This is a great finals...

[Cowtown]

If anyone thinks the ref, in whose primary zone Ginobli was fouled at the end of game 6, doesn't know the league wanted a seventh game, they're mistaken. It's that kind of understanding that's cultivated in their officials. I believe they feel San Antonio has had its run, and there's more money to be made in a new direction, and that direction necessarily involves Miami. For what good is their "star maker machinery" if the biggest stars don't win?

I attended a refereeing clinic in which Dave Libbey (worked several Final Fours) said, "Before you make a call, what does it have to with basketball?" Well, borrowing from that philosophy, in the NBA it's "What does it have to do with making the most money?" And if you don't understand that, you won't be an NBA ref for very long.

 

[HOFCeluck]

If anyone thinks the ref, in whose primary zone Ginobli was fouled at the end of game 6, doesn't know the league wanted a seventh game, they're mistaken. It's that kind of understanding that's cultivated in their officials.

I attended a refereeing clinic in which Dave Libbey (worked several Final Fours) said, "Before you make a call, what does it have to with basketball?" Well, borrowing from that philosophy, in the NBA it's "What does it have to do with making the most money?" And if you don't understand that, you won't be an NBA ref for very long.

disregarding the fact that he traveled, which makes the whole thing moot...

nobody is getting that call, whether it's manu, lebron, wade, or Michael Carter Williams.

rumeal robinson tho...

 

[Cowtown]

disregarding the fact that he traveled, which makes the whole thing moot...

Traveling's not against their rules, as we're all abundantly aware.

 

[rrlbees]

If anyone thinks the ref, in whose primary zone Ginobli was fouled at the end of game 6, doesn't know the league wanted a seventh game, they're mistaken. It's that kind of understanding that's cultivated in their officials. I believe they feel San Antonio has had its run, and there's more money to be made in a new direction, and that direction necessarily involves Miami. For what good is their "star maker machinery" if the biggest stars don't win?

I attended a refereeing clinic in which Dave Libbey (worked several Final Fours) said, "Before you make a call, what does it have to with basketball?" Well, borrowing from that philosophy, in the NBA it's "What does it have to do with making the most money?" And if you don't understand that, you won't be an NBA ref for very long.

When I get a chance I'll have to try and find that video of a ref telling Iverson he was going to make bogus calls.


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[Knicks411]

The thing with the Manu call, is that it was in OT of the game. They waited an awful long time to fix it if they were banking on that.

Aren't the draft lotteries overseen by independent auditors now?

The Donaghy thing wasn't good for the league though.

 

[rrlbees]

disregarding the fact that he traveled, which makes the whole thing moot...

nobody is getting that call, whether it's manu, lebron, wade, or Michael Carter Williams.

rumeal robinson tho...

Did bosh foul hat shooter?


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[Knicks411]

I'm fine with the Bosh thing being a no-call

 

[Knicks411]

Also, reffing at the NBA level is so hard, there are so many judgement calls, you can make it tell any story you want.

Miami took 3 FT in the first half, the Spurs took 15, and Bosh was in foul trouble. That doesn't fit the narrative though.

 

[Cowtown]

I'm fine with the Bosh thing being a no-call

I understand why the NBA won't allow that to be called, especially there, but the truth is, he gained an advantage/created a disadvantage with the contact.

 

[OrangeDW]

disregarding the fact that he traveled, which makes the whole thing moot...

nobody is getting that call, whether it's manu, lebron, wade, or Michael Carter Williams.

rumeal robinson tho...

Not to mention that it was all but over in regulation. The Spurs(or any team in that situation) probably win 95% of the time, if not more. It took a miracle comeback, otherwise the Spurs win in 6.

They did a pretty crappy job of fixing it, if that's a case. If I'm ever out of tinfoil, I'll know to come to Syracusefan and post "OT-can anyone lend me some tinfoil?" I'll be loaded up in no time.

 

[moqui]

The thing with the Manu call, is that it was in OT of the game. They waited an awful long time to fix it if they were banking on that.

Aren't the draft lotteries overseen by independent auditors now?

The Donaghy thing wasn't good for the league though.

yep . . . if "the fix was in," then they would have called a foul a few seconds earlier, on Danny Green on Lebron's breakaway attempt that ended up being a turnover instead. It would have been the wrong call, but it would have been plausible - Green had his hand on Lebron's hip and he swiped his arm coming down. Lebron would have gone to the line with a chance to put the Heat up 3.

