The Thrill is Gone

[David321]

Though I’m a newer Syracuse fan I have been following college football for over 20 years. I didn’t like it when they got rid of the BCS computers, as I knew it would introduce human bias. I also hated it when they introduced the playoff as I knew people would only care about that and stop caring about all the other bowls.

I didn’t really like NIL either or the portal. It is what it is though as it’s constantly changing. For a football junkie what other alternative is there, NFL? XFL/ USFL?

It’s still the best and most exciting product around.

 

[orangepassion]

The NCAA could have pulled its head out of the sand 15 years ago and figured out a legitimate way to compensate kids on a universal basis that could have potentially headed off NIL in the first place.

A couple here keep saying this like it's a fact, but I don't see why anything the NCAA would have done would have necessarily prevented NIL.

 

[qdawgg]

College sports has always been about coaching and the school than the players. Most fans only know about a player on signing day and then two years later when they start contributing. Then they know about the player for one or two years before they graduate or go pro. The portal and NIL is only magnifying the impact of coaching and the school because now most schools will have 2 years max with a player.

I’m not sure if this was the point you were trying to make but it resonated with me. I have no problem with the players making $ but it did feel certain things about CFB will/would be lost as a result.

One of those being, having a player you watch from the time they’re recruited until they graduate. But the point you make about not even knowing the player till they get on the field after a couple years is a great point. Honestly, thanks for pointing that out b/c I never made that connection and it helps check off one of the things I didn’t like with everything happening. I’m going to watch players play for 2 solid years whether we get them through the portal or recruited them. It’s the same difference.

Great point.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

A couple here keep saying this like it's a fact, but I don't see why anything the NCAA would have done would have necessarily prevented NIL.

Their only solution was to do nothing because they already weren't allowing it.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I’m not sure if this was the point you were trying to make but it resonated with me. I have no problem with the players making $ but it did feel certain things about CFB will/would be lost as a result.

One of those being, having a player you watch from the time they’re recruited until they graduate. But the point you make about not even knowing the player till they get on the field after a couple years is a great point. Honestly, thanks for pointing that out b/c I never made that connection and it helps check off one of the things I didn’t like with everything happening. I’m going to watch players play for 2 solid years whether we get them through the portal or recruited them. It’s the same difference.

Great point.

Spot on and well said.

I will say I am concerned that if we get lucky and lock onto a freshman or sophomore who has incredible talent and gets recruited to a top 10 program… kind of like Duce or if Tucker had gone to Georgia. Oh well, we’ll see how it plays out.

 

[RoysRunts]

Boils down to one "GREED" see Milton Freedman..

 

[FrancoPizza]

On the other hand, I (now) view sports as entertainment, not worthy of an emotional investment, or a financial commitment outside of television access.

without emotional attachment there are no fans. How can something be entertaining without any kind of attachment? When you watch Stranger Things you’re invested in the characters. For me, personally, if I’m not rooting for or invested in a team, I have no interest in watching a game.

 

[Acesn8s]

I hate the NCAA but there is nothing they could do. Pay every kid? Some schools would pay more illegally, decide to pay no kids same response there was no way of controlling this we just live in different times. Controlling labor is damn near impossible in this day and age. Little known fact in the great state of NY agreed to pay large groups of workers 2.5 their salary for overtime, have been for a year, you have guards in prisons and nurses and SUNY workers making over 200k look it up because of overtime. January 1st hit and the state does away with it. Same staffing issues as before in all these agencies but now there will be push back.and people threatening to not do any overtime at colleges and prisons and hospitals are all in same boat as last year, if states can’t figure it out how can the NCAA?

 

[GENESEO1983]

BINGO!!!!! Well written, well stated and well articulated! I never missed a game in person for 20 years, however I find where I am to be much more appealing than the greed which has overtaken college hoops and football. Since I now watch the games on TV, I guess I’m not a “real” fan…….

 

[All4SU]

Which is why it’s a socio-economic bomb because many either don’t they have the ability to wait or the time to wait for a pay off. This isn’t some “everyone is being selfish” thing. Some guys come from poverty this white, middle aged board can’t comprehend.

I believe you’re wrong. And yes I’m white. But no, I’m not middle-aged, unless one expects to live a ridiculously long time.

The path to success and financial stability is a generational thing. One works hard and makes incremental steps up the ladder. It’s a somewhat rare situation for someone to make the rags to riches leap all by himself. It happens, and frankly it happens more today here in this country than any other place or time in history. But it’s still not the norm. To tell a kid he should put all of effort into going from nothing to limousines and mansions in a few years is irresponsible. Would you tell your own kid that? Tell kids the truth. Help them make good decisions. Place value on hard work and education. In my opinion it’s selfish to tell a kid otherwise, just because we want to be entertained by them throwing or catching a football.

