there is no way that SS should be fired after

[PhatOrange]

Let's say 3-9 again but the offense shows life and the defense gets steamrolled ?

I'm really worried about the defense because we lost I think 7 guys.

Crume, welsh, Robinson, lynch, DDavis, Kelly, and reddish. That's some talent. Fingers crossed we reload there and not rebuild. Secondary is huge concern.

 

[Alsacs]

I guarantee you that Saban inherited more talent than SS did. Marrone won some games in a bad Big East conference and did it mostly with grob recruits.

Saban took over a program which was hit with NCAA sanctions due to violations by George Perles. Saban lost 9 scholarships while at MSU due to this. He had to work hard to keep Michigan State afloat. He had way more adversity than SS inherited. SS had a decent program he had no QB but he wasn't in rebuild stage.

 

[jekelish]

Let's say 3-9 again but the offense shows life and the defense gets steamrolled ?

I'm really worried about the defense because we lost I think 7 guys.

Crume, welsh, Robinson, lynch, DDavis, Kelly, and reddish. That's some talent. Fingers crossed we reload there and not rebuild. Secondary is huge concern.

The secondary has me beyond nervous.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Stanford's admissions makes it very tough to get a quick fix done. SU doesn't have any academic restrictions for football admissions, other than NCAA eligibility.

 

[Scooch]

everyone is so scared of being wrong about canning a coach but all those teams that held on to a coach too long are so forgettable there are a million bad teams in college football, who can remember all the teams that should've fired a guy last year i'm with go, he and lester have one shot to fix the offense.

Yeah, people love to use examples of the guys who started slowly (relatively speaking) and then had huge success. But in the vast majority of cases the guys who are kinda "meh" in year 1, 2 and 3 and still kinda "meh" in years 4, 5 and 6.

There's no right answer on February 18th, obviously. But SS ain't owed a 4th year. If the team sucks and he's fired I'll rip my cap if he resurfaces someplace and has raging success.

 

[anomander]

Stanford was almost a Grobian level disaster. What Shafer inherited, wasn't. That's why I'm a little confused about the it's year 3 stuff. He didn't take over a dumpster fire. This wasn't a rebuild. He was the HC last year of a program that he had been an integral part of for six seasons, a major recruiter for, a defense with an average ranking of 36th over those six years, a prior four year record of 28-23 with three bowl wins. What happened last year was ridiculous.

I'm also confused since I thought the reason or hiring Shafer was because we wanted to keep building upon what Marrone had started. We weren't in total rebuild mode like Stanford was when Hardbaugh took over. It seems to me that we are going the wrong way.

 

[dasher]

Saban took over a program which was hit with NCAA sanctions due to violations by George Perles. Saban lost 9 scholarships while at MSU due to this. He had to work hard to keep Michigan State afloat. He had way more adversity than SS inherited. SS had a decent program he had no QB but he wasn't in rebuild stage.

MSU had way more talent than Syracuse had. Not even in the same Universe. We don't have talent. The NFL draft tells you that. The talent we had when we were good shows you that. It isn't just qb. We couldn't get a yard three times against Nova.

 

[TheCusian]

I'm also confused since I thought the reason or hiring Shafer was because we wanted to keep building upon what Marrone had started. We weren't in total rebuild mode like Stanford was when Hardbaugh took over. It seems to me that we are going the wrong way.

He did keep the defense where it was. Marrone took the OC and the QB and OL left for the NFL.

They had to start over on O and it's killed us.

 

[GoSU96]

He did keep the defense where it was. Marrone took the OC and the QB and OL left for the NFL.

They had to start over on O and it's killed us.

They didn't have to start over.

Good lord.

 

[Bayside44]

They didn't have to start over.

Good lord.

Not like there was coaching continuity on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[Chip]

Not like there was coaching continuity on the offensive side of the ball.

Yeah, I'm surprised that 2013 wasn't more of an end to end tank job on offense (certainly had its moments of terribleness in the middle). It's hard for a lot of teams to lose an NFL QB, NFL OT, one of the most productive WRs in school history, and a very good college #2 WR. It's especially hard at Syracuse, where we don't reload, at least not in modern times. Then add in that pretty much every offensive mind was pulled 2 hours westward.

Having said that, the year 1 to year 2 problems on offense of the Shafer regime are more concerning. I'd love to chalk it all up to injuries, but that's not what leads to changing offensive coordinators midseason.

I think it's way to much to expect of Lester, with his limited offensive coordinator experience in major college football, to get us to over 400 yards per game, 27 points per game in just one season. But that's at least where we'll need to be to get back to a bowl game. And those #'s are average at best. 66 teams averaged 400 yards last year. 79 teams averaged better than 27 points.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Let's say 3-9 again but the offense shows life and the defense gets steamrolled ?

How much life we talkin' here?

 

[Timonen]

I knew that when I posted it. But to fire a coach in his 3rd year would make us a national joke. SS made mistakes last year but I thought his first year was good.