 

[Ward]

What is fixed is how the stars get most of the calls, because the creation of stars what generates the revenue. For if the public as a whole were to realize that the league's highest paid players lack many of the skills that even an average high school kid has, who would pay to watch 'em? For the NBA is less about basketball than it is about making money with a basketball.

It makes sense that the best players get fouled the most. They're the best, meaning they're the toughest to guard, so people generally foul them more to stop them compared to a guy who sucks. And yea they get the benefit of the doubt in some calls. Just like when I go to my local rec league there are guys who are pretty good and have been playing in the league for years who get the benefit of the doubt on calls. Same can be said when people complain Brady gets protected by refs in the NFL, or how an all star pitcher might get a called strike over a journeyman hitter. It happens in every sport so its kinda unfair to single out the NBA for that.

As far as them lacking the skills, if you were to go to an NBA game able to see these guys mess around in warm ups or get shots up you'd be amazed how good they are.

 

[Ward]

Also, reffing at the NBA level is so hard, there are so many judgement calls, you can make it tell any story you want.

Miami took 3 FT in the first half, the Spurs took 15, and Bosh was in foul trouble. That doesn't fit the narrative though.

Agree 100%. In my opinion basketball is the toughest sport to officiate because everything is a judgment call. That's at any level. Then compound that with how big and fast the guys in the NBA are and its a really tough job.

 

[General20]

yep . . . if "the fix was in," then they would have called a foul a few seconds earlier, on Danny Green on Lebron's breakaway attempt that ended up being a turnover instead. It would have been the wrong call, but it would have been plausible - Green had his hand on Lebron's hip and he swiped his arm coming down. Lebron would have gone to the line with a chance to put the Heat up 3.

Forget that. If the free throw disparity was even (instead of being huge in San Antonio's favor even though James drives to the basket more and with greater efficiency than the whole Spurs team put together) Miami wins the series in 5 or possibly 6.

If the fix was in, nobody but an irrational LeBron hater could say the fix was in Miami's favor (of course the fix was not in for either team, the Spurs just got the benefited more from the way the games were called).

 

[Knicks411]

Not to mention that it was all but over in regulation. The Spurs(or any team in that situation) probably win 95% of the time, if not more. It took a miracle comeback, otherwise the Spurs win in 6.

They did a pretty crappy job of fixing it, if that's a case. If I'm ever out of tinfoil, I'll know to come to Syracusefan and post "OT-can anyone lend me some tinfoil?" I'll be loaded up in no time.

For sure, a 5 point lead with 28 seconds or whatever to go is more than 95% to win I bbet

 

[Cowtown]

It makes sense that the best players get fouled the most. They're the best, meaning they're the toughest to guard, so people generally foul them more to stop them compared to a guy who sucks. And yea they get the benefit of the doubt in some calls. Just like when I go to my local rec league there are guys who are pretty good and have been playing in the league for years who get the benefit of the doubt on calls. Same can be said when people complain Brady gets protected by refs in the NFL, or how an all star pitcher might get a called strike over a journeyman hitter. It happens in every sport so its kinda unfair to single out the NBA for that.

As far as them lacking the skills, if you were to go to an NBA game able to see these guys mess around in warm ups or get shots up you'd be amazed how good they are.

Please. Game 6 was not my first rodeo.

 

[MikeSU02]

Are people really thinking the fix was in for Miami? Wow. Would love to hear your thoughts on the moon landing.

This series is going to be tough to top. The number of hall of famers, the respect for each other, the level of basketball... all incredible.

I know a series like this doesn't happen every year, but it is the exact reason why I love the NBA game so much more than the college game.

 

[Cowtown]

Are people really thinking the fix was in for Miami? Wow. Would love to hear your thoughts on the moon landing.

This series is going to be tough to top. The number of hall of famers, the respect for each other, the level of basketball... all incredible.

I know a series like this doesn't happen every year, but it is the exact reason why I love the NBA game so much more than the college game.

I don't know whether it's fixed in the denotative sense, but I firmly believe it's overly manipulated toward a desired goal, which is larger than the result of an individual game. And do you really think Donaghy was the only guy doing what he did?