 

[David321]

I believe you’re wrong. And yes I’m white. But no, I’m not middle-aged, unless one expects to live a ridiculously long time.

The path to success and financial stability is a generational thing. One works hard and makes incremental steps up the ladder. It’s a somewhat rare situation for someone to make the rags to riches leap all by himself. It happens, and frankly it happens more today here in this country than any other place or time in history. But it’s still not the norm. To tell a kid he should put all of effort into going from nothing to limousines and mansions in a few years is irresponsible. Would you tell your own kid that? Tell kids the truth. Help them make good decisions. Place value on hard work and education. In my opinion it’s selfish to tell a kid otherwise, just because we want to be entertained by them throwing or catching a football.

He keeps on harping on the whole white middle aged middle class thing, we get it already.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

He keeps on harping on the whole white middle aged middle class thing, we get it already.

First time I've mentioned it. But just go reductive.

 

[NJCuse97]

The NCAA could have pulled its head out of the sand 15 years ago and figured out a legitimate way to compensate kids on a universal basis that could have potentially headed off NIL in the first place. I proposed years ago a system in which first year players at a school make X...second year players make Y...etc, until a 4th or 5th year player makes a nice chunk of change (i don't know these exact numbers...10K for a first year player...25K for a senior? 50?)

Those numbers would reset if a player transfers.

Point being, there were measures that could have been taken that could have reduced the number of kids leaving. The NCAA dropped the ball.

Now, the ONLY two things I think that can be done.

1- Close the portal until after the Bowl season
2- Allow Bowls to pay players directly. Perhaps a 50:50 split players to leagues. Will $10K or $20K keep a very likely early rounder from opting out? Probably not. But will it motivate a later round type who may not even stick? perhaps.

If the bowls pay the players, is it now the players’ responsibility to get to the game? Hotel? Insurance? Pads? The school is supposed to bear the expense of this and not the potential financial benefit? What is the incentive for the school to make a bowl? We no longer recruit HS due to the portal (intentional exaggeration) so it isn’t for that. If you want to suggest that success in bowls breeds success getting bowl caliber players, then fine, but that is truly a free agent market.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I believe you’re wrong. And yes I’m white. But no, I’m not middle-aged, unless one expects to live a ridiculously long time.

The path to success and financial stability is a generational thing. One works hard and makes incremental steps up the ladder. It’s a somewhat rare situation for someone to make the rags to riches leap all by himself. It happens, and frankly it happens more today here in this country than any other place or time in history. But it’s still not the norm. To tell a kid he should put all of effort into going from nothing to limousines and mansions in a few years is irresponsible. Would you tell your own kid that? Tell kids the truth. Help them make good decisions. Place value on hard work and education. In my opinion it’s selfish to tell a kid otherwise, just because we want to be entertained by them throwing or catching a football.

Are you arguing that FBS football players haven't worked hard? And that's the nature of sports - going from nothing to a lot of money quickly.

Really though, this goes back to the point I think we've sort of agreed on - letting players take free classes is not enough to compensate he value they generate in the short term.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

If the bowls pay the players, is it now the players’ responsibility to get to the game? Hotel? Insurance? Pads? The school is supposed to bear the expense of this and not the potential financial benefit? What is the incentive for the school to make a bowl? We no longer recruit HS due to the portal (intentional exaggeration) so it isn’t for that. If you want to suggest that success in bowls breeds success getting bowl caliber players, then fine, but that is truly a free agent market.

Split the pots. I agree the schools need a sizable chunk of at least 50%. Possibly more. But the bowls wont exist at all if people stop watching, which they will if players stop playing.

 

[MikeSU02]

Certainly not directed at Java, long time solid member of the forum for sure and certainly understand the POV.

I think the portal will only help Syracuse as well as the switch to a 12 team championship. I certainly understand that some don't like the new era of college football. That said, either watch or don't. In addition, at the end of the day it really doesn't matter all that much. It's a game and if it isn't fun to watch then simply don't. It's entertainment and if it isn't entertaining find something else that is

I hate college basketball and have for quite a few years. I watch Syracuse only at this point and that is it. I still hope for their success but really don't care much. The product has become too watered down for me and once Syracuse is done for the year I don't watch any of it. I do watch a ton of NBA because I find it highly entertaining where some do not as they hate the load management and players jumping ship and demanding trades etc. Understand that as well but to me it's by far the best basketball out there and not even close. I'd sooner watch Sacramento/ Charlotte than I would UNC/ Duke. To each their own

You are my basketball fan doppelgänger.

 

[phreddie]

And that's the nature of sports - going from nothing to a lot of money quickly.

Really?