Eh, I don't think it would be a big deal if they fired him. He got the job in large part for continuity and to build on successes. It's reaching to give him the leeway like he was starting over. I think that lowers the threshold from 4-5 to 3-4 years.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think it's way to much to expect of Lester, with his limited offensive coordinator experience in major college football, to get us to over 400 yards per game, 27 points per game in just one season. But that's at least where we'll need to be to get back to a bowl game. And those #'s are average at best. 66 teams averaged 400 yards last year. 79 teams averaged better than 27 points.

So depressing. Really glad we beat Louisville tonight.

 

[djorange1989]

I think Shafer did inherit a rebuild. Sorry but as mediocre a power conference as the ACC is, it still kicks the Big East's a**. He inherited some decent talent on defense and very little on offense. McDonald was a crappy OC on top of it along with the brutal pile of injuries. I think getting 7 wins his first year was a great job on his part. Last year was a disaster but everything went wrong that could go wrong. I expect a return to a bowl this year, that is a reasonable expectation.

 

[TheCusian]

They didn't have to start over. Good lord.

New QB, new OC, new WR coach, new starting WR's... What do you call that?

 

[CuseOnly]

My question would be, if they do fire him, who do they get as coach?

Why fire him if you can't get someone "better" with previous winning HC experience?

If you are going to fire Shafer and go with another unproven assistant or coordinator, then I would most definitely not be on board or agree at all with that. If that is the case, then keep him and the continuity with recruiting and give him more time to right the ship.

Unless of course we go 2-10, then I don't think Gross has a choice.

 

[elimunelson]

My question would be, if they do fire him, who do they get as coach?

Why fire him if you can't get someone "better" with previous winning HC experience?

If you are going to fire Shafer and go with another unproven assistant or coordinator, then I would most definitely not be on board or agree at all with that. If that is the case, then keep him and the continuity with recruiting and give him more time to right the ship.

Unless of course we go 2-10, then I don't think Gross has a choice.

it won't be Gross's choice first off but I agree with your first point. If SS blows this year the university has to start thinking about selling their soul for a hired gun which is something the University has never done football wise. Tressel, Kiffin some guy who can come in and change the situation dynamically.

 

[Millhouse]

shafer did have to start over on offense. west was underrated but west does not an offense make

but if you're lucky enough to get promoted to a caliber of job that no one else would hire you for, you don't get the luxury of having start over expectations.

the same should go for lester too. if you haven't proven anything, you shouldn't get as long a leash

 

[Finwad32]

shafer did have to start over on offense. west was underrated but west does not an offense make

but if you're lucky enough to get promoted to a caliber of job that no one else would hire you for, you don't get the luxury of having start over expectations.

the same should go for lester too. if you haven't proven anything, you shouldn't get as long a leash

I agree, a rebuild or not, expectations were greater for him. Not just because he was promoted from within, and it was his first gig that might not have been afforded to him elsewhere, but because the football we saw the2nd half of Marrone's last season was probably the best football we'd seen out of Syracuse this century. Shafer had a bowl Win in year one, and that set a precedent as well.

The thing about Lester is this, it takes time for an offense to take hold. Especially when the guys on the roster are new to the concepts, if the offense does in fact change significantly. One good thing is terminology and things like that should be pretty easy to maintain. I agree, because of his lack of experience, he shouldn't be given an extremely long leash. I think two years is fair to see what he can do with the offense. Transition of players or not, the system's been in place at that point and we should have a pretty good idea where it's headed.

 

[GoSU96]

New QB, new OC, new WR coach, new starting WR's... What do you call that?

Starting over is picking up a team that was sub 100 for four years straight. Not a team that was 17th and returned 3/5ths of the starting OL, with experienced backups, starting TE, one WR with experienced backups, the entire backfield.

And how does that explain why they were worse the following year?

 

[Millhouse]

Starting over is picking up a team that was sub 100 for four years straight. Not a team that was 17th and returned 3/5ths of the starting OL, with experienced backups, starting TE, one WR with experienced backups, the entire backfield.

And how does that explain why they were worse the following year?

they were one game worse

 

[elimunelson]

Starting over is picking up a team that was sub 100 for four years straight. Not a team that was 17th and returned 3/5ths of the starting OL, with experienced backups, starting TE, one WR with experienced backups, the entire backfield.

And how does that explain why they were worse the following year?

Isn't a comparison (albeit much much much lower expectations) of P taking over for Dick Mac post Donnie Mac? He took over a very good team, had a relatively new QB and took off. He didn't take over something and then puke all over it and see it go from an 8 win team to a 4 win team. He took it to a 10 win team.

SS needs to win or he's gone. The vicious cycle of excuse making on the hill towards football has to end. The recruiting excuse i'd buy if we had a top 25 recruiting class. If we're playing grab *ss about a 44th ranked recruiting class and saying that gets him another year then this is not fixable.

 

[GoSU96]

they were one game worse

"The following year" is this last season for Shafer, I was referencing year 2, 2014 season.

 

[dasher]

"The following year" is this last season for Shafer, I was referencing year 2, 2014 season.

The last head coach didn't leave a decent qb on the roster. That is why we had to go get Allen.