This has been a tough week for syracusefan.com

[Alsacs]

Oh right you used stats (Hughes’ freshman year) to form the opinion that he could not shoot. Turns out you were wrong about that.

Again please answer the question what player from last year has gotten better? And how?
I am glad Hughes has been solid. He is a good 3rd piece. I didn’t think his shooting would be good. 36% is tremendous for him.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Again please answer what player from last year has gotten better? And how?

Battle is better. Sidibe is too. Chukwu. Marek is a better shooter. Howard is a better shooter, and is not turning the ball over. Seems better to me. Brissett seems to be finishing better.

How? Practice The coaches work with them in practice and on their own.

BTW...development doesn’t happen in one year. It takes time.

Read:

How Syracuse basketball is turning Marek Dolezaj into a shooter

 

[Alsacs]

Battle is better. Sidibe is too. Chukwu. Marek is a better shooter. Howard is a better shooter. Brissett seems to be finishing better.

How? Practice The coaches work with them in practice and on their own.

BTW...development doesn’t happen in one year. It takes time.

Read:

How Syracuse basketball is turning Marek Dolezaj into a shooter

See you are entitled to your opinion. All I will say is I am not going to insult you like you will at me. People in non Orange Glasses would tell you the players you have cited are not better from last year. The players are the same.
The offense has more depth but we still struggle way too much as scoring.

You want to think otherwise that is your opinion. Cusefan0307 is a lot less critical than most his opinion is one I would listen to more than yours.

The program could be burning and you would spin. Dealing with your posts are annoying because it’s personal with you. You fight the poster and just come off like a PR firm.

Think whatever you want. I get plenty wrong. You are wrong as well.
It’s not even fun dealing with your posts like Townie who I think is having fun atleast.

 

[Townie72]

Again please answer what player from last year has gotten better? And how?
I am glad Hughes has been solid. He is a good 3rd piece. I didn’t think his shooting would be good. 36% is tremendous for him.

I'll bite. But we also need to be honest and forthright about what's behind your question.

Pascal in the last few games looks better, but whether this is a momentary blip is TBD.
Everybody else looks pretty much like the same player.

That could be taken by someone who is hellbent on making the case that this is a failure of the coaching staff.

Or it might be that the brilliance of the coaching staff got these players to their maximum level last year and no improvement beyond that is possible.

 

[NateW]

See you are entitled to your opinion. All I will say is I am not going to insult you like you will at me. People in non Orange Glasses would tell you the players you have cited are not better from last year. The players are the same.
The offense has more depth but we still struggle way too much as scoring.

You want to think otherwise that is your opinion. Cusefan0307 is a lot less critical than most his opinion is one I would listen to more than yours.

The program could be burning and you would spin. Dealing with your posts are annoying because it’s personal with you. You fight the poster and just come off like a PR firm.

Think whatever you want. I get plenty wrong. You are wrong as well.
It’s not even fun dealing with your posts like Townie who I think is having fun atleast.

There a few others I could mention but they aren’t as obvious as what I will mention...

Battle’s mid range game looks significantly improved to me from last year to this year. It’s been a huge benefit for his overall game.

I know metrics nerds hate long twos but they count just as much as a layup when they go in.

 

[Alsacs]

I'll bite. But we also need to be honest and forthright about what's behind your question.

Pascal in the last few games looks better, but whether this is a momentary blip is TBD.
Everybody else looks pretty much like the same player.

That could be taken by someone who is hellbent on making the case that this is a failure of the coaching staff.

Or it might be that the brilliance of the coaching staff got these players to their maximum level last year and no improvement beyond that is possible.

Chukwu is not better from last year.
He still has a problem catching the ball on passes, his offensive game is not any different from last year.
I think the kid plays hard, is a good teammate and honestly one of the better clutch FT shooters but he isn’t any different from last year. He will have outstanding games but overall he isn’t better from last year and if you were honest I believe you would admit that for the entire season.

