This Class and the Staff's Recruiting Track Record.....

[newmexicuse]

Lot's of criticism of this class on this board in terms of taking Patterson and the overall lack of 4 & 5 star commitments.

Sure, I too wish we had received commitments from all 4 & 5 star guys, but that isn't the way the recruiting world goes. I like this class & if we get our stud PF, then we will have a Top 5ish class. Some people on this forum are like pigs to the trough because we are on an overall recruiting roll.

Reasons I like this class:

1. Rating are just that - ratings. Much of it in the eyes of the beholder. I saw the Buss vids - I simply cannot believe that there are 30 or so two guards better than this kid. I am not sure why he is rated relatively low especially because he supposedly can also play very good D, which one does not see in highlights. A kid like BJ, may well be like MCW, who was also young when he committed & exploded upward to be a Top 25 type of kid by the time he arrived.

2. The staff has a great track record in identifying talent. The last recruit who they took who I definitely did not want was the Cat Rescuer. That was quite a few classes ago. Since then, the almost everybody they took has contributed to a greater or lesser degree except for Mookie. The staff took non 100 rated kids AO and Andy who turned out to be stars. Brandon was also not a Top 100 kid who has started every game & may well have his time to shine this season. Others such as BMK and the Belgim kid have made solid contributions. BMK is mostly criticized on the O end. he may well show big improvement this season as his injured hand has it's strength return.

3. This class has great balance already - if we can add the stud PF then we have added a player at every position.

4. This class probably does not have any one & dones, so it will add to the long term continuity of the program.

5. We only had one really huge hole in terms of need and that hole was filled with a five star kid. It is very hard to get the 4 & 5 star guys if you can't show them likely PT.

6. Our class is already ranked # 15, and it is not yet done for those who hang their hats on rankings.

7. We are involved with some serious studs in the next class - I do not think this class will scare any of them off.

8. Most importantly, I get the sense that each of these kids really wanted to come to the Cuse and be an Orange, we were not an 11th hour least of the evils choice for any of them.

 

[cusetown1]

I hope they wanted to play basketball also and not just be an orange.

 

[RF2044]

Lot's of criticism of this class on this board in terms of taking Patterson

I don't think the above statement is accurate at all. I just think that most people recognize that with Cooney / Gbinije in the fold next year both as sophomores, that building depth at PG was a more important roster need than adding another SG. The goal is to improve backcourt depth so that we aren't faced with the same situation next season and moving forward that we are this year.

A lot hinges on whether MCW returns next year or not. If he does, then the depth is more than adequate. Lots of depth and flexibility. For example, we could start MCW and Gbinije, or MCW and Cooney, or MCW with Ennis sliding him off the ball.

But if MCW doesn't come back, then Ennis starts day 1 and there isn't any natural player on the roster to spell him at the point. Meanwhile, we'll have a logjam of quality SGs [Gbinije, Cooney, Patterson].

 

[HouseOfCuse]

I like this class. I did perfer Jordan to Patterson. As stated plenty of times he seems to be the better ball handler and passer. The more videos I watch of Patterson though I'm impressed with his passing and his handle looks better than I thought it would be. I like the fact that he wants to play defense and is aggressive. I loved the article wear it talks about how he went to the local park to play when he was younger and would come back with bruises and bloody but kept going back. Guy has taken some beatings but keeps playing.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Several times a year we're bound to have some-
"We're lacking, and/or have a logjam at the PG/SG/SF/PF/C position!
What the hell is JB doing?"...posts.
And, every year...miraculously, inexplicably, it seems to work itself out.
Go figure. :blah:

 

[bozophobe]

Several times a year we're bound to have some-
"We're lacking, and/or have a logjam at the PG/SG/SF/PF/C position!
What the hell is JB doing?"...posts.
And, every year...miraculously, inexplicably, it seems to work itself out.
Go figure. :blah:

Yeah, but you're dangerously close to invalidating the entire point of this website's existence.

 

[Francis03]

I don't think the above statement is accurate at all. I just think that most people recognize that with Cooney / Gbinije in the fold next year both as sophomores, that building depth at PG was a more important roster need than adding another SG. The goal is to improve backcourt depth so that we aren't faced with the same situation next season and moving forward that we are this year.

A lot hinges on whether MCW returns next year or not. If he does, then the depth is more than adequate. Lots of depth and flexibility. For example, we could start MCW and Gbinije, or MCW and Cooney, or MCW with Ennis sliding him off the ball.

But if MCW doesn't come back, then Ennis starts day 1 and there isn't any natural player on the roster to spell him at the point. Meanwhile, we'll have a logjam of quality SGs [Gbinije, Cooney, Patterson].

Agree with all of this. I don't think most are knocking Patterson the player because he is very solid. It's that most feel MCW is a goner after this season and are worried who helps out Ennis if that's the case? Like I said in another thread, the staff has watched Patterson a lot over the past month and know more about what he can offer than any of us. What I like is that he seems to be a hard worker and who knows maybe by time he hits campus next season he could pinch in at point.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Yeah, but you're dangerously close to invalidating the entire point of this website's existence.

Touche'.

