1% vs. 56/87 = 64.4%
(Yup, we run more in our losses than in our wins. But the big difference is how much more the other team runs)

From my final Net Points etc. update last year:

Fast Break Percentage – (FBP/(defensive rebounds + blocks + steals)

We got 286 fast break points out of 1238 opportunities (23.1%). They got 273/1160 (23.5%). We won the stat 18 times, lost it 16 times and 12-6 when we won it and 8-6 when we lost it. This used to be a big advantage for us but not in the last 7 seasons.
 
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Saying Hughes has the best shooting range is just not accurate.
James Southerland had more range.
Hughes is a better passing version of Demetrius Nichols.
Nichols was a great player his Senior year.
Hughes is a good player but he isn’t a lock NBA player and I would bet he goes undrafted if he leaves after this year.
The rest of talent is young and raw.

Our bigs need more help by far.


Hughes hit three treys against Iowa that were 25-30 feet from the basket.
 
Not sure how many folks actually watch a lot of the NBA but there's an extremely small chance that Elijah is an NBA player next year. Almost 0% shot that he is an NBA rotation player.


What's missing? I see 30 footers, lots of assists, some rebounds plus athletic dunks and blocks.
 
When my boss asks me why im not making my goals i can't say "my employees suck" . At the end of the day im responsible
 

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