If he is maxed out from last year then adding another big last recruiting class was an obvious need that was ignored.

 

[Alsacs]

There a few others I could mention but they aren’t as obvious as what I will mention...

Battle’s mid range game looks significantly improved to me from last year to this year. It’s been a huge benefit for his overall game.

I know metrics nerds hate long twos but they count just as much as a layup when they go in.

Battle is the same player as last year. Except in the Duke game he had the ball in his hands more and the offense was flowing well when we did that.
His midrange was always solid.
Battle is a good tough shot maker that is why he fits our ISO do it yourself offense. Last year he had to take more shots because he was literally one of 4 guys who could shoot. We added Hughes, Buddy, Carey thus he takes less shots and his 2pt shot numbers are up but his 3pt shot numbers are down.

If we had a big who could be a threat down low it would help Battle be able to drive without being doubled or making a circus shot.

 

[orangecuse]

I would take 13 scholarships lost over 4 years to keep the NC.
The lost NC is one of the harshest penalties ever.

Our lost scholarships wouldn’t have been as big a problem for JB’s rotation if player development was better.
Player development is still a problem.
We need the bigs to get better and stop with low expectations and decent play being treated like excellent play.

Not bringing a center after Sidibe’s injury and Chukwu the only other big was poor roster management. The problem is we still don’t have a big recruit for next year besides a project JBA.
Our roster management and player development needs to get better.

I share your sentiment. The whole loss of scholarships being "crippling" is complete hogwash. It's an excuse, nothing more. When the penalties/loss of scholarships hit, most here (myself included) opined that they were significant and harsher than they should've been considering other schools, similar violations, etc. But, I don't recall anyone at the time saying they were "crippling!" It's so very convenient now to argue this was the proximate cause of the downward trend, but IMO, it's secondary at most.

Bilas himself stated that the penalties were more severe than they should've been, and took his own jabs (and rightfully so) at the NCAA, however, he felt it really shouldn't be that large of a factor considering JB's traditional and historic short bench. JB historically has always gone 7 and at times 8 deep (that # reflecting players that actually play meaningful minutes when the came is still in doubt/on the line, etc.). We still were able to have 10 scholarship players on the roster each year, and had schollies available late in those recruiting cycles, where we were stuck (if not somewhat desperate) splashing into the graduate transfer market.

Additionally, even with those 10 vs. 13 schollies there was still some room to develop players, but JB & his coaches came up short, and in doing so, it was a substantial contributing factor. Moreover, shear misses on the recruiting trail have loomed large as well. Evident by our continued attempts to land a top point guard since Ennis' departure and also at the 5 spot. Having to place MD there more often than not speaks for itself in regards to our huge deficiency there. Honestly, I'm not sure that our two centers would start anywhere in the ACC over the guys those schools have at that position.

 

[NateW]

Battle is the same player as last year. Except in the Duke game he had the ball in his hands more and the offense was flowing well when we did that.
His midrange was always solid.
Battle is a good tough shot maker that is why he fits our ISO do it yourself offense. Last year he had to take more shots because he was literally one of 4 guys who could shoot. We added Hughes, Buddy, Carey thus he takes less shots and his 2pt shot numbers are up but his 3pt shot numbers are down.

If we had a big who could be a threat down low it would help Battle be able to drive without being doubled or making a circus shot.

I realize it doesn’t fit your narrative but his mid range shot is definitively more consistent than last year.

Consistency equals improved. He was not as consistent last year taking the same shots.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

What could be sillier than a set of baseline demands? (euphemistically called "expectations" on here.)

Why draw an artificial and arbitrary line in the sand and say "That's the minimum I can stand." What happens when your :"expectations" or demands aren't met? Is this some sort of ultimatum? What are you gonna do? Go root for someone else?

Every year the world changes. We have changes in the team, sometimes wholesale changes.The competition changes too. I have expectations at the beginning of the season, another set of them after December and yet another as we get into the ACC season. And another set of them if we get into the NCAA tournament .

