This has been a tough week for syracusefan.com

[HOFCeluck]

In all seriousness, I havent at any point thought we were going to get Stewart. And the writing shouldve been on the wall for most here the minute he left McQuaid for Indiana.

Oh and BTW...we lost upstate NY kids when Hopkins was an assistant here as well.

 

[dasher]

You don't think he has relationships with coaches and the programs on the east coast?

It will not turn out to be a successful strategy for a west coast school to depend on east coast kids. Can he be successful with certain kids? Certainly He just was. But as times go on, he will be less so.

 

[Townie72]

No team plays 100% man to man since Bob Knight was coaching.
Coach K switched between man to man and zone against Virginia in the second half and was the reason they shut down UVA. They were confused what Duke was doing so their offense and ball movement was off and
Duke was able to get enough stops to build up a lead and win.

Nobody wants JB to stop running the zone. Mixing in wrinkles during the game would throw the opponent off though. We do nothing different it’s all 100% zone and then if we are down a press to try and force turnovers.
We don’t mix up anything.
Our offense doesn’t change when teams are prepared for what we do.
Again the scouting reports tell the opponent what we do when we had the horses to overcome the fact the opponent even if they knew that is a different story we didn’t need to change when we had that elite talent.
Our horses now aren’t significantly better than Conference opponents these past years.
Wanting some spark of energy that will challenge the status quo isn’t a bad thing.
Nobody can challenge JB on this staff like Hop could. You take any criticism of JB like its blasphemy.

You know why Belichick or K or Poppvich or any elite coach stays elite they adapt and aren’t going to do things the same way all the team.
JB is 74 years old. He is going to be he coach for at most 3 more years. It’s going to get worse when he leaves just because his shadow is impossible to replace. However we can be good with the next coach. The fact is our program is not what it was. If you want to say grade the program on a curve fine you do that. I won’t. JB’s stubbornness is a problem just as much as it probably helps him in some scenarios.
BTW ask what I mean when I say energy next time instead of assuming .
I am talking about expanding the recruiting targets and not going for a smaller amount of talent. We need energy in recruiting and that is where 74 years old catches up to a coach.

Also you need a above offense to win a NC title.
Nobody outside of UConn 2011 and 2014 had a garbage offense and both of those offenses scored more easily than we have since 2012.

Alsacs: No team plays 100% man to man since Bob Knight was coaching.
Townie: I can’t tell the difference between 100% M2M and 95% M2M

Alsacs: Mixing in wrinkles during the game would throw the opponent off though.
Townie: I assume by “wrinkles” you mean M2M. This to me is one of the worst arguments I read on this board. To switch to a defense we rarely play and that the opponent sees every game and use themselves as some sort of surprise tactic that would discombobulate seems to me, border line crazy.

Alsacs: Use the press
Townie; We do (e.g. UVA) right up until the opponent has a couple of easy baskets. Nothing, absolutely nothing is worse than a press that the opponent solves easily.

Alsacs: Our horses now aren’t significantly better than Conference opponents these past years.
Townie: Yup. Welcome to the ACC. JB warned about this when the University was considering this football-driven decision.

Alsacs: Wanting some spark of energy that will challenge the status quo isn’t a bad thing.
Townie: This is a platitude.

Alsacs: Nobody can challenge JB on this staff like Hop could. You take any criticism of JB like its blasphemy.
Townie: If a UConn fan or a fan of another ACC school were to come on here and say the same stuff, what would your reaction be?

Alsacs: It’s going to get worse when he leaves just because his shadow is impossible to replace.
Townie: If it gets worse, its because we brought in the wrong guy or because the new guy attempts a complete re-engineering of the system and the team.

Alsacs: However we can be good with the next coach.
Townie: Yeah. Maybe. If I were to bet, it's be that we'll go into a down period.

Alsacs: The fact is our program is not what it was. If you want to say grade the program on a curve fine you do that. I won’t.
Townie: The college basketball scenario has changesd. Outside of the top teams there are more good teams.

Alsacs: JB’s stubbornness is a problem just as much as it probably helps him in some scenarios
Townie: Consistency and commitment to a coherent strategy is not “stubbornness.

 

[supp]

Alsacs: No team plays 100% man to man since Bob Knight was coaching.
Townie: I can’t tell the difference between 100% M2M and 95% M2M

Alsacs: Mixing in wrinkles during the game would throw the opponent off though.
Townie: I assume by “wrinkles” you mean M2M. This to me is one of the worst arguments I read on this board. To switch to a defense we rarely play and that the opponent sees every game and use themselves as some sort of surprise tactic that would discombobulate seems to me, border line crazy.