 

[pfister1]

Agree with all of this. I don't think most are knocking Patterson the player because he is very solid. It's that most feel MCW is a goner after this season and are worried who helps out Ennis if that's the case? Like I said in another thread, the staff has watched Patterson a lot over the past month and know more about what he can offer than any of us. What I like is that he seems to be a hard worker and who knows maybe by time he hits campus next season he could pinch in at point.

I agree, If we didn't have Gbinije and Cooney already I would be ecstatic about the Patterson signing. With them in the fold I am just wondering whether we are going to have a minutes problem. I am not convinced that I want to see a lot of Gbinije at the SF, because I think he may be a little small. The Patterson signing, assuming all three of Gbinije, Cooney and Patterson will be getting minutes next year, could push Gbinije almost exclusively to the SF position.

 

[Francis03]

I agree, If we didn't have Gbinije and Cooney already I would be ecstatic about the Patterson signing. With them in the fold I am just wondering whether we are going to have a minutes problem. I am not convinced that I want to see a lot of Gbinije at the SF, because I think he may be a little small. The Patterson signing, assuming all three of Gbinije, Cooney and Patterson will be getting minutes next year, could push Gbinije almost exclusively to the SF position.

If Patterson ever develops some PG skills and you put him and Mike G up top WOWZERS!

 

[cusetown1]

If Patterson ever develops some PG skills and you put him and Mike G up top WOWZERS!

Rothstein, is that you?

 

[jordoo]

I get excited every time we get a commit because of the staffs recruiting track record and its ability to develop players over the course of their careers.Very few college players have fully developed games when they start their careers.

James was dribbling, passing and creating offense today. I used to want to close my eyes when he had to do anything with the ball other than shot it.

 

[Francis03]

Rothstein, is that you?

"Silent G's n long arms, so much to love in Syracuse ball for the future"

 

[M2MPrinciples]

If Patterson ever develops some PG skills and you put him and Mike G up top WOWZERS!

Right. I think some on here are overestimating the importance. We're talking about a role that, barring an Ennis injury, involves about 10 minutes a game of playing point, and while I absolutely love what MCW brings to the table, it's too early to draw conclusions about him leaving. Yes, it'd be nice for depth and peace of mind to have a true PG to back Ennis up, but is it really that necessary?

If Devendorf could play a little point in 2008-09 without embarrassing himself, I don't see why Patterson or one of the other SG's can't in '13-14 if worst comes to worst.

 

[arbitragegls]

but, but...no wait...anyone look to see what MCW was ranked in his class...he was a 2Guard--shooting guard...not a PG...so I am not too worried about Buss being able to handle the PG position as a combo...

 

[ForeverOrange]

I think recruiting is doing just fine, and the Irony for those who don't believe in stars, is that, since we have been having these top 25 classes, we have been having a lot of success on the court, seems to be at least SOME validation to the stars.

 

[RF2044]

but, but...no wait...anyone look to see what MCW was ranked in his class...he was a 2Guard--shooting guard...not a PG...so I am not too worried about Buss being able to handle the PG position as a combo...

Right. Because what MCW was mis-classified in his Scout profile from three years ago will have a lot to do with whether Patterson can play PG or not.

Maybe you ought to take a look at some of the analysis of Buss's game, and reformulate your opinion.

 

[arbitragegls]

Right. Because what MCW was mis-classified in his Scout profile from three years ago will have a lot to do with whether Patterson can play PG or not.

Maybe you ought to take a look at some of the analysis of Buss's game, and reformulate your opinion.

Perhaps doing some research would reveal that MCW on Scout and Rivals and in his own words he was a shooting guard...sorry, but I will have a Jack and Coke on you!
Oh, so etc were wrong too...maybe you should pay more attention to the world of recruiting:

Rivals:
Shooting guard
Hamilton (RI) St Andrews
AAU: BABC
Ht: 6-foot-4
Wt: 175 lbs
Class: 2011 (High School)
...and in MCW's words:
Syracuse guard Michael Carter-Williams answers questions during the... "I played shooting guard and some point guard in high school.

 

[RF2044]

Perhaps doing some research would reveal that MCW on Scout and Rivals and in his own words he was a shooting guard...sorry, but I will have a Jack and Coke on you!
Oh, so ********** etc were wrong too...maybe you should pay more attention to the world of recruiting:

Rivals:
Shooting guard
Hamilton (RI) St Andrews
AAU: BABC
Ht: 6-foot-4
Wt: 175 lbs
Class: 2011 (High School)
...and in MCW's words:
Syracuse guard Michael Carter-Williams answers questions during the... "I played shooting guard and some point guard in high school.

Who gives a F what position Scout classified him as? Or Rivals for that matter? MCW came out of high school with a very strong handle and superlative passing skills. Scoop Jardine was listed as a SG coming out of high school, too, but had the game to make the conversion to play the point.

Patterson has a reported limitation with ball handling. I'd say that will have more of an impact on his ability to prospectively play the point guard position than what some dink from Rivals or Scout projects him position wise or how many stars he has.

Have a jack and cokes on me--I like your optimism, but the rationalization spin is getting pretty thick about Patterson's ability to play point given his current skills set.