But the team failing to meet these artificial, arbitrary and sometime unrealistic demands doesn't mean I declare open season on the program for criticism.

I completely understand that since I provide no financial 'incentives' to the athletic department/school, unlike some on here, my expectations are just that. These are just words on the internet that carry no force of law or could ever be construed to be demands.

And I root for my son. I enjoy watching SU hoops and wish they would win all their games. Grousing on this site is actually fun on occasion. Except for when you poke your head up after your anti-JB sentiment radar goes off...

 

[Alsacs]

I share your sentiment. The whole loss of scholarships being "crippling" is complete hogwash. It's an excuse, nothing more. When the penalties/loss of scholarships hit, most here (myself included) opined that they were significant and harsher than they should've been considering other schools, similar violations, etc. But, I don't recall anyone at the time saying they were "crippling!" It's so very convenient to argue this was the proximate cause of the downward trend, but IMO, it's secondary at most.

Bilas himself stated that the penalties were more severe than they should've been, and took his own jabs (and rightfully so) at the NCAA, however, he felt it really shouldn't be that large of a factor considering JB's traditional and historic short bench. JB historically has always gone 7 and at times 8 deep (that # reflecting players that actually play meaningful minutes when the came is still in doubt/on the line, etc.). We still were able to have 10 scholarship players on the roster each year, and had schollies available late in those recruiting cycles, where we were stuck (if not somewhat desperate) splashing into the graduate transfer market.

Additionally, even with those 10 vs. 13 schollies there was still some room to develop players, but JB & his coaches came up short, and in doing so, it was a substantial contributing factor. Moreover, shear misses on the recruiting trail have loomed large as well. Evident by our continued attempts to land a top point guard since Ennis' departure and also at the 5 spot. Having to place MD there more often than not speaks for itself in regards to our huge deficiency there. Honestly, I'm not sure that our two centers would start anywhere in the ACC over the guys those schools have at that position.

Our recruiting and player development are bigger problem than the people in this thread fighting realize.
I think JB’s strength is on the bench in game management and Xs and Os.
The problem with player development and recruiting has hurt our team.
I honestly believe and I said this last year if you gave JB the roster Duke l had he wins the NC or goes further than Duke did.
If JB has the talent he knows how to use it. The problem is we haven’t had the elite talent since 2013.

 

[Alsacs]

I realize it doesn’t fit your narrative but his mid range shot is definitively more consistent than last year.

Consistency equals improved. He was not as consistent last year taking the same shots.

You can think what you want and I will respectfully disagree.
I think his midrange game is just as good as last year.
Having Hughes as a 4th threat on the floor has made him take less bad shots which affects shooting percentages.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I'll bite. But we also need to be honest and forthright about what's behind your question.

Pascal in the last few games looks better, but whether this is a momentary blip is TBD.
Everybody else looks pretty much like the same player.

That could be taken by someone who is hellbent on making the case that this is a failure of the coaching staff.

Or it might be that the brilliance of the coaching staff got these players to their maximum level last year and no improvement beyond that is possible.

PC better than last year? No. Better than his start to this year, surely.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

no, not yet. louisville did not receive the type of program crippling penalties* that syracuse did. while the orange were forced to vacate wins, they also lost a dozen scholarships & had recruiting restricted; Louisville only had to vacate a bunch of wins {including their 2013 title} and pay a big fine. those things hurt your pride but do not hurt your program going forward

*their penalties were assessed for actions prior to the adidas scandal. no ncaa penalties have yet been assessed there.

Good points. Wonder if they had attempted to retain Pitino if they would have faced additional sanctions for the earlier problems.

 

[Townie72]

Chukwu is not better from last year.
He still has a problem catching the ball on passes, his offensive game is not any different from last year.
I think the kid plays hard, is a good teammate and honestly one of the better clutch FT shooters but he isn’t any different from last year. He will have outstanding games but overall he isn’t better from last year and if you were honest I believe you would admit that for the entire season.