Alsacs: Use the press
Townie; We do (e.g. UVA) right up until the opponent has a couple of easy baskets. Nothing, absolutely nothing is worse than a press that the opponent solves easily.

Alsacs: Our horses now aren’t significantly better than Conference opponents these past years.
Townie: Yup. Welcome to the ACC. JB warned about this when the University was considering this football-driven decision.

Alsacs: Wanting some spark of energy that will challenge the status quo isn’t a bad thing.
Townie: This is a platitude.

Alsacs: Nobody can challenge JB on this staff like Hop could. You take any criticism of JB like its blasphemy.
Townie: If a UConn fan or a fan of another ACC school were to come on here and say the same stuff, what would your reaction be?

Alsacs: It’s going to get worse when he leaves just because his shadow is impossible to replace.
Townie: If it gets worse, its because we brought in the wrong guy or because the new guy attempts a complete re-engineering of the system and the team.

Alsacs: However we can be good with the next coach.
Townie: Yeah. Maybe. If I were to bet, it's be that we'll go into a down period.

Alsacs: The fact is our program is not what it was. If you want to say grade the program on a curve fine you do that. I won’t.
Townie: The college basketball scenario has changesd. Outside of the top teams there are more good teams.

Alsacs: JB’s stubbornness is a problem just as much as it probably helps him in some scenarios
Townie: Consistency and commitment to a coherent strategy is not “stubbornness.

How do you put up with us? All this irredeemable stupidity, right?

 

[Townie72]

You don't think he has relationships with coaches and the programs on the east coast?

Relationships with coaches is no longer anywhere near as important as it once was in the world of college recruiting for top tier recruits. It's more relic of the 1960's and 70's. High school caoches were invaluable before the Internet. Now there are never hidden gems. Every school is aware of everybody. The colleges see these kids in tournaments, showcases and camps, far away from the high school coach.

AAU coaches are now a factor. But the parents are now heavily involved and recognize that both the high school and AAU coaches have their own set of objectives and they aren't always consistent with the prospect's.

Besides, almost every parent I have ever talked to is at some level pissed off at the high school coach and thinks he's an idiot. Afterall, he failed to have a system or a substitution pattern that highlighted the true athletic brilliance of their son.

 

[Townie72]

How do you put up with us? All this irredeemable stupidity, right?

I don't have any problem with argument. Some shrink from it.

Some like to come here, post whatever they want and expect no push-back and are even offended when they get it.

I don't understand that concept. Is this the result of "juice boxes and trophies for everybody"?

 

[NineOneSeven]

I don't have any problem with argument. Some shrink from it.

Some like to come here, post whatever they want and expect no push-back and are even offended when they get it.

I don't understand that concept. Is this the result of "juice boxes and trophies for everybody"?

What kind of juice?

 

[cliftonparksufan]

What kind of juice?

Should everyone agree on Orange Juice? Though people would argue what brand and what level of pulp.

 

[tbonezone]

i do hope you've enjoyed your stay here with us at the overlook hotel

"can't live with them..."

 

[HOFCeluck]

Should everyone agree on Orange Juice? Though people would argue what brand and what level of pulp.

Orange Juice is overrated. Unless it’s mixed with vodka, aka a Orange Vod-juice-ka.

 

[Townie72]

Since the Moms bought it, it's probably apple juice. They picked it out after scanning the ingredients of the various juices before settling on the one with the least amount of sugar.

In my day, parents weren't involved in sports. We played all day and when our mouths were so dry we couldn't spit or swallow, we'd take a break and drink water from of a rubber garden hose attached to the side of someone's house. The water had a vaguely chemical taste to it and if you have ever done this you'll recall it.

There were no adults screaming encouragement from the sidelines, no refs, no juice boxes, no sections of oranges, no trophies, no bandages for abrasions or cuts, no ice to put on bumps or sprains, no rides to and from the fields. We handled disputes of the "I tagged you" and "No, you didn't" variety ourselves.

We showed up at home with a slight mouse under one eye, filthy dirty with grass-stains on the knees of our jeans. Nobody said anything as long as you were on time for the meal and washed your hands before sitting down. The parents had their world and we had ours.

The good old days!

 

[sdcuseguy]

Yeah, more indicative of the state of our recruiting... the fact that we were listed as a courtesy only...

Listing as a courtesy is actually a negative, getting people's hopes up for no reason.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Since the Moms bought it, it's probably apple juice. They picked it out after scanning the ingredients of the various juices before settling on the one with the least amount of sugar.

In my day, parents weren't involved in sports. We played all day and when our mouths were so dry we couldn't spit, we'd take a break and drink water out of a rubber garden hose attached to someone's house. It's had a vaguely chemical taste to it..

No adults, no refs, no juice boxes, no sections of oranges, no trophies, no bandages for abrasions or cuts, no ice to put on bumps or sprains, no rides to and from the fields.

