The Upside and the Downside of Trevor Cooney

[Ward]

I'm going to play devils advocate here, people can attack me all they want.

He is shooting better this year. He'shooting a higher percentage than every year Gerry had, but 1 this year. He's at 36%, higher than last year and he and Malachi's numbers are pretty much the same across the board.

So basically if Cooney is inconsistent, so is Malachi, and yes I know he's a freshman that has upside, but I'm just pointing out the facts here.

Honestly I don't even think we're complaining about any player if we had a point guard and a post game to complement our shooters, but we don't, so here we are.

Fair enough, his 3FG% is up but he also has a small dip overall from the floor. This is where I think things have to start being dissected a little bit because yes from 3 he is very similar if not better % wise than McNamara or Malachi but that's only one piece of it. Gerry was our primary ball handler, created for others, and also could take guys off the dribble. Malachi attacks the rim and can get to the line or finish (inconsistent at times albeit) and also has shown to be a pretty good passer when driving and hitting guys underneath. Cooney doesn't have those pieces to his game so when you look at impact on that side of the floor and comparing him being similar from 3 to those guys that isn't giving you enough to stack up if you aren't getting the other contributions as well.

I guess to sum it up ideally you would like him to be a considerably better and more consistent 3 point shooter than what he has been if that is ultimately the main/only way he's making an impact on that end.

Your other points I agree with. The team is missing pieces and is incomplete. Malachi and Cooney are both inconsistent but like you said the way it works is expectations/fan tolerance in that area for a 5th year senior who has started for 3 years are different than a freshman.

 

[Knicks411]

I figure this thread is setting Cooney up to have a huge game on Saturday.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

and saying he shoots a higher % than gmac is a little ridiculous..

GMac's not a good benchmark for 3 point shooting percentage, anyway.

A player making more threes than GMac? That's noteworthy.

A player shooting a higher percentage from three than GMac? Decent achievement, not remarkable.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I figure this thread is setting Cooney up to have a huge game on Saturday.

Let's hope.

 

[CorduroyG]

I'm not taking away Gmac's clutch moments (although being clutch is somewhat fluky), however 2 out of the last three years Cooney has shot a higher percentage from three than Gmac did his last three years.

Their overall percentages are really comparable and Gmac played with a future HOF'er one year, and a 10 year NBA vet for 3. I sat through an awful lot of 4-17's in the student section during Gmac's career and I know he was a pg but he tried to do too much also with better talent around him.

Also lets not kid ourselves, Gmac, like Flynn, and Devo were all horrible defenders in the zone. None of them cared about D and JB didn't/couldn't hold them accountable. Cooney isn't Triche or MCW up top, but he's much better defensively than just about everyone we had playing defense at the top in the 2000's.

I'm not trying to be the Gmac basher here cause he's been great for the Cuse, but I call it like I see it.

gmac didnt have just regular run of the mill clutch moments, he had LEGENDARY clutch moments. that outweights cooney shooting a higher % by like a bazillion. even taking away his 2 legendary moments (kansas and big east tournament), he also had buzzer beater at gtown. game winning 3 against notre dame at dome his frosh year. dropping FORTY THREE in the tournament against byu, and we needed just about all of those to win. i honestly cant think if 1 clutch shot or game cooney has had that compares to those. his signature game was against notre dame 2 years ago, gmac had a better game in the freakin ncaa tournament.

 

[Eric15]

gmac didnt have just regular run of the mill clutch moments, he had LEGENDARY clutch moments. that outweights cooney shooting a higher % by like a bazillion. even taking away his 2 legendary moments (kansas and big east tournament), he also had buzzer beater at gtown. game winning 3 against notre dame at dome his frosh year. dropping FORTY THREE in the tournament against byu, and we needed just about all of those to win. i honestly cant think if 1 clutch shot or game cooney has had that compares to those. his signature game was against notre dame 2 years ago, gmac had a similar game in the freakin ncaa tournament.