If he is maxed out from last year then adding another big last recruiting class was an obvious need that was ignored.

He had 18 rebounds the other night.

Who knows it that was a blip or not.

You seem to feel that recruiting better players is like going to Costco and picking one out of the shelf.

Your charge of anyone ignoring the need for better pivot players is unfair, unsubstantiated and counter-intuitive. You can only recruit players if they exist, you can find them and they want to come.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

See you are entitled to your opinion. All I will say is I am not going to insult you like you will at me. People in non Orange Glasses would tell you the players you have cited are not better from last year. The players are the same.
The offense has more depth but we still struggle way too much as scoring.

You want to think otherwise that is your opinion. Cusefan0307 is a lot less critical than most his opinion is one I would listen to more than yours.

The program could be burning and you would spin. Dealing with your posts are annoying because it’s personal with you. You fight the poster and just come off like a PR firm.

Think whatever you want. I get plenty wrong. You are wrong as well.
It’s not even fun dealing with your posts like Townie who I think is having fun atleast.

I haven’t insulted you. I’m seeing improvement. You think Frank Howard is not better than he was as a freshman? I think that’s hard to argue. Sidibe has shown some post moves he didn’t have last year. Instead of relying solely on stats, watch the games. Battle is certainly better. Chukwu is better than he was when he came in. Marek is becoming a better shooter. Brissett is finishing better. The team seems to be getting better. I think the team will continue to get better.

Now, they may not have improved to YOUR standards, but they are certainly improving. Again, it takes time. This is not PR stuff. I just think you’re way off base, and your constant, repetitive criticism of JB is personal. It’s tired. We are playing better and you’re still critical. The offense is not bad, and we are winning games. We are playing 9 and you’re not happy. Defense is playing well, but you still want to “mix it up”. When are you ever happy?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I haven’t insulted you. I’m seeing improvement. You think Frank Howard is not better than he was as a freshman? I think that’s hard to argue. Sidibe has shown some post moves he didn’t have last year. Instead of relying solely on stats, watch the games. Battle is certainly better. Chukwu is better than he was when he came in. Marek is becoming a better shooter. Brissett is finishing better. The team seems to be getting better. I think the team will continue to get better.

Now, they may not have improved to YOUR standards, but they are certainly improving. Again, it takes time. This is not PR stuff. I just think you’re way off base, and your constant, repetitive criticism of JB is personal. It’s tired. We are playing better and you’re still critical. The offense is not bad, and we are winning games. We are playing 9 and you’re not happy. Defense is playing well, but you still want to “mix it up”. When are you ever happy?

Agreed on Frank, Sid, Marek. Jury is still out on Brissett. I'm leaving it at that.

I think if we are to have this discussion, we need to include the kids brought in that got sent away as well. They were players here that weren't developed, or perhaps they shouldn't have been brought in.

 

[NateW]

You can think what you want and I will respectfully disagree.
I think his midrange game is just as good as last year.
Having Hughes as a 4th threat on the floor has made him take less bad shots which affects shooting percentages.

Since you are the statboy...

17-18
FG% .399
2pt FG% .452
3pt FG% .322

18-19
FG% .457
2pt FG% .523
3pt FG% .296

Looks pretty definitive to me.

 

[Alsacs]

He had 18 rebounds the other night.

Who knows it that was a blip or not.

You seem to feel that recruiting better players is like going to Costco and picking one out of the shelf.

Your charge of anyone ignoring the need for better pivot players is unfair, unsubstantiated and counter-intuitive. You can only recruit players if they exist, you can find them and they want to come.

Chukwu at Duke was tremendous.
Just like when Tyler Roberson when we last won at Duke. Roberson had a Cameron Indoor record 21 rebounds.
Those outlier performers were key to our victories.
Chukwu is a guy who plays hard and again he is a good kid but we need more offensive threat from the 5 to help the rest of the offense.
If we put non offensive threats on the floor their defenders will sag off them and park in the paint and hurt our penetration.