We showed up at home with a slight mouse under one eye, filthy dirty with grass-stains on the knees of our jeans. Nobody said anything as long as you were on time for the meal and washed your hands before sitting down.

The good old days!

I used to ride my bike everywhere and most of the time I had my mitt hung over the handlebars.

 

[CousCuse]

Since the Moms bought it, it's probably apple juice. They picked it out after scanning the ingredients of the various juices before settling on the one with the least amount of sugar.

In my day, parents weren't involved in sports. We played all day and when our mouths were so dry we couldn't spit, we'd take a break and drink water out of a rubber garden hose attached to someone's house. It's had a vaguely chemical taste to it..

No adults, no refs, no juice boxes, no sections of oranges, no trophies, no bandages for abrasions or cuts, no ice to put on bumps or sprains, no rides to and from the fields.

We showed up at home with a slight mouse under one eye, filthy dirty with grass-stains on the knees of our jeans. Nobody said anything as long as you were on time for the meal and washed your hands before sitting down.

The good old days!

You got me right in the heart with that vignette Townie.

 

[SUGIANT]

It all started with the maintenance on Saturday. Then the IS news followed by so many sky is falling posts. We get it. Hop is cleaning JAB's pocket. Good for him but I never realized how many people want JAB to step down. People-you might not like the results under the next regime.

I really hope we win Thursday. Otherwise the entire board will need a two day maintenance timeout.

I’m not on board with all the JB hysteria, but it’s been going on for years. Y’all might not like what you wish for. At least he hasn’t been “Pasqulonied”!

 

[Alsacs]

What kind of juice?

This describes what I thought of after my last post.

 

[kingtidge]

Listing as a courtesy is actually a negative, getting people's hopes up for no reason.

My point exactly...

 

[FrancoPizza]

we hardly even lost him. He was going to Duke. He was going to Michigan State. He was going to Washington. You know where he was never "going" - Syracuse.

Now you’re just trying to make the SU staff look incompetent.

 

[CusefanATL]

Now you’re just trying to make the SU staff look incompetent.

ha, not really.

he was just a long shot from basically day 1.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Since the Moms bought it, it's probably apple juice. They picked it out after scanning the ingredients of the various juices before settling on the one with the least amount of sugar.

In my day, parents weren't involved in sports. We played all day and when our mouths were so dry we couldn't spit, we'd take a break and drink water out of a rubber garden hose attached to someone's house. It's had a vaguely chemical taste to it..

No adults, no refs, no juice boxes, no sections of oranges, no trophies, no bandages for abrasions or cuts, no ice to put on bumps or sprains, no rides to and from the fields.

We showed up at home with a slight mouse under one eye, filthy dirty with grass-stains on the knees of our jeans. Nobody said anything as long as you were on time for the meal and washed your hands before sitting down.

The good old days!

I'm 28 and I did all of this stuff as a kid, too. We aren't so different (yes we are).

 

[Townie72]

I'm 28 and I did all of this stuff as a kid, too. We aren't so different (yes we are).

There's a big difference between doing what I said some of the time and all of the time.

That someone 28 was never signed up for youth soccer, youth basketball and youth baseball at all seems highly implausible. I'll bet you were sucking those juice boxes dry after being driven to the games and practices in that minivan.

 

[Alsacs]

I'm 28 and I did all of this stuff as a kid, too. We aren't so different (yes we are).

Yeah I feel like colleges have become giant babysitting grounds since I graduated that is only about a decade ago.
It is amazing how much more sensitive kids have become since Twitter/social media in 2008/2009.

It isn't going to change though so I am not offended by it. Townie has the mindset basically we fans should sit back and enjoy it and shut the hell up and not want change.

 

[Townie72]

Yeah I feel like colleges have become giant babysitting grounds since I graduated that is only about a decade ago.
It is amazing how much more sensitive kids have become since Twitter/social media in 2008/2009.

It isn't going to change though so I am not offended by it. Townie has the mindset basically we fans should sit back and enjoy it and shut the hell up and not want change.

Alsacs, you don't have to guess what my mind set is. I'll be glad to tell you.

1. Expectations - I'm more philosophical than I used to be. I'd like SU to win every game, but I recognize that CBB is more competitive than it ever has been and that talent is more widely distributed than it ever has been except for the handful of current top programs. When SU takes the floor, there's a very good chance that our talent level isn't all that different from the opponents. So maybe my lower expectations and lack of a sense of entitlement keeps me from flying off the handle after losses.

2. Faith in JB - I'm not certain of much, but one thing I am sure of is that JB wants to win more than I do, knows a lot more about basketball, in general, and knows the physical and psychological strengths and status of the players better than I do. The recent scattergram posted on here of JB's absolutely superior performance in close games over a long period makes the game management case better than I could.