 

[NJCuse97]

Split the pots. I agree the schools need a sizable chunk of at least 50%. Possibly more. But the bowls wont exist at all if people stop watching, which they will if players stop playing.

Agreed, but from what I have heard or read, the schools risk taking a loss going to a bowl as it is. Cut that in half, and it will be the school opting out

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Really?

League minimum for the NFL is ~$575k. Heck of a spike in salary from free classes and a $5,000 stipend if you can make it to the league.

 

[phreddie]

League minimum for the NFL is ~$575k. Heck of a spike in salary from free classes and a $5,000 stipend if you can make it to the league.

IF.
What, like 1% make the NFL? That is not "the nature of sports"

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

IF.
What, like 1% make the NFL? That is not "the nature of sports"

You’re taking me out of context.

 

[Xanadu]

I've been complaining about the changes in college football with the unholy synergy of false-NIL and no-fault transfer, and this bowl season I saw how that plays out. I speak only for myself.

First - I flew up to Syracuse from Atlanta with the kids on Christmas day, to see my folks and to let the kids see winter. We had a great time. Thursday, at the start of the Pinstripe Bowl, we were at Clay Park South, sledding. We missed almost the entire first half, and I would have been fine missing the entire game.

I hate NFL "opt-outs". It's bullcrap. Since when does a player get to say, "Sorry, I'm not showing up for work today?" When a team's best players choose not to play, to me, that is no longer the team I became invested in during the season. And a loss is a loss - if by opting out you caused the bulk of the roster to lose, you are at fault. That problem is of recent vintage, but it is compounded by the intra-season portal chumps now. Such a joke.

So as I was watching the second half of the bowl, I thought, I don't care. I could have skipped this entire game and I wouldn't care. The team on the field was not the Syracuse University Orangemen 2022-2023 squad, it was some weird interstitial pick-up squad.

I haven't watched any other bowl games. In particular, I didn't watch the CFB playoff games. I no longer have any interest in watching the "best teams" that money can buy. I will not be part of feeding that beast.

An argument that surfaced here recently, and a comment from a poster about the mindset of some previous players, struck me as specious. The gist of it is that players don't get fair value in the system, they haven't thought so for a while, and they are nevertheless stuck because there is no other alternative.

A player's objective value is only a valid concept in the totality of the system in which the player seeks to capitalize on that value. For years, the NCAA allowed a system in which players were paid in-kind for the value of their college education. You think that's not enough? Then go play in an alternative system where you can achieve your "fair value".

If that fair value had a market, it would have materialized by now. Someone would have come up with a pro feeder league outside of college athletics. The fact that it didn't means - you have no argument! You don't like it - go do something else! Advocate for whatever you want, but don't curse the hand that feeds you while you seek your golden goose.

I was in the Dome for the first game, been on this board for 20 years now, and college football has lost "it" for me. The thrill is gone.

I get the frustration, but the reason an NFL feeder hasn’t been built yet is because of the NCAA and the pull of college football. They would be paying players which cuts into the bottom line while the NCAA with all the fan devotion and money does not pay players. The NCAA margin is enormous for the investment. The current trajectory has the NCAA shifting towards a pro feeder league that is not tied to academics.

 

[im4cuse]

I would say it’s not the front of the uniform but the back that matters to kids.

But USC pays players and has for a while.

 

[Xanadu]

A couple here keep saying this like it's a fact, but I don't see why anything the NCAA would have done would have necessarily prevented NIL.

They were never going to prevent NIL and I don’t know that anyone is arguing they should have. The issue is not NIL, but the governance of it to create a logical market that can compensate players for their work. The NCAA could have planned and established the current system 15 years ago, but they clearly wanted to keep exploiting unpaid workers for larger pay days; sorry, “student athletes.” Instead they got forced to do it through the federal government and failed to plan properly.

Everyone hates it right now because schools cannot coordinate a budget, no one needs to be transparent about it, and there are no clear market values. Add in the transfer portal and you have the perfect storm. 95% of the current situation could have been prevented if Emmert, SEC/B1G commish, and others with power in the NCAA has been proactive rather than reactive.

 

[All4SU]

He keeps on harping on the whole white middle aged middle class thing, we get it already.

Yeah, I think he said it once. It’s not really a problem with me. We have all kinds of conversations here, and 99.9% of the time no one worries or cares what the ethnic background of a poster may be. Though I will admit to some gender bias over the years. I frequently make the mistake assuming that I’m talking with a male fan, and I am sometimes surprised when I find out otherwise. I try to do better. But frankly, it’s not like I’m going to speak differently if it’s a male or a female. Everyone gets along pretty well here. That’s the only reason why almost all of us read/post here. So I’m not bothered by LeMoyne’s generalization. It’s all good.