 

[Francis03]

Right. Because what MCW was mis-classified in his Scout profile from three years ago will have a lot to do with whether Patterson can play PG or not.

Maybe you ought to take a look at some of the analysis of Buss's game, and reformulate your opinion.

I remember reading after watching him a few times, Evan Daniels said they had a hard time figuring out what MCW true position was going to be. He was relied on heavily to handle the rock and score on his H.S. and AAU teams. MCW was a true definition of an combo coming in, while Patterson projects as strictly a 2G currently. As stated before he's a very hard worker and let's hope that he can develop that skill to spot several minutes at the PG position moving forward.

 

[arbitragegls]

Who gives a F what position Scout classified him as? Or Rivals for that matter? MCW came out of high school with a very strong handle and superlative passing skills. Scoop Jardine was listed as a SG coming out of high school, too, but had the game to make the conversion to play the point.

Patterson has a reported limitation with ball handling. I'd say that will have more of an impact on his ability to prospectively play the point guard position than what some dink from Rivals or Scout projects him position wise or how many stars he has.

Have a jack and cokes on me--I like your optimism, but the rationalization spin is getting pretty thick about Patterson's ability to play point given his current skills set.

Hey man get a life...even MCW considered himself coming out as a 2-guard. I believe that Patterson will too be a combo guard...may be not as good as MCW...but certainly useable...have you seen Patterson recently..his coach says his handle is much better than opined...so relax...he is a good get and might not be as good as MCW at point guard...but will be serviceable...otherwise staff would not have taken him...duh.

 

[arbitragegls]

I remember reading after watching him a few times, Evan Daniels said they had a hard time figuring out what MCW true position was going to be. He was relied on heavily to handle the rock and score on his H.S. and AAU teams. MCW was a true definition of an combo coming in, while Patterson projects as strictly a 2G currently. As stated before he's a very hard worker and let's hope that he can develop that skill to spot several minutes at the PG position moving forward.

Thank you Francis...

 

[RF2044]

Hey man get a life...even MCW considered himself coming out as a 2-guard. I believe that Patterson will too be a combo guard...may be not as good as MCW...but certainly useable...have you seen Patterson recently..his coach says his handle is much better than opined...so relax...he is a good get and might not be as good as MCW at point guard...but will be serviceable...otherwise staff would not have taken him...duh.

"Duh" is right, because there is little evidence to support your subjective belief about him having point guard potential. I think it is safe to say that you haven't paid much attention to the data available about Patterson's strengths / weaknesses. That, or you are selectively choosing to ignore information to validate your position. That's fine, but don't chastise me for basing MY opinion on the objective data available about Patterson's game. I saw the coach's comments in multiple articles, but what else do you expect the kid's coach to say? It is great to hear that this kid is a hard worker, and that he will work hard to expand his game, but that doesn't change the fact that right now his handle is universally described as being a major hole in his game.

I think that the reason the staff took him had nothing to do with him projecting as a backup lead guard, and everything to do with liking him for other reasons. I also haven't seen one person suggest that this kid isn't a good "get." The point you seem intent on trying to make about people not liking this pickup is completely off target, in my opinion. Let's just stop pretending he is something different than he is.

And thank you Francis for pointing out that Patterson projects strictly as a 2G, as opposed to MCW ["MCW was a true definition of an combo coming in, while Patterson projects as strictly a 2G currently."]. The situations really aren't comparable.

 

[arbitragegls]

"Duh" is right, because there is little evidence to support your subjective belief about him having point guard potential. I think it is safe to say that you haven't paid much attention to the data available about Patterson's strengths / weaknesses. That, or you are selectively choosing to ignore information to validate your position. That's fine, but don't chastise me for basing MY opinion on the objective data available about Patterson's game. I saw the coach's comments in multiple articles, but what else do you expect the kid's coach to say? It is great to hear that this kid is a hard worker, and that he will work hard to expand his game, but that doesn't change the fact that right now his handle is universally described as being a major hole in his game.

I think that the reason the staff took him had nothing to do with him projecting as a backup lead guard, and everything to do with liking him for other reasons. I also haven't seen one person suggest that this kid isn't a good "get." The point you seem intent on trying to make about people not liking this pickup is completely off target, in my opinion. Let's just stop pretending he is something different than he is.

And thank you Francis for pointing out that Patterson projects strictly as a 2G, as opposed to MCW ["MCW was a true definition of an combo coming in, while Patterson projects as strictly a 2G currently."]. The situations really aren't comparable.

I presume you are pleased with our newest PF...but watch out he is tall enough to be a center...or like Southy can dribble and play 2-guard...Here is to all 'Cuse...recruiting is rolling...right to a NC.

 

[RF2044]

I presume you are pleased with our newest PF...but watch out he is tall enough to be a center...or like Southy can dribble and play 2-guard...Here is to all 'Cuse...recruiting is rolling...right to a NC.

I hear he has a good handle--maybe by your logic he can be our backup point guard.

We agree about one thing--recruiting is going like GANG BUSTERS!!! McCullough is a huge "get" -- a guy who can really get the ball rolling for the class of 2014.