 

[cuseinseattle]

He got a kid from Maryland [6-9 kid, name escapes me] that we wanted for the class of 2018. Then he got Hamier Wright [meh, but someone we were at least token recruiting]. Greene is frustrating given past history, but when he put out feelers here we told him we weren't interested. Stewart we really wanted.

So, there are four players that we overlapped with Hop / UW. They got all four.

***Please note, this is not a sky-is-falling post, nor an indictment of our recruiting. Just listing the relevant players.

Maryland kid. Do you mean Nate Roberts? I would say Roberts and IS are the two kids. I mean we said no to Quade based on our guard heavy situation and I was never a big Hamier fan and didn't consider us recruiting him seriously but I could miss remember. He also pulled Naz Carter but again we weren't focused on him because he is a 3 that isn't a good shooter.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Nate Roberts. No stats this season. RS?

Once Hameir Wright reclassed, we passed.
Didn't need another last year, with OSB AND Marek AND Hughes sitting out AND Sidibe.
He's been averaging 3 & 3 in 18 minutes/game this year, a slight uptick from his Frosh season.

Plan Z? Whatever - we clearly didn't want or need him after he took the bag to go to UK.
Guard is pretty stacked now.

Zay is the only one of these 4 that really stings.

It should also be the last one, since Hop hasn't been around the East coast schmoozing the future batches of recruits like he had been prior.

Nate Roberts is red shirting. He is really skinny and needs to get stronger and would not have played much this year. A great decision for everyone I think. Kind of like if BJ Johnson had redshirted for syracuse. Anyway I digress.

 

[Alsacs]

Since you are the statboy...

17-18
FG% .399
2pt FG% .452
3pt FG% .322

18-18
FG% .457
2pt FG% .523
3pt FG% .296

Looks pretty definitive to me.

Last year Battle shot 347 2 pt FGA.
This year Battle has shot 174 2 FGA.
He is on pace for less than last year.
I know you can understand this because last year we didn’t Hughes or the bench he had to take more shots.
With more depth he has taken less shots thus his percentage is up.
I mean it’s not hard to figure out.

 

[orangecuse]

Maryland kid. Do you mean Nate Roberts? I would say Roberts and IS are the two kids. I mean we said no to Quade based on our guard heavy situation and I was never a big Hamier fan and didn't consider us recruiting him seriously but I could miss remember. He also pulled Naz Carter but again we weren't focused on him because he is a 3 that isn't a good shooter.

Nate Roberts appears to be the real deal. What a frosh, and a world of potential. I watched him twice the past week or so, in the MD game at OSU where he was terrific and helped the Terps bury the Bucks. The other night against MSU, he wasn't as noticeable, but still had some good moments. I sure wish we had him this year, as he no doubt, IMO, would start over our two centers.

Edit: Just saw the redshirt remark. Okay, not Roberts then, but #25 for the Terps (who's a frosh) and is from one of our hot recruiting spots, Baltimore.

 

[NateW]

Last year Battle shot 347 2 pt FGA.
This year Battle has shot 174 2 FGA.
He is on pace for less than last year.
I know you can understand this because last year we didn’t Hughes or the bench he had to take more shots.
With more depth he has taken less shots thus his percentage is up.
I mean it’s not hard to figure out.

So when arguing with ForCuseSake on the NFL board about Pats record vs other divisions you want to extrapolate smaller data in order to win the argument. But in this case, we should not extrapolate the smaller data so you can win the argument?

Got it.

 

[moqui]

I would take 13 scholarships lost over 4 years to keep the NC.
The lost NC is one of the harshest penalties ever.

be that as it may it doesn't change the fact that one set of penalties targets the past and the other targets the future.

and you cannot criticize the past 4 years without weighing impact of those penalties.

or you can but it signals you as a poster not to be taken seriously