I agree -- it's hard to quantify GMac's importance using traditional metrics.

 

[suttree]

I never thought a thread would make me miss the Shaky Potatoes recurring megaton blammo days.

Cripes! This is what a full week off after an uninspired-play loss will do to a frustrated fan base in the dead of winter.

 

[rrlbees]

This reply is basically another version of what I said that you make a point but then expect your audience to believe it just because you say so but provide no data or evidence to back up your claim. Also, maybe you missed my other post but it kinda applies to your reply just now. Can you clarify when you say how revered Cooney is by JB and other coaches what the scope is? If the praise is that he plays hard, is a good locker room guy, and does what they ask then yea he's probably a coach's dream in that regard. If the praise is based on how good he is compared to our past guys at his position and other 2 guards around the country, I don't think he stacks up as well. I think that's an important distinction to make.

That's a silly game. Expect the audience to believe me? I made a point and it is easily backed up by JB quotes and quotes of other coaches. Why should I do a search for them because people aren't listening to them or don't believe them? A good example is JBs interview yesterday about Roberson. At the end he takes Cooney saying the same things as people here say. One is that Cooney is a very good defender. He had said that before as well as other coaches. Some here call him a horrible defender. Just because they don't know how we play the zone and what each persons job is doesn't make what they say so. But I'm not searching for every quote.

 

[rrlbees]

I've thought this as well. It seems like much of this discussion wouldn't exist and Cooney would just be accepted for what he is if it weren't for the Cooney defense team consistently trying to convince everybody he is something that he's not. However, I could have read your post the wrong way.

Not even close and I'll give you the benefit of not seeing what gets deleted. Since the Pitt game there have been 4-5 different threads bashing Cooney either as its own thread or another thread turning into a Cooney discussion. I don't see Cooney cheerleading threads. And I only see threads with people defending Cooney after its become negative.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I never thought a thread would make me miss the Shaky Potatoes recurring megaton blammo days.

Cripes! This is what a full week off after an uninspired-play loss will do to a frustrated fan base in the dead of winter.

 

[tbonezone]

"But I'm not searching for every quote."

how about searching for even one all conference honorable mention. cuz i looked and can't find one.
listen i hope the kid shoots 65% deep for the remainder of the season. i truly truly do. it's our only chance.
but please don't put him in the same "club" as those other guards and build him up to be something he never was.

(ps. just for comparison gerry was selected all BE freshman team and ncaa all tourney team in 2003. 2nd team BE in '04 and 1st team in 2005 and 06. the coaches vote in the polls.)

 

[Ward]

That's a silly game. Expect the audience to believe me? I made a point and it is easily backed up by JB quotes and quotes of other coaches. Why should I do a search for them because people aren't listening to them or don't believe them? A good example is JBs interview yesterday about Roberson. At the end he takes Cooney saying the same things as people here say. One is that Cooney is a very good defender. He had said that before as well as other coaches. Some here call him a horrible defender. Just because they don't know how we play the zone and what each persons job is doesn't make what they say so. But I'm not searching for every quote.

You make it sound like Cooney is viewed as Steph Curry throughout the coaching community when he has never been an honorable mention all conference player once and has played ~35+ minutes for 3 years. JB praised him yesterday for playing hard which I don't think anyone on here questions. He said he was a very good defender and said he's an above average 3 pt shooter at 36%, which my guess is he misspoke because over 70 teams in the country shoot higher than 36%.

How good do you think Trevor Cooney is relative to our guards from the past say 8-10 seasons?

Edit: I ask the above to try and gain a further understanding of your perspective. If you think he is a good player because he plays hard, does what the coaches say, and is a leader then that helps your posts make more sense. I'm curious how you view him relative to guards that have played meaningful minutes for us the past 8-10 years.