 

[MikeSU02]

I don't know whether it's fixed in the denotative sense, but I firmly believe it's overly manipulated toward a desired goal, which is larger than the result of an individual game. And do you really think Donaghy was the only guy doing what he did?

I don't think Donaghy is the only crooked ref in the NBA, but I think there are crooked refs across all sports, in some capacity.

The Heat have the best player alive and one of the top 10 and arguably the top 5 players of all time. Lebron should go to the FT line at least 2x as much as he does, but he doesn't get every foul call because of his abilities plus freakish size. He is so much better than the people guarding him, they basically have to foul him to have a chance.

In the NBA talent wins titles, period. We have seen that over a very long period of time. Outside of the 2004 Detroit team, every winner in the modern era has had an elite superstar on the team.

I don't know why it's so hard to believe that the Heat earned this title fair and square. Lebron is the best player in the world, by far.

 

[Cowtown]

The Heat have the best player alive and one of the top 10 and arguably the top 5 players of all time. Lebron should go to the FT line at least 2x as much as he does, but he doesn't get every foul call because of his abilities plus freakish size. He is so much better than the people guarding him, they basically have to foul him to have a chance.

I've seen Jerry West, Walt Frazier, Wilt Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, Oscar Robertson, Bill Russell, Sam Jones, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Scottie Pippin, Michael Jordan, Elgin Baylor, Dave Bing, Julius Erving, Connie Hawkins, Pete Maravich, Hakeem Olajuwon, Lenny Wilkins, and even Bob Cousy near the end of his career. I don't see LBJ in that mix yet, let alone one of the top 5 of all time. Those are just the ones I can think of, and I didn't even mention Jerry Lucas, Dave DeBuscherre or Bill Bradley, or Clyde Drexler. But that's just me, and I've always believed in "different strokes for different folks." Carry on

 

[Ward]

Please. Game 6 was not my first rodeo.

I'm not sure what that's even supposed to imply or refer to.

 

[Cowtown]

I'm not sure what that's even supposed to imply or refer to.

Okay, what the heck. I've been down to the gym more than once or twice. I've played and reffed basketball at the college mens level, and coached HS boys. Now, I'm not Jay Bilas, but I have a reasonable idea what's going on out there. So when I tell you what I think I see, it's not based on one game. How's that?

 

[thebigeast44]

I think you are just upset that the team you were rooting for lost (or, more likely, that the team you were rooting against, won)

The Spurs are a team that most people believe had their window closed three years ago. Pop took them all the way to the closing minutes of Game 7 against the best team in the world. There isn't another coach in the nation who could have done more. Sure, he came up short, but it was his philosophy, experience and tactics that got them there; to think he would throw all that out the window precisely in Winning Time is just absurd.

I was not rooting for either team. I just wanted to see a great series and I saw it. But if Pop was any other coach, he would be getting killed for many of the coaching decisions he made. Simple as that.

 

[Orangezoo]

at the end of the day the nba is a business with thousands of investors. The largest batch of investors are those who buy jerseys and team gear as well as tv packages and tickets. Fixed or not- you have to protect the business and keep your investors happy and in a mood to keep investing...whether that ends in bias officiating etc is debateable but its plausibility can be no worse than 50-50 considering the money at stake..

 

[Knicks411]

I've seen Jerry West, Walt Frazier, Wilt Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, Oscar Robertson, Bill Russell, Sam Jones, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Scottie Pippin, Michael Jordan, Elgin Baylor, Dave Bing, Julius Erving, Connie Hawkins, Pete Maravich, Hakeem Olajuwon, Lenny Wilkins, and even Bob Cousy near the end of his career. I don't see LBJ in that mix yet, let alone one of the top 5 of all time. Those are just the ones I can think of, and I didn't even mention Jerry Lucas, Dave DeBuscherre or Bill Bradley, or Clyde Drexler. But that's just me, and I've always believed in "different strokes for different folks." Carry on

You think all of those guys are better than Lebron? Lenny Wilkens?

Interesting. I get the idea that Lebron is still mid career so it's hard to compare him to the best of the best when he has so much of his career left to play, but I'm pretty confident saying he's a better player than Sam Jones or Lenny Wilkens. I mean come on, the guy has won 4 MVP's and 2 titles. He's accomplished things that only Jordan and Russell have done. I think we can safely move him ahead of Dave Bing or Lenny Wilkens or Connie Hawkins or Pistol Pete.