3. Annoyance at Critics - I get that fans like to discuss games, the state of the program, and they want to have their own opinions. A lot of this is Monday morning quarterbacking and a lot of it is based on what they have been told by TV analysts for decades and now have in their brains as articles of faith. (e.g, If a team continues to make outside shots it will force the other team out of its zone defense because zone defenses aren't good against outside shooting"). We know this fact because Billy Packer said it no less than 1000 times. A lot of fans want to win but they also want to be entertained. "More run and gun", they say, "Where's Stevie Thompson when we need him".

What I have noticed is how mad the critics get when someone (like me) challenges them. When I read, "You're against change" or "JB has to go" and I make a case against that, I rarely get an argument back. What I get it is "You always take JB's side and he's not infallible and I'm entitled to my opinion because I have been an SU fan for a long time."

If UConn fans or Georgetown fans came on here and said the stuff some of our "fans" did, they'd be shouted down and run off.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

1. Expectations - I'm more philosophical than I used to be. I'd like SU to win every game, but I recognize that CBB is more competitive than it ever has been and that talent is more widely distributed than it ever has been except for the handful of current top programs. When SU takes the floor, there's a very good chance that our talent level isn't all that different from the opponents. So maybe my lower expectations and lack of a sense of entitlement keeps me from flying off the handle after losses.

This is really what it all boils down to.

There is, IMHO, a significant percentage of posters on this board who think that:

We should be a top ____ seed in the NCAA tourney every year
We should finish in the top ____ in the ACC every year.
We should have top _____ ranked recruiting classes every year.
And, of course, once in the tournament, an early exit is not acceptable.

I'll let someone else fill in the blanks as they will be different for different posters and some posters will emphasize some criteria more than others.

The common denominator, however, is that the filled-in-figures would be low enough to define us as one of the truly elite programs.

We've gone through 2 six year stretches where we truly were one of the elite programs: 85-86 to 90-91 and 08-09 to 13-14 (BTW, we've also ended up with sanctions at the conclusion of each of those stretches). For the remaining 31 years, we've had some great seasons, some really good seasons, some good seasons and some not so good seasons. Even our NC came sandwiched between a 6 seed and an NIT appearance.

For those who expect SU hoops to always be a continuation of 08-14, the last four years have simply been unacceptable. And the longer the streak of "mediocrity" persists, the angrier they get (which is why this forum is a whole lot less fun than it used to be).

And they need someone to blame so their wrath is focused primarily at Boeheim but can also be focused on the assistants, the players, the AD, the no longer here coach in waiting etc.

It expresses itself in all different ways: Game has passed him by; no offense; cannot use bench; cannot recruit; only plays zone...but it all comes from the same source: under performance relative to poster level of expectations.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

This is really what it all boils down to.

There is, IMHO, a significant percentage of posters on this board who think that:

We should be a top ____ seed in the NCAA tourney every year
We should finish in the top ____ in the ACC every year.
We should have top _____ ranked recruiting classes every year.
And, of course, once in the tournament, an early exit is not acceptable.

I'll let someone else fill in the blanks as they will be different for different posters and some posters will emphasize some criteria more than others.

The common denominator, however, is that the filled-in-figures would be low enough to define us as one of the truly elite programs.

We've gone through 2 six year stretches where we truly were one of the elite programs: 85-86 to 90-91 and 08-09 to 13-14 (BTW, we've also ended up with sanctions at the conclusion of each of those stretches). For the remaining 31 years, we've had some great seasons, some really good seasons, some good seasons and some not so good seasons. Even our NC came sandwiched between a 6 seed and an NIT appearance.

For those who expect SU hoops to always be a continuation of 08-14, the last four years have simply been unacceptable. And the longer the streak of "mediocrity" persists, the angrier they get (which is why this forum is a whole lot less fun than it used to be).

And they need someone to blame so their wrath is focused primarily at Boeheim but can also be focused on the assistants, the players, the AD, the no longer here coach in waiting etc.

It expresses itself in all different ways: Game has passed him by; no offense; cannot use bench; cannot recruit; only plays zone...but it all comes from the same source: under performance relative to poster level of expectations.

What would your expectations be? I'm not blaming Boeheim, but if he's granted the benefit of the doubt for all negatives because of his tenure and HOF status, shouldn't he be expected to deliver as well?

I'll play your game.

We should be a top _6_ seed in the NCAA tourney every year
We should finish in the top _5_ in the ACC every year.
We should have top _40__ ranked recruiting classes every year.
And, of course, once in the tournament, an early exit is not acceptable.

I don't feel like these are unreasonable.