 

[rrlbees]

"But I'm not searching for every quote." how about searching for even one all conference honorable mention. cuz i looked and can't find one. listen i hope the kid shoots 65% deep for the remainder of the season. i truly truly do. it's our only chance. but please don't put him in the same "club" as those other guards and build him up to be something he never was. (ps. just for comparison gerry was selected all BE freshman team and ncaa all tourney team in 2003. 2nd team BE in '04 and 1st team in 2005 and 06. the coaches vote in the polls.)

Which club did I put him in? I've never even mentioned another play so you must have me confused with someone else.

 

[rrlbees]

You make it sound like Cooney is viewed as Steph Curry throughout the coaching community when he has never been an honorable mention all conference player once and has played ~35+ minutes for 3 years. JB praised him yesterday for playing hard which I don't think anyone on here questions. He said he was a very good defender and said he's an above average 3 pt shooter at 36%, which my guess is he misspoke because over 70 teams in the country shoot higher than 36%. How good do you think Trevor Cooney is relative to our guards from the past say 8-10 seasons? Edit: I ask the above to try and gain a further understanding of your perspective. If you think he is a good player because he plays hard, does what the coaches say, and is a leader then that helps your posts make more sense. I'm curious how you view him relative to guards that have played meaningful minutes for us the past 8-10 years.

Show me where I make him sound like a Steph Curry. Some of you are now either making things up or seeing what you want when reading something.

 

[br801]

Somehow this thread is morphing into the Spanish Inquisition. Saturday can't get here fast enough.

 

[Ward]

Show me where I make him sound like a Steph Curry. Some of you are now either making things up or seeing what you want when reading something.

That's the third time you've avoided answering my question on where you think Cooney stacks up relative to our guards who have played meaningful minutes the past 8-10 seasons, although that kinda gives me my answer.

 

[NineOneSeven]

That's the third time you've avoided answering my question on where you think Cooney stacks up relative to our guards who have played meaningful minutes the past 8-10 seasons, although that kinda gives me my answer.

If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a question

 

[rrlbees]

That's the third time you've avoided answering my question on where you think Cooney stacks up relative to our guards who have played meaningful minutes the past 8-10 seasons, although that kinda gives me my answer.

I'll get back to you after I look back at our rosters. But that question has zero to do with anything I said. Just moving the goal posts.

 

[rrlbees]

If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a question

Mature

 

[CorduroyG]

does anyone know if cooney has made a shot in his career in the last minute of a game or in overtime to tie or give us a lead? i honestly cant think of 1. i was gonna say last 30 seconds but ill give him some more leeway.

 

[CorduroyG]

check out 1:02, cooney had a post game in hs! that was a sweet move, dare i say kobesque

 

[tbonezone]

gee ...thanks patches.

 

[Knicks411]

does anyone know if cooney has made a shot in his career in the last minute of a game or in overtime to tie or give us a lead? i honestly cant think of 1. i was gonna say last 30 seconds but ill give him some more leeway.

That might be a pretty high standard? How many of those shots have we made as a team period in his 3 years?

Anyway, did he maybe make one in the Duke game a few years ago? he was on fire that one if i remember

 

[djcon57]

That's the third time you've avoided answering my question on where you think Cooney stacks up relative to our guards who have played meaningful minutes the past 8-10 seasons, although that kinda gives me my answer.

Was curious so I went back 10 years:

The no-brainers, imo:
Josh Wright: Cooney better
Joseph: Cooney better
and
Jonny: Jonny better
MCW: MCW better
Waiters: Waiters better
Ennis: Ennis better
Devo: Devo better


The close ones would be:
Andy - Definitely his SR year was better, but overall, probably close
Scoop - I'd go Scoop
Triche - This is pretty close. I'd give to Triche
G - I'd go G.

 

[Ward]

I'll get back to you after I look back at our rosters. But that question has zero to do with anything I said. Just moving the goal posts.

Literally asked that question in my very first reply to you on this thread...

I'll list some guards below to save you some time from 05-06-present:

GMac
Devo
Rautins
Josh Wright
Flynn
Scoop
Triche
Dion
MCW
Ennis
Patterson